STOP AHMEDI BASHING

[TheFlyingPretzel]

I hear a lot about what you read in your holy books that were written by mortals about this group. Can you tell us what beliefs pertaining to lifestyle, conduct, content of character by ahmadis are unacceptable for those who oppose them?

for example ( am being just a bit exaggerated to make the point, please DO NOT take it as literally) : they believe in child slaughter, they believe in being rude to others, they believe in not helping out the unfortunate, they believe in only their way or highway, they are bigoted against other religions, they burn holy books, they draw cartoons.... what is it that they do as a result of their beliefs that is unacceptable on a humanitarian level?

It is not there actions which I call to question. For all its worth, there are probably better Ahmadis than there are Muslims. I happen to know a few, in a personal capacity, and I will testify that they are as compassionate and upright as other good people. Without renouncing the foregoing, however, I must emphasize as I stressed earlier that my misgivings with the Ahmadi faith is a matter, essentially, of textual interpretation as is their matter with mainstream Muslims.

It is what Ghulam Ahmad sought to do, not the creation of a new religion like Nanak, but the amendment of an existing one which alienated him from the followers of that faith. Ghulam's mission to hijack Islam and replace the 1,400 year-old Prophet who brought the original message to the people did not sink well with the Muslims of the time or the perennial Islamic texts which shun the possibility of another Prophet of Islam and call for his elimination. The alienation turned to rivalry which led to rejection and subsequently persecution of his followers, which has persisted since.

As it has therefore become evident, it is not the actions of the followers which are in dispute, but rather the very faith they believe in. It is a sorry state of affairs that they are treated as subhuman and not accorded the same rights that an ordinary Pakistani enjoys, but the onus for the persecution although understandably on the persecutor is also on the persecuted. All that an Ahmadi needs to do, to stop being persecuted is distance himself from the teachings of the Ghulam and become a Muslim. It really is not that hard, maybe for the adamant Ahmadi, yes, but not for the sensible, educated, understanding follower of the Ahmadi faith.

 

[K-Xeroid]

@K-Xeroid You still have not called ANYONE who blows himself up a Kafir. Be it a shia or a japanese or a taliban or a srilankan. Call them Kafir before we proceed to the topic of labeling people who do not do things that hurt and affect us as muslims.

Don't you understand ? The topic Of Qadyanis is Old and much of study and research is completed while the concept of self blowing is new and it was done by our own soldiers in past in Chawinda or what Rashid Minhas had done , Blowing oneself is used as strategy in war . I'm not capable enough to understand this matter in depth . but this matter should have been discussed with all perspective. You cannot compare War situation with a General situation.

 

[Armstrong]

Ahmadis r not part of basic Islam thats a fact.

I don't think that we should give anyone the right to do decide that !

Waisee ironically enough the Ahmediya Movement is further divided into the Jammat Ahmediya (Overwhelming Majority) & the Lahori Jammat (Minority) - the Lahori Jammat split away from the larger body & maintained that they - the successors to Mirza Sahib - had started corrupting the Movement because Mirza Ghulam Ahmed wasn't a Prophet but a Reformer (an Islamic Scholar if you will) & that his use of the word Nabi & Rasool was metaphorical as he himself alluded to that !

Either considers the other in the wrong !

 

[DarkPrince]

they are NOT part of any Islam.

What is basic Islam? there is ONE Islam and every sect of Islam believes in finality of Prophethood.

Why in the entire world only qadyanis have altered Quran?whereas throughout the Muslim world QURAN IS ONE you wont find any alteration.

jana baji all i'm saying that Ahmadism is a modified version of Islam

which is forbidden in Islam

 

[TheFlyingPretzel]

Correct your history mate. Masalmah was killed because he led an open rebellion against the State and refused to pay taxes. Pakistanis never read anything themselves just listen to any one claiming to be Scholar.

Musaylimah, who is reported as having been a skilled magician,[3] dazzled the crowd with miracles. He could put an egg in a bottle; he could cut off the feathers of a bird and then stick them on so the bird would fly again; and he used this skill to persuade the people that he was divinely gifted.

Musaylimah shared verses purporting them to have been revelations from God and told the crowd that Muhammad had shared power with him. Musaylimah even referred to himself as Rahman,[1] which suggests that he may have attributed some divinity to himself. Thereafter, some of the people accepted him as a prophet alongside Muhammad. Gradually the influence and authority of Musaylimah increased with the people of his tribe. Musaylimah sought to abolish prayer and freely allow sex and Alcohol consumption.
He also took to addressing gatherings as an apostle of Allah just like Muhammad, and would compose verses and offer them, as Quranic revelations. Most of his verses extolled the superiority of his tribe, the Bani Hanifa, over the Quraysh.
Musaylimah also proposed to share power over Arabia with Muhammad.

Then one day, in late 10 Hijri, he wrote to Muhammad:
"From Musaylimah, Messenger of God, to Muhammad, Messenger of God. Salutations to you. I have been given a share with you in this matter. Half the earth belongs to us and half to the Quraish. But the Quraish are people who transgress."

