STOP AHMEDI BASHING

[Armstrong]

well then.. if state decides that only muslims can be president, then state also need to decide who is muslim..

Technically that isn't very difficult - Oneness of God & the Finality of the Prophethood is something that has been, almost, ubiquitously accepted as far back as one can recall !

The Shias, the Sunnis & sects within these sects & even some of the more, shall we say, unorthodox sects within these sects, accept it as such !

 

[livingdead]

Technically that isn't very difficult - Oneness of God & the Finality of the Prophethood is something that has been, almost, ubiquitously accepted as far back as one can recall !

The Shias, the Sunnis & sects within these sects & even some of the more, shall we say, unorthodox sects within these sects, accept it as such !

so you agree that state should decide who is muslim ...

 

[Armstrong]

so you agree that state should decide who is muslim ...

Where did I say that ?

I said that there is, almost, a unanimous consensus on who a Muslim is & who isn't !

But why the need to decide that ?

If we have a group of capitalist sitting about who range from State Capitalism, the Nordic Model, Free-Market Capitalism & Techno-Capitalism, one doesn't ask or determines 'Who is a 'real' Capitalist'.

Instead you ask them to put forth their views & if something needs to be Institutionalized at a collective level - You let the democratic process work its magic !

If you don't need to Institutionalize it - Then why bother ? It doesn't matter what a person is doing in his private & personal life !

Hence why I've never really been able to understand the whole notion of 'ideological' states beyond 'democracy & pluralism' !

 

[livingdead]

Where did I say that ?

I said that there is, almost, a unanimous consensus on who a Muslim is & who isn't !

But why the need to decide that ?

If we have a group of capitalist sitting about who range from State Capitalism, the Nordic Model, Free-Market Capitalism & Techno-Capitalism, one doesn't ask or determines 'Who is a 'real' Capitalist'.

Instead you ask them to put forth their views & if something needs to be Institutionalized at a collective level - You let the democratic process work its magic !

If you don't need to Institutionalize it - Then why bother ? It doesn't matter what a person is doing in his private & personal life !

Hence why I've never really been able to understand the whole notion of 'ideological' states beyond 'democracy & pluralism' !

wo sab theek hai... do you agree the law that president of pakistan should be muslim only?

 

[Armstrong]

wo sab theek hai... do you agree the law that president of pakistan should be muslim only?

Such positions are always 'qualified' by something ! Age, nationality, some measure of academic competence etc.

They make sense; religious preference, in my opinion, does not !

So no I wouldn't want it as such !

 

[SHAMK9]

Well why cant we just say we are muslims. Forget sunni, shia or ahmadis. Allah will decide our fate. Lets all be the most patriotic Pakistanis working hard for Pakistan.

Because that would be a tolerant thing to do which most Pakistanis aren't on this forum.

 

[forcetrip]

TTP men are khawarij .............

Say Kafir from now on. I somehow lose the severity of their crimes by calling them khawariji.

 

[Luftwaffe]

I for one find Ahmedi people better Muslims and better Pakistanis than most of us who claim to be Pakistani Muslims.

They are pious, support their communities generously and have been Patriotic Pakistanis..

I respect you and I Think bashing of people from all communities should stop BUT you are dead wrong about Ahmedi being muslims they are productive people of the society working in all fields inside/outside Pakistan. Now I usually don't get into this religious debate but know their belief system before tagging them muslims they are ahmedi and that is who they are simple. People I have encountered a moron guy from this sect who was around 38 and tried to insult my father of 60 upon which I had to hand him over his shyt.

Two Things you need to learn and study: PIOUS And MUSLIMS

You don't know the meaning of both and both don't apply to them. Hell pious doesn't even apply to me or you it is rare to achieve the badge of piousness in the eye of Allah.

 

[Patriots]

Say Kafir from now on. I somehow lose the severity of their crimes by calling them khawariji.

Ok plz guide me how ????

 

[oiltrader]

Please do read the following Qadiani (Ahmadiyya) writings and decide for yourself.

Muslims declared Kafir (Non-Muslim):

"Allah has revealed to me that he who does not follow me and does not give me his oath of allegiance and remains in opposition is disobeying the will of Allah and His Rasul and is Jahannami (doomed to Hell)."
(Collection of Posters, Vol. 3, P. 275; Mirza Ghulam Qadiani)
"Question: Huzoor-e-aali (Respected Mirza Ghulam) has mentioned in thousands of places that it is not at all right to call Kafir a Kalima-go (someone who recites the Kalima) and an Ahle-Qibla. It is quite obvious that except those Momineen who become Kafir by calling you (Mirza Ghulam) a Kafir, no one becomes a Kafir by merely not accepting you. However, you have now written to Abdul Hakeem Khan that anyone who has received my message and has not accepted me is no longer a Muslim. There is contradiction between this statement and your statements in previous books. Earlier in Tiriaq-ul-Quloob etc you had mentioned that no one becomes Kafir by not accepting you; now you are writing that by rejecting me he becomes a Kafir?!

