Stable gov and huge saving are the key for rapid economy growth

[vi-va]

Without stable leadership(a strong gov), long-term planning is almost impossible. In western style democracy, short term election dominate domestic policy, which tends to spending the current money instead of saving and long-term investment.

In the opposite, China political system push economy growth by 5 years planning, now it's the end of the 13th 5 years planning since 1949. China gov makes plans for the next 5-30 years, no matter who is in charge.

Western countries looted every countries on earth in 19th century to achieve industrialization. That's how they gain their first pot of gold. Developing countries can only gain first pot of gold by saving unless you are rich oil countries. Western media just don't want people see the cold truth.

When we talk about saving, it means a lot of sacrifice. China sacrificed a lot in Chairman Mao's era to achieve industrialization. Not surprisingly, Chairman Mao was demonize by western media for decades and people buy it. Basically, no sacrifices no industrialization for developing countries.

China took loan from USSR and World Bank as well, but most of the investment come from ordinary people's saving. The same thing happened in Japan and South Korea, they really saved a lot in 1950s - 1990s.

If your gov can't sacrifice 1-2 generations and remain in charge, take a loan as first pot of gold.

If you don't want to take a loan, the whole nation and ordinary people must have the determination to sacrifice 1-2 generations for saving. Then you get the money to invest infrastructure, factories and R&D.

There is no other way around, my dear Pakistan friends.

 

[Abdussamad]

The Chinese approach was very different from Pakistan's. Like other communist countries you guys spent a lot on education and health. You understood that human resources were your greatest strength so you developed that area. Pakistan spends the least on health and education in the region. Our literacy rate is just 57%. So first we have this problem.

Second we don't have law enforcement in our country so our borders aren't secure. Smuggling is rampant as are illicit capital flows. Because they can't control capital flows they allow people to buy and sell foreign currency openly. The thinking is that if we can't control it at least we should let it happen in the open so we can monitor it. China has capital controls and that's why Chinese households are forced to save with Chinese banks in renminbi. That's not possible in Pakistan where people have more options. So it's hard to mobilise cheap domestic savings.

 

[vi-va]

The Chinese approach was very different from Pakistan's. Like other communist countries you guys spent a lot on education and health. You understood that human resources were your greatest strength so you developed that area. Pakistan spends the least on health and education in the region. Our literacy rate is just 57%. So first we have this problem.

Second we don't have law enforcement in our country so our borders aren't secure. Smuggling is rampant as are illicit capital flows. Because they can't control capital flows they allow people to buy and sell foreign currency openly. The thinking is that if we can't control it at least we should let it happen in the open so we can monitor it. China has capital controls and that's why Chinese households are forced to save with Chinese banks in renminbi. That's not possible in Pakistan where people have more options. So it's hard to mobilise cheap domestic savings.

To be very honest, IMO it's because how a country was born.

Before 1949, China went through 100 years of chaos, inner wars, foreign invasions. China signed hundreds of treaties with invaders, and literally China lost everything, including dignity and pride. Tens of millions of people died, due to hunger, disease and wars.

To save China, Chinese tried all kinds of political systems and ideologies since 1840, democracy, constitutionalism, parliamentarism and theocracy. All of them failed completely except communism. So it's the history choose communism not us. When we drove Japanese out after 30 million people died, communists finally win the war and took the power.

At that time, the CCP has a super strong political leader - Chairman Mao, a very well organized party - CCP, most of the members are survivors of the cruelest war, they have mind of steel. Also, widest support across the 96000000 sq km.

Then new China was born.

Sometimes, I imagined what if Mr. Jinnah lived longer, give him 20 more years to build the country and the party - Pakistan Muslim League, so that Pakistan can have a better start position.

Chairman Mao lived 27 more years after 1949. Literally Mao build everything for this country. Not many people outside China understood how great Mao is. For those who sold out their own countries, westerners tend to give Nobel Peace Prize. Not surprisingly, Mao was demonized for decades in western media.

 

[Fahad Khan 2]

Individual saving can not mobilize that much capital in country like Pakistan. We also started with Five year plan and implemented first few plan but Nationalization of industry in 70 really broke the backbone of economy when instead of deserving people ilitrate poltical workers were put in important position.

Further our politics went inclined down when 85 election were held on non party basis in which goons and trader took over the political scene instead of political parties.

These two development are main reason of Pakistan is in this mess today.

iam seeing some positive development first politics is again coming in political parties hand although dynastic party are major beneficiary of it. Further people of Pakistan are really looking forward for better economical future. CPEC is blessing for us although there are few people who complain about it. but no one give you free lunch.

 

[Abdussamad]

Chairman Mao lived 27 more years after 1949. Literally Mao build everything for this country.

What about the long march forward and the famine that led to? Or the cultural revolution and the wholesale slaughter of your most educated people?

 

[vi-va]

What about the long march forward and the famine that led to? Or the cultural revolution and the wholesale slaughter of your most educated people?

