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Stable gov and huge saving are the key for rapid economy growth

I never against representatives democracy, human rights is a good thing at least it looks like so.

The problem of representatives is for whom? So far I see money talks louder and louder in USA. The representatives represent Syndicat, Trust, Cartel and Concern more and more, otherwise there won't be "Occupy Wall Street". The rich get richer, the poor get poorer in USA. So the representatives democracy is a formalism, and people are awakening.

I am not arguing with you. I sincerely suggest USA to reform. It will be good for everyone.

Human rights is abused, domestically and internationally. In USA, human rights is excuse for self-interest on a lot of issues. Internationally, human rights is the tool to demonize other countries, otherwise USA won't sleep in bed with Saudi Arabia Mr. Bone Saws. You guys clearly knew well the human rights condition in Saudi Arabia by your standard. I am fine with it, but I am not comfortable with the hypocrisy.

It's quite frustrating to see USA lecture other countries. USA has lost the moral high ground for quite a long time. Every countries knew it, people in the world knew it, most Americans don't know it.

Sad.

As an representative there are two choices - one make a decision you think it is right for your constituents, the second is to blindly reflect the desires of your constituents. Moneyed interests have an edge in American version of democracy. Look no further than Trump's election. USA is one version of democratic system. European states have their own variants. It is about accountability. Was Mao in China ever held accountable ?

What is the "Occupy Wall Street" movement ?? They have not really accomplished anything. Their analysis of the problems are incorrect.

Generally speaking American allies have better human right records than countries that are hostile to USA
You won't see Chinese immigrating to Iran's, Myanmar's, Belarus's, Venezuela's of the world.

Saudi Arabia is a unique case. Saudi control of petroleum is equivalent to thermonuclear device. If Saudis recognized Taiwan there is nothing China could do. In any case Saudi human right records are better than a lot of their neighbors - Iraq under Saddam, Iran
 
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As an representative there are two choices - one make a decision you think it is right for your constituents, the second is to blindly reflect the desires of your constituents. Moneyed interests have an edge in American version of democracy. Look no further than Trump's election. USA is one version of democratic system. European states have their own variants. It is about accountability. Was Mao in China ever held accountable ?

What is the "Occupy Wall Street" movement ?? They have not really accomplished anything. Their analysis of the problems are incorrect.

Generally speaking American allies have better human right records than countries that are hostile to USA
You won't see Chinese immigrating to Iran's, Myanmar's, Belarus's, Venezuela's of the world.

Saudi Arabia is a unique case. Saudi control of petroleum is equivalent to thermonuclear device. If Saudis recognized Taiwan there is nothing China could do. In any case Saudi human right records are better than a lot of their neighbors - Iraq under Saddam, Iran

USA and European democracy's accountability is after election, in which case, the mass may elect an a$$hole and regret to make him step down. In history there are quite some figures who are very good at manipulating the mass, such as Hitler, Mussolini, or Trump. When he step down, damage was made.

You can clearly see most of leaders in developing countries are not accountable at all comparing with China in recent 40 years. Many leaders in developed countries are opportunities, such as Sarkozy, Francios Hollande, Silvio Berlusconi and so on. George W. Bush has no brain, Obama is a typical politician who focus on votes only, and then Trump.

Selecting a wise leader in western political system is almost impossible after cold war. Most of the leaders only interested in either his own interest or party interest. Of course the mass can regret and abandon the politicians.

Italians regretted repeatedly:
2011 Mario Monti 1 year, 163 days in office
2013 Enrico Letta 300 days in office
2014 MatteoRenzi 2 years, 294 days in office
2016 Paolo Gentiloni 1 year, 171 days in office
2018 Giuseppe Conte 1 year, 9 days in office

Japanese regretted repeatedly:
1989 Sōsuke Uno 69 days
1989 Toshiki Kaifu 2 years and 88 days
1991 Kiichi Miyazawa 1 year and 278 days
1993 Morihiro Hosokawa 263 days
1994 Tsutomu Hata 64 days
1994 Tomiichi Murayama 1 year and 196 days
1996 Ryūtarō Hashimoto 2 years and 201 days
1998 Keizō Obuchi 2 years and 201 days
2000 Yoshirō Mori 1 year and 22 days
2001 Junichirō Koizumi 5 years and 154 days
2006 Shinzō Abe 1 year and 1 day
2007 Yasuo Fukuda 365 days
2008 Tarō Asō 358 days
2009 Yukio Hatoyama 266 days
2010 Naoto Kan 1 year and 87 days
2011 Yoshihiko Noda 1 year and 116 days

Western system can only work when economy is good. When economy goes bad, chaos happens if not revolution.