Ibn Kathīr, Ismāʻīl ibn ʻUmar (2000), Mubārakfūrī, Ṣafī al-Raḥmān, ed., al-Miṣbāḥ al-munīr fī tahdhīb tafsīr Ibn Kathīr 1, Riyadh, Saʻudi Arabia: Darussalam, p. 68

The Life of the Prophet Muhammad: Al-Sira Al-Nabawiyya By Ibn Kathir, Trevor Le Gassick, Muneer Fareed, pg. 69

The Life of the Prophet Muhammad: Al-Sira Al-Nabawiyya By Ibn Kathir, Trevor Le Gassick, Muneer Fareed, pg. 67

Musaylimah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

After which his followers amassed an army and besieged the Muslims of Arabia who shut him up for good.

 

[K-Xeroid]

I don't think that we should give anyone the right to do decide that !

Waisee ironically enough the Ahmediya Movement is further divided into the Jammat Ahmediya (Overwhelming Majority) & the Lahori Jammat (Minority) - the Lahori Jammat split away from the larger body & maintained that they - the successors to the Mirza Sahib - had started corrupting the Movement because Mirza Ghulam Ahmed wasn't a Prophet but a Reformer (an Islamic Scholar if you will) & that his use of the word Nabi & Rasool was metaphorical as he himself alluded to that !

Either considers the other in the wrong !

We still have rights to save our opinion individually , but In Mutual matters Nations have rights to decide what is right . Again the question started from faith here . You understand their are some strict commandments for Muslims which cannot be denied and if the Limitations are crossed then you would be no more remain a Muslim.

 

[Armstrong]

We still have rights to save our opinion individually , but In Mutual matters Nations have rights to decide what is right . Again the question started from faith here . You understand their are some strict commandments for Muslims which cannot be denied and if the Limitations are crossed then you would be no more remain a Muslim.

Individually - Yes !

Collectively - I don't think the State should decide who a Muslim is or isn't !

 

[Spring Onion]

jana baji all i'm saying that Ahmadism is a modified version of Islam

which is forbidden in Islam

Brother there is no room for modification of Basics of Islam. Its called alteration which is NOT at all acceptable.

If so tomorrow you can see Christian Muslims/Jewish Muslims and Oh not so far Hindu Muslims

 

[K-Xeroid]

Individually - Yes !

Collectively - I don't think the State should decide who a Muslim is or isn't !

A state which created in the name of muslims should have some responsibilities , Those sacrifices from our ancestors were made for a Protector state. Their are some muslims rights too.

 

[Spring Onion]

Individually - Yes !

Collectively - I don't think the State should decide who a Muslim is or isn't !

State or anyone can NOT decide who is Muslim or non Muslim.

Islam is very clear about it.

we all know that one of the basics of being Muslims is belief in finaly of Prophethood

 

[Armstrong]

A state which created in the name of muslims should have some responsibilities , Those sacrifices from our ancestors were made for a Protector state. Their are some muslims rights too.

Indeed, those responsibilities are - the Maintenance of Law & Order, the Administration of State Institutions & the availability of Justice !

Just as in a group of a Liberatarian Socialist, a Social Democrat & a Marxist-Lennist, I wouldn't presume to tell who was a 'real' Socialist/Communist or not but to instead let each put forth their views in a pluralistic setting & then, if there is to be the Institutionalization of something, let the majority decide ! Similarly I wouldn't presume to tell who a 'real' Muslim is or isn't in a group of Sunnis, Shias, Ahmedis & the many sects within these sects !

State or anyone can NOT decide who is Muslim or non Muslim.

But didn't the State do the exact same thing when it declared Ahmedis as Non Muslims ?

Islam is very clear about it.

we all know that one of the basics of being Muslims is belief in finaly of Prophethood

I know !

 

[livingdead]

Individually - Yes !

Collectively - I don't think the State should decide who a Muslim is or isn't !

if a state decides to discriminate between muslim and non muslim, then state needs to decide who will be called muslims and who wont.

Is it not an eligibility criteria for post of president of pakistan?

 

[Spring Onion]

But didn't the State do the exact same thing when it declared Ahmedis as Non Muslims ?



I know !

The State did NOT declare any shia as NON Muslims ))) why? despite many extremists kill them and wrongly delcare them non Muslims. You know the answer to why only qadyanis are declared NON Muslims Because they are NON Muslims

 

[Armstrong]

if a state decides to discriminate between muslim and non muslim, then state needs to decide who will be called muslims and who wont.

Of course ! Hence a State should not discriminate between Muslims & Non Muslims.

Is it not an eligibility criteria for post of president of pakistan?

It is indeed !

The State did NOT declare any shia as NON Muslims ))) why? despite many extremists kill them and wrongly delcare them non Muslims. You know the answer to why only qadyanis are declared NON Muslims Because they are NON Muslims

The State had no business doing either !

 

[Patriots]

The day you issue a fatwa by declaring TTP or any Taliban who get people to blow themselves up as straight up Kafirs, that will be the day I will revisit your hypocritical stance on calling someone else a Kafir or a non muslim. Till then, enjoy your face.

TTP men are khawarij .............