We Chinese never said he is perfect man, indeed he is quit controversial. In China, people openly criticize him for cultural revolution.

But if you really want to understand China, you must compare her history in 18th, 19th and 20th, after that you can have a full picture and see what Mao bring to this country.

It's easy to criticize a great man, especially through western media lens which always tell one sided story. But real history is quit complex.

CCP official statement for him was 70% achievement, 30% mistakes. People today tend to 80%/20% or even higher considering his achievement.

 

[CrazyZ]

Hard work is the only path forward.

1) A central economic plan. East Asian nations should be the role model for any plan. The Anglo-American model needs to end.

2) Internal security. RAW and NDS will not let us prosper. They will attack any green shoots. Lets not be idiotic like under the Zardari regime and ban the death penalty...release terrorists to appease the human rights folks.

3) Human resource development. Technology can help...digital learning. Low end laborers need vocational training to produce higher quality manufactures.

4) Financial sector reforms to increase investment as a percentage of GDP. Foreign investors should be given low tax incentives for capitol FDI.

5) Infrastructure development. Power plants and transportation. CPEC will help greatly with this.

 

[vi-va]

The Chinese approach was very different from Pakistan's. Like other communist countries you guys spent a lot on education and health. You understood that human resources were your greatest strength so you developed that area. Pakistan spends the least on health and education in the region. Our literacy rate is just 57%. So first we have this problem.

Second we don't have law enforcement in our country so our borders aren't secure. Smuggling is rampant as are illicit capital flows. Because they can't control capital flows they allow people to buy and sell foreign currency openly. The thinking is that if we can't control it at least we should let it happen in the open so we can monitor it. China has capital controls and that's why Chinese households are forced to save with Chinese banks in renminbi. That's not possible in Pakistan where people have more options. So it's hard to mobilise cheap domestic savings.

Those things happened as well in China when Nationalist Party Kuo Min Tang was in power in 1911-1945. Actually it was much worse than that. The Kuo Min Tang(KMT) was a weak party base on alliance with oligarchs and landlords.

KMT sold our country out to USSR and USA to win inner war but failed, then CCP come in power. CCP drove Japanese out and USA out. When Khrushchev tried to control China like eastern European countries, CCP said big NO and China was then isolated by both camps in cold war.

Everything comes cons and pros. If China go with KMT, we will have a very weak party, and eventually parliamentary system. China may end up suck USSR and Uncle Sam's D*ck and live. CCP is highly organized party, can control the country. The price is very high, USSR and Uncle Sam see China as enemy, and tried everything they can to destroy this country. As a Chinese, I prefer the second situation.

My point is, you can choose parliamentary system and a weak party in power. You can also choose something like CCP which can control the country. In the second situation you can have completely different ideology, but a strong party which can push the country forward.

If you compare BJP and Congress in India, Congress is something like KMT, and BJP is something like CCP but with completely different ideology.

I think weak party can take the country nowhere in developing country. Even developed countries are facing severe challenges which weak party can do nothing about it, such as UK, Greece, Spain, Portugal and Italy.

Hard work is the only path forward.

1) A central economic plan. East Asian nations should be the role model for any plan. The Anglo-American model needs to end.

2) Internal security. RAW and NDS will not let us prosper. They will attack any green shoots. Lets not be idiotic like under the Zardari regime and ban the death penalty...release terrorists to appease the human rights folks.

3) Human resource development. Technology can help...digital learning. Low end laborers need vocational training to produce higher quality manufactures.

4) Financial sector reforms to increase investment as a percentage of GDP. Foreign investors should be given low tax incentives for capitol FDI.

5) Infrastructure development. Power plants and transportation. CPEC will help greatly with this.

All your points are very well. But you need a strong party as I mentioned above(replying Abdussamad). Things won't happen automatically, Pakistan need a super strong leader, a wise man to sit on the driving seat, and all people should fasten seat belt, because it will be quit bumpy forward.

 

[Yaseen1]

Our most general public is dishonest and only try to get rich by fraud and unfair manner for short term benefits and is not ready for hardwork for longterm results in a legit manner so unless our culture and work environment and ethics are changed we will remain in darkness for long

 

[B.K.N]

The Chinese approach was very different from Pakistan's. Like other communist countries you guys spent a lot on education and health. You understood that human resources were your greatest strength so you developed that area. Pakistan spends the least on health and education in the region. Our literacy rate is just 57%. So first we have this problem.

Second we don't have law enforcement in our country so our borders aren't secure. Smuggling is rampant as are illicit capital flows. Because they can't control capital flows they allow people to buy and sell foreign currency openly. The thinking is that if we can't control it at least we should let it happen in the open so we can monitor it. China has capital controls and that's why Chinese households are forced to save with Chinese banks in renminbi. That's not possible in Pakistan where people have more options. So it's hard to mobilise cheap domestic savings.