Regarding human rights, I have said enough. it's abused, domestically and internationally. In USA, human rights is excuse for self-interest on a lot of issues. Internationally, human rights is the tool to demonize other countries, otherwise USA won't sleep in bed with Saudi Arabia Mr. Bone Saws. I am fine with it, but I am not comfortable with the hypocrisy.

A good system should select leader more wisely. I think US system should learn from China on this regard.

China meritocracy has long history and use imperial examination system (科举制度) to select elites which is different from western one which is base on blood. China has been using imperial examination system since Sui Dynasty(隋朝) which is 1400 years ago.

The central goverment has schools(中央党校) and Organization Department(中共组织部). There is a TED video on youtube for this:

I am writing this without payment from anyone. I am seriously comparing different political systems. We Chinese are open to learn from any political systems as long as it fit us.
 
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USA and European democracy's accountability is after election, in which case, the mass may elect an a$$hole and regret to make him step down. In history there are quite some figures who are very good at manipulating the mass, such as Hitler, Mussolini, or Trump. When he step down, damage was made.

You can clearly see most of leaders in developing countries are not accountable at all comparing with China in recent 40 years. Many leaders in developed countries are opportunities, such as Sarkozy, Francios Hollande, Silvio Berlusconi and so on. George W. Bush has no brain, Obama is a typical politician who focus on votes only, and then Trump.

Selecting a wise leader in western political system is almost impossible after cold war. Most of the leaders only interested in either his own interest or party interest. Of course the mass can regret and abandon the politicians.

Italians regretted repeatedly:
2011 Mario Monti 1 year, 163 days in office
2013 Enrico Letta 300 days in office
2014 MatteoRenzi 2 years, 294 days in office
2016 Paolo Gentiloni 1 year, 171 days in office
2018 Giuseppe Conte 1 year, 9 days in office

Japanese regretted repeatedly:
1989 Sōsuke Uno 69 days
1989 Toshiki Kaifu 2 years and 88 days
1991 Kiichi Miyazawa 1 year and 278 days
1993 Morihiro Hosokawa 263 days
1994 Tsutomu Hata 64 days
1994 Tomiichi Murayama 1 year and 196 days
1996 Ryūtarō Hashimoto 2 years and 201 days
1998 Keizō Obuchi 2 years and 201 days
2000 Yoshirō Mori 1 year and 22 days
2001 Junichirō Koizumi 5 years and 154 days
2006 Shinzō Abe 1 year and 1 day
2007 Yasuo Fukuda 365 days
2008 Tarō Asō 358 days
2009 Yukio Hatoyama 266 days
2010 Naoto Kan 1 year and 87 days
2011 Yoshihiko Noda 1 year and 116 days

Western system can only work when economy is good. When economy goes bad, chaos happens if not revolution.

Regarding human rights, I have said enough. it's abused, domestically and internationally. In USA, human rights is excuse for self-interest on a lot of issues. Internationally, human rights is the tool to demonize other countries, otherwise USA won't sleep in bed with Saudi Arabia Mr. Bone Saws. I am fine with it, but I am not comfortable with the hypocrisy.

A good system should select leader more wisely. I think US system should learn from China on this regard.

China meritocracy has long history and use imperial examination system (科举制度) to select elites which is different from western one which is base on blood. China has been using imperial examination system since Sui Dynasty(隋朝) which is 1400 years ago.

The central goverment has schools(中央党校) and Organization Department(中共组织部). There is a TED video on youtube for this:

I am writing this without payment from anyone. I am seriously comparing different political systems. We Chinese are open to learn from any political systems as long as it fit us.

How can you judge someone before you take office ? How can I judge you as an employee before you perform the job ? Democracy depends on well educated well informed public. It is not going to work well in a country on the verge of starvation.