Answer: This is strange that you consider the person who rejects me and the person who calls me Kafir as two different persons, whereas in the eyes of God he is the same type; because he who does not accept me is because he considers me a fabricator..."
(Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 22, P. 167, Mirza Ghulam Qadiani)
"All those Muslims who do not enter the fold of the Promised Messiah, whether or not they have heard of Messiah (Mirza Ghulam Qadiani) are considered Kafirs and are beyond the pale of Islam."
(Aeena-e-Sadaqat, P. 9/35, By Bashir-uddin Mahmud)
"God has revealed it to me that the person who did not believe in me after having heard about me is not a Muslim."
(Al-Fazl, Qadian, Jan 15, 1935 - Al-Hukum, 4:24, Mirza Ghulam Qadiani)
"It has been revealed to me that the person who did not follow me and did not enter into my fold, is disobedient and as such, should be thrown into Hell."
(Miyar-ul-Akhyar, Vol. 9, P. 27, Mirza Ghulam Qadiani)
"He (Mirza Ghulam Qadiani) has regarded him as an infidel who knows him to be truthful and does not belie him in speech but has not yet entered the fold."
(Tashi-ul-Azhan, 6:4, Apr. 1911, Miyan Mahmood Qadiani -
Aqaid-e-Ahmadia, P. 108)
"A man once asked the first caliph of the Messiah (Hakim Nuruddin Sahib) whether it was possible to attain salvation without having faith in mirza Sahib? He replied: 'If the Word of God is based on truth, it is not possible to attain salvation without having faith in Mirza Sahib."
(Aa'ina-e-Sadaqat, P. 25, Miyan Mahmood Ahmad Qadiani)
"In Lucknow, I (Mir Mahmood Ahmad Qadiani) met a man who was a great scholar. He said: 'Those are your enemies who make the propaganda that you condemn people as infidels. I can not believe that such broad minded people as you are can indulge in such things.' The man was making this remark to Sheikh Yaqub Ali Qadiani. I asked him to tell the man that we really believe them as infidels. The man was astonished to hear this."
(Anwar-e-Khilafat, Miyan Mahmood Ahmad Qadiani)

Seems to me Mirza Ghulam prophecies are right.Ahmaddiyya muslim community is flourishing and prospering across the world ,while the mainstream muslims are facing poverty,genocide,infighting with wahabbis , imperialism of USA/West/Israel.

Ahmedis have averted such a fate . Seems to me Mirza Ghulam was right.Ahmedis are Allah's chosen muslims.

 

[Pakistanisage]

I respect you and I Think bashing of people from all communities should stop BUT you are dead wrong about Ahmedi being muslims they are productive people of the society working in all fields inside/outside Pakistan. Now I usually don't get into this religious debate but know their belief system before tagging them muslims they are ahmedi and that is who they are simple. People I have encountered a moron guy from this sect who was around 38 and tried to insult my father of 60 upon which I had to hand him over his shyt.

Two Things you need to learn and study: PIOUS And MUSLIMS

You don't know the meaning of both and both don't apply to them. Hell pious doesn't even apply to me or you it is rare to achieve the badge of piousness in the eye of Allah.

Regardless of whether you consider them Muslim or not, they don't deserve to be harassed and murdered in their places of Worship nor should their Human and Civil rights be violated.

They should be treated equally as any other Pakistani and anyone violating their Civil rights should be prosecuted as per the Law and Constitution of Pakistan.

Just because you don't consider them Muslims does not give you or any of your cohorts to consider it an open season on violating their Civil rights given to them by the Constitution of Pakistan. That is all I am saying.

 

[Star Wars]

This thread turned into something which the OP did not intent .....

 

[Jaanbaz]

I agree with @[MENTION=3573]PakistaniExile Let Pakistanis discuss the ''Qadiani'' problem. Seems like they have a lot of spare time. Pakistan is so perfect there is rivers of honey and milk flowing but only ****** Qadianis, Christians and Hindus are polluting the Land of Pure. Once you get rid of them i am sure you will have your kingdom of heaven.
On a serious note i hope and pray Pakistanis open their eyes this same ideology of hate is pushing Pakistan into a failed state among countries like Somalia, Afghanistan and Sudan.

 

[Jazzbot]

Islam starts when a person firmly believes that there is no God except Allah, and Muhammad (peace be upon him) is Last Prophet sent by God. Anyone diverting from it for even an inch is not Muslims, he is free to divert or innovate or follow whatever he feels better, but then he must NOT call himself a Muslim and must NOT portray himself as Muslim representatives. The sooner Ahmadies will accept this, the better it will be for them and as well as for all Pakistanis.

 

[qamar1990]

I am talking about various threads that demean and vilify this community on PDF as well as other Pakistani Forums.

I for one find Ahmedi people better Muslims and better Pakistanis than most of us who claim to be Pakistani Muslims.

They are pious, support their communities generously and have been Patriotic Pakistanis.

We give more respect to those Taliban Scum Bags from Fata who want to blow up our little children than we give to these people who do not attack us.

The only Pakistani Nobel Laureate was a Ahmedi and inspite of the insults we hurled on him, insisted to be buried in Pakistan.

We as a Nation and as a people have NO SHAME AND HONOUR.

i have no problem with them but if they call themselves muslims then i will have a problem, they can do what ever they want but i think they need to accept that they are out of the fold of islam according to us, but other then that its not a problem at all , they are good people indeed and good pakistanis as well.