But you forgot real thing there isn't any democracy or free media in China

 

[mmkextreme_1]

Our most general public is dishonest and only try to get rich by fraud and unfair manner for short term benefits and is not ready for hardwork for longterm results in a legit manner so unless our culture and work environment and ethics are changed we will remain in darkness for long

This this and this!

Until the awam of Pakistan don't change..one man can't do much on his own.

 

[vi-va]

But you forgot real thing there isn't any democracy or free media in China

It's 2019, not 1919, my friend. and you still use those western concepts to judge China. It's a bit sad.

When you talk about so called "free media", are you talking about WSJ, NYTimes, CNN and Fox? Because those are the main steam media in western world, and everyone knows those are biased and propaganda. There isn't "free media" in real world, because the influence of media depends hugely on the resource they have. The more resource the media has, the more they can manipulate ordinary people and promote their political and economical agenda. Not everyone can identify truth and propaganda, my Pakistan friends.

I am not saying what China is doing is the correct way or best for China and the mass. I am saying it's not black and white. If you live in China long enough, and talk with ordinary people, especially the taxi drivers, you will see the Chinese knew the world much more than the world knew China. We are not fools, we knew exactly what's going on. We learn our political system and culture through history, we knew western media want to break China into pieces, we knew our defects in our political system. But we also knew nothing is perfect, we can only get better through continuing reform and hard working.

When you talk about so call "democracy". We have different standard for "what's democracy". If you mean "parliamentary system", "multilateral parties", and "one man one vote", we are definitely not democracy.

In our Chinese view, democracy is "of the people, by the people, for the people". "parliamentary system", "multilateral parties", and "one man one vote" are just one way to achieve that, but there are other ways of doing it. We Chinese believe "it doesn't matter if a cat is black or white so long as it catches mice." So we did what we believe is right thing to do for our Country. If you compare the achievement between China and India, India was more advanced than China in 1950s, how about now? We are at least 2 decades ahead of India regarding economy, technology and social development in general.

China was less than 5% GDP of US in 1949 when New China was born. Now China GDP is 125% of US in PPP term. China car market is more than US and Japan combined. China manufacturing value added is more than US + Japan + Germany.

Chinese don't judge other countries by ideology or political system, we just don't like to do that. We do our business by reforming ourselves and development. No matter western countries like us or hate us, we really don't care much and we stick on what's right for us.

 

[Baburfromsarmarkand]

This this and this!

Until the awam of Pakistan don't change..one man can't do much on his own.

Awam of Arab nations is no different. They have monarchies. We have democracy. Democracy is short term thinking to get elected. When the bills come due for the loans to get elected. The politician is long gone. Monarchies are about passing on a better kingdom to your heirs. So long term thinking. Jordan with no oil is still faring better than us politically. Democracy cannot ever work with a low literacy rate. Would you trust some village in Pak to vote what's in your favor? No. It's all short term thinking.

 

[vi-va]

Awam of Arab nations is no different. They have monarchies. We have democracy. Democracy is short term thinking to get elected. When the bills come due for the loans to get elected. The politician is long gone. Monarchies are about passing on a better kingdom to your heirs. So long term thinking. Jordan with no oil is still faring better than us politically. Democracy cannot ever work with a low literacy rate. Would you trust some village in Pak to vote what's in your favor? No. It's all short term thinking.

Exactly, we(Pakistanis and Chinese) must think dialectically about different political system. Use western concept to judge is silly, because we(Pakistanis and Chinese) have different history and culture than western ones. More importantly, we(Pakistanis and Chinese) have different geopolitical environment, economical situation and people.

You can't simply plant an apple tree in the desert, it will die unless you have unlimited water. Likewise, you can't simply install western political system into Pakistan or China which has a completely different social soil. It will die unless you have unlimited resource, such as money, arm force, natural resource. It's not hard to understand that.

US tried very hard to install US preferred political system in Afghanistan and Iraq, both failed. No matter how much money US spent, it won't last long.

Pakistan was surrounded by rivals and enemies. There are also inner enemies such as terrorists and separatists. The only way to survive in the law of the jungle is a tough regime.

 

[maximuswarrior]

Exactly, we(Pakistanis and Chinese) must think dialectically about different political system. Use western concept to judge is silly, because we(Pakistanis and Chinese) have different history and culture than western ones. More importantly, we(Pakistanis and Chinese) have different geopolitical environment, economical situation and people.

You can't simply plant an apple tree in the desert, it will die unless you have unlimited water. Likewise, you can't simply install western political system into Pakistan or China which has a completely different social soil. It will die unless you have unlimited resource, such as money, arm force, natural resource. It's not hard to understand that.

US tried very hard to install US preferred political system in Afghanistan and Iraq, both failed. No matter how much money US spent, it won't last long.

Pakistan was surrounded by rivals and enemies. There are also inner enemies such as terrorists and separatists. The only way to survive in the law of the jungle is a tough regime.

Well said bro. You are more than just a friend. Such advice cannot be expected from blood relatives.