Japan and Italy have parliamentary form of systems. The moment you lose confidence in the Parliament you have to step down.
You make it sound like the whole country runs based on who the Prime Minister is. 99% of what happens is a function of the system not who the Prime Minister is. You can always opt for the Presidential system over the Parliamentary system.

You dodged the question. How well did the Chinese system work when Mao made his mistakes ? Did any civil servant have the balls to oppose Mao ? Or that matter a future Mao. If there are safeguards in the Chinese system it is not visible to outsiders.
 
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How can you judge someone before you take office ? How can I judge you as an employee before you perform the job ? Democracy depends on well educated well informed public. It is not going to work well in a country on the verge of starvation.

Japan and Italy have parliamentary form of systems. The moment you lose confidence in the Parliament you have to step down.
You make it sound like the whole country runs based on who the Prime Minister is. 99% of what happens is a function of the system not who the Prime Minister is. You can always opt for the Presidential system over the Parliamentary system.

You dodged the question. How well did the Chinese system work when Mao made his mistakes ? Did any civil servant have the balls to oppose Mao ? Or that matter a future Mao. If there are safeguards in the Chinese system it is not visible to outsiders.

How can you judge someone when you hire him? Resume, background and interview.

In China, officer's resume is well documented, including position, achievement, your peer colleague review, your org review. When the officer leave the position, he will be inspected. When the officer will be promoted, his promotion will be public and others can raise their doubt. China higher ranking officers have to start from low ranking and step up little by little by performance. There is no shortcut.

This is nothing new in corporation, right? The Chinese system works quite similar like huge corporation. Is Microsoft CEO elected by all the 135k employees? How do you know Satya Nadella is capable or not? Easy, check his previous performance.

You said: "Democracy depends on well educated well informed public.", Did US public well informed when George W. Bush elected? Or are US public well educated? How about Trump?

The mass enjoy the election show. But it's just an illusion that the public can make wise decision, most of them barely manage their own life. Half of the US marriage end up divorce. If half of the population do NOT have good judgement on husbands or wives, how can they manage the present position? The mass are neither professions on economy, nor foreign policy.

Comparing Chairman Mao with nowadays western politicians is pointless. Current western political architecture was established for hundreds years, western politicians are just products which can be mass produced in universities. They just fit in and operate the existing political machine. There are plenty of professions around to serve anytime, such as constitution, national defence system, law, parliamentary system.

I can see you are quite critical on Chairman Mao. I am not going to persuade you. Adult beyond 30 can't be persuaded unless he change his mind by himself. That's my life experience.

Chairman Mao is the founder of New China. The challenge is completely different.

I can refer you some wikis if you have interests on China history and political system.
Long March
Chinese Civil War
Second Sino-Japanese War

As I said before in this thread:
"We Chinese never said he is perfect man, indeed he is quit controversial. In China, people openly criticize him for cultural revolution. But if you really want to understand China, you must compare her history in 18th, 19th and 20th, after that you can have a full picture and see what Mao bring to this country. It's easy to criticize a great man, especially through western media lens which always tell one sided story. But real history is quit complex.

CCP official statement for him was 70% achievement, 30% mistakes. People today tend to 80%/20% or even higher considering his achievement."
 
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How can you judge someone when you hire him? Resume, background and interview.

In China, officer's resume is well documented, including position, achievement, your peer colleague review, your org review. When the officer leave the position, he will be inspected. When the officer will be promoted, his promotion will be public and others can raise their doubt. China higher ranking officers have to start from low ranking and step up little by little by performance. There is no shortcut.

This is nothing new in corporation, right? The Chinese system works quite similar like huge corporation. Is Microsoft CEO elected by all the 135k employees? How do you know Satya Nadella is capable or not? Easy, check his previous performance.

You said: "Democracy depends on well educated well informed public.", Did US public well informed when George W. Bush elected? Or are US public well educated? How about Trump?

The mass enjoy the election show. But it's just an illusion that the public can make wise decision, most of them barely manage their own life. Half of the US marriage end up divorce. If half of the population do NOT have good judgement on husbands or wives, how can they manage the present position? The mass are neither professions on economy, nor foreign policy.

Comparing Chairman Mao with nowadays western politicians is pointless. Current western political architecture was established for hundreds years, western politicians are just products which can be mass produced in universities. They just fit in and operate the existing political machine. There are plenty of professions around to serve anytime, such as constitution, national defence system, law, parliamentary system.

I can see you are quite critical on Chairman Mao. I am not going to persuade you. Adult beyond 30 can't be persuaded unless he change his mind by himself. That's my life experience.

Chairman Mao is the founder of New China. The challenge is completely different.

I can refer you some wikis if you have interests on China history and political system.
Long March
Chinese Civil War
Second Sino-Japanese War

As I said before in this thread:
"We Chinese never said he is perfect man, indeed he is quit controversial. In China, people openly criticize him for cultural revolution. But if you really want to understand China, you must compare her history in 18th, 19th and 20th, after that you can have a full picture and see what Mao bring to this country. It's easy to criticize a great man, especially through western media lens which always tell one sided story. But real history is quit complex.

CCP official statement for him was 70% achievement, 30% mistakes. People today tend to 80%/20% or even higher considering his achievement."

It is not about Chairman Mao. It is about when Chairman Mao makes a mistake. Human beings make mistakes. Don't give me the BS that human beings never make mistakes. What is the recourse ? How does the system handle it ? How did the system work in 1950s and 1960s ? How does it work now ? I have no judgement on totality of Chairman Mao's career. I am not an expert on modern Chinese history.

George Bush is limited to 2 terms. That is first line of defense against incompetence. There is Congress and Judiciary. Bush's incompetence or perceived incompetence led to GOP loss of Congress in 2006 and Presidency in 2008. On George Bush he was popular two-time governor of Texas. He was not the smartest politician. The public wanted a change from Bill Clinton scandals and voted for him over Al Gore.
 
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It is not about Chairman Mao. It is about when Chairman Mao makes a mistake. Human beings make mistakes. Don't give me the BS that human beings never make mistakes. What is the recourse ? How does the system handle it ? How did the system work in 1950s and 1960s ? How does it work now ? I have no judgement on totality of Chairman Mao's career. I am not an expert on modern Chinese history.

George Bush is limited to 2 terms. That is first line of defense against incompetence. There is Congress and Judiciary. Bush's incompetence or perceived incompetence led to GOP loss of Congress in 2006 and Presidency in 2008. On George Bush he was popular two-time governor of Texas. He was not the smartest politician. The public wanted a change from Bill Clinton scandals and voted for him over Al Gore.

As I mentioned above:
"USA and European democracy's accountability is after election, in which case, the mass may elect an a$$hole and regret to make him step down. In history there are quite some figures who are very good at manipulating the mass, such as Hitler, Mussolini, or Trump. When he step down, damage was made. "

Western democracy should select leaders more wisely, instead of keeping producing incompetent ones. You can learn from China's political system, or you can have other approaches, it's up to you. And by the way, the system really elect the leader by MASS? That's illusion. US election system generate president by MONEY in general. The MASS is manipulated sophisticatedly by media, ideology and Super PACT.

Of course the Chinese system has flaws, every system has it's pros and cons. We criticize our system more than anyone else on earth. We Chinese always self-check our system since Records of the Grand Historian in 94 BC. and Zizhi Tongjian. That's our tradition.

Chairman Mao's era is different. There was no political system ready for him. New China was built on ash in 1949 after one hundred year of humiliation. Chairman Mao fixed the China Plane while he fly it. Of course he made mistakes, that's human nature, but you have to look the other side of the coin - his achievement.

After Chairman Mao, Deng Xiaoping adopted Democratic Centralism which actually was used by Chairman Mao in his earlier political career. China still use Democratic Centralism nowadays. Some people may think China was control by Present Xi, it's not. China was controlled by Politburo of the Communist Party of China. Present Xi is just a member of the politburo and have some more weight, that's it.
 
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As I mentioned above:
"USA and European democracy's accountability is after election, in which case, the mass may elect an a$$hole and regret to make him step down. In history there are quite some figures who are very good at manipulating the mass, such as Hitler, Mussolini, or Trump. When he step down, damage was made. "

you cannot predict who will be a great President and who won't be
Why is Trump exactly with Hitler and Mussolini ??
 
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Those things happened as well in China when Nationalist Party Kuo Min Tang was in power in 1911-1945. Actually it was much worse than that. The Kuo Min Tang(KMT) was a weak party base on alliance with oligarchs and landlords.

KMT sold our country out to USSR and USA to win inner war but failed, then CCP come in power. CCP drove Japanese out and USA out. When Khrushchev tried to control China like eastern European countries, CCP said big NO and China was then isolated by both camps in cold war.

Everything comes cons and pros. If China go with KMT, we will have a very weak party, and eventually parliamentary system. China may end up suck USSR and Uncle Sam's D*ck and live. CCP is highly organized party, can control the country. The price is very high, USSR and Uncle Sam see China as enemy, and tried everything they can to destroy this country. As a Chinese, I prefer the second situation.

My point is, you can choose parliamentary system and a weak party in power. You can also choose something like CCP which can control the country. In the second situation you can have completely different ideology, but a strong party which can push the country forward.

If you compare BJP and Congress in India, Congress is something like KMT, and BJP is something like CCP but with completely different ideology.

I think weak party can take the country nowhere in developing country. Even developed countries are facing severe challenges which weak party can do nothing about it, such as UK, Greece, Spain, Portugal and Italy.



All your points are very well. But you need a strong party as I mentioned above(replying Abdussamad). Things won't happen automatically, Pakistan need a super strong leader, a wise man to sit on the driving seat, and all people should fasten seat belt, because it will be quit bumpy forward.
Hi, can you suggest a book on the history of China before 1949 and post 1949? Encompassing all the major events that led to the present day China? One that is easily available and authored by a Chinese but offcourse the translated version.

Awam of Arab nations is no different. They have monarchies. We have democracy. Democracy is short term thinking to get elected. When the bills come due for the loans to get elected. The politician is long gone. Monarchies are about passing on a better kingdom to your heirs. So long term thinking. Jordan with no oil is still faring better than us politically. Democracy cannot ever work with a low literacy rate. Would you trust some village in Pak to vote what's in your favor? No. It's all short term thinking.
I like the sound of what you just said. Made me think, a monarchy is not a bad thing after all for a country. The monarch wont do it something out of love for his country but he'll definetly want to leave a better country for his heirs..
 
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you cannot predict who will be a great President and who won't be
Why is Trump exactly with Hitler and Mussolini ??

Trump not necessary with Hitler and Mussolini. He made damage to US, but US political system can counter back Trump. If Trump stay in power for 8 years, it may be different.

I raise Trump as an issue just for convenience.

It can be George W. Bush as well who entered Afghanistan and invaded Iraq. The Bush Administration planned to take out 7 countries in 5 years: Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Lybia, Somalia, Sudan, Iran.
The Plan -- according to U.S. General Wesley Clark (Ret.)

It can be Clinton couple as well who are deeply corrupted.
Clinton Foundation

It can be Obama, whose cabinet are fulfilled by Citigroup.
Citigroup chose Obama’s 2008 cabinet, WikiLeaks document reveals

The elites sold ordinary Americans out. As I mentioned above, the Rich get richer, the poor get poorer. Who represent the ordinary Americans? The congress?
U.S. Congressional Approval Stable at 21%

We can't predict who can be great president. But there are so many ways to filter out incompetent candidates, such as resume, background and interview.

As I said above, you can learn from China's political system, or you can have other approaches, it's up to you.

The way US select president can be traced back in Acropolis of Athens in mid-4th century BC, with thousands of citizens who can vote. Even though, Socrates was sentenced to death. Direct election may work with very small population who knew the candidates very well, it won't work with population in US scale. You will elect opportunist again and again. You have my words.

I recommend you a book The Crowd: A Study of the Popular Mind.

In 5th century BC, Confucius said: "民可使由之不可使知之", it means the government should let the mass live freely, the politics should be handled by professionals, not the mass.

Hi, can you suggest a book on the history of China before 1949 and post 1949? Encompassing all the major events that led to the present day China? One that is easily available and authored by a Chinese but offcourse the translated version.


Selected Works of Mao Zedong:
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/index.htm

The Cambridge History of China

Republican China, 1912–1949, Part 1 (edited by Fairbank and Twitchett), September 1983. ISBN 978-0-521-23541-9.
Republican China, 1912–1949, Part 2 (edited by Fairbank and Albert Feuerwerker), July 1986. ISBN 978-0-521-24338-4.
The People's Republic, Part 1: Emergence of Revolutionary China, 1949–1965 (edited by Roderick MacFarquhar and Fairbank), June 1987. ISBN 978-0-521-24336-0.
The People's Republic, Part 2: Revolutions Within the Chinese Revolution, 1966–1982 (edited by MacFarquhar and Fairbank), November 1991. ISBN 978-0-521-24337-7.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cambridge_History_of_China

Fairbank is American, not Chinese.
 
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Trump not necessary with Hitler and Mussolini. He made damage to US, but US political system can counter back Trump. If Trump stay in power for 8 years, it may be different.

I raise Trump as an issue just for convenience.

It can be George W. Bush as well who entered Afghanistan and invaded Iraq. The Bush Administration planned to take out 7 countries in 5 years: Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Lybia, Somalia, Sudan, Iran.
The Plan -- according to U.S. General Wesley Clark (Ret.)

It can be Clinton couple as well who are deeply corrupted.
Clinton Foundation

It can be Obama, whose cabinet are fulfilled by Citigroup.
Citigroup chose Obama’s 2008 cabinet, WikiLeaks document reveals

The elites sold ordinary Americans out. As I mentioned above, the Rich get richer, the poor get poorer. Who represent the ordinary Americans? The congress?
U.S. Congressional Approval Stable at 21%

We can't predict who can be great president. But there are so many ways to filter out incompetent candidates, such as resume, background and interview.

As I said above, you can learn from China's political system, or you can have other approaches, it's up to you.

The way US select president can be traced back in Acropolis of Athens in mid-4th century BC, with thousands of citizens who can vote. Even though, Socrates was sentenced to death. Direct election may work with very small population who knew the candidates very well, it won't work with population in US scale. You will elect opportunist again and again. You have my words.

I recommend you a book The Crowd: A Study of the Popular Mind.

In 5th century BC, Confucius said: "民可使由之不可使知之", it means the government should let the mass live freely, the politics should be handled by professionals, not the mass.

I hear your point on direct election for small population sizes. USA had election by representatives - we did not elect Senators by popular vote. Presidents are still elected by electoral votes. A lot of people will argue for indirect election.

Clinton Foundation is a charitable public foundation. Allegations of corruption are hardily proven. Total amount of money into Clinton Foundation is $2 billion. They have lot of expenses.

If the Chinese system is so good how come China fell behind European powers in the 17th century ? China was much weaker than the Europeans for 300+ years. There is no proof the Chinese system will work in the long run. For one it is opaque. No one knows what happens behind closed doors. It is a recipe for disaster.
 
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I hear your point on direct election for small population sizes. USA had election by representatives - we did not elect Senators by popular vote. Presidents are still elected by electoral votes. A lot of people will argue for indirect election.

Clinton Foundation is a charitable public foundation. Allegations of corruption are hardily proven. Total amount of money into Clinton Foundation is $2 billion. They have lot of expenses.

If the Chinese system is so good how come China fell behind European powers in the 17th century ? China was much weaker than the Europeans for 300+ years. There is no proof the Chinese system will work in the long run. For one it is opaque. No one knows what happens behind closed doors. It is a recipe for disaster.

'Bill Clinton, Inc.': WikiLeaks Shows Foundation Donors, Personal Cash Overlap

You have a point. In my previous reply, I mentioned:
"Frankly speaking, we Chinese betrayed our nation in 17th century, 18th century and 19th century. We basically lost 300 years. We were divided and ruled, people were depressed, our culture was destroyed. We deeply deeply lost any hope to be a great nation."

I said every system has flaws. Long story begin:
1, China's geopolitical threat always comes from north in past 5000 years.
2, In 960 AD, Liao dynasty(barbarian), Western Xia(barbarian), Jin dynasty(barbarian) and Mongol Empire(barbarian) bashed Chinese Song Dynasty for 300 years. Mongol conquest of the Song dynasty from 1235 - 1241, 1253-1259, 1268-1279.
3, Song dynasty exhausted after 300 years of wars, and destroyed by Mongolian. Culture was destroyed by Mongolian, those Mongolian knew nothing except horse, archery, robbery and killing.
4, Ming Dynasty(1368–1644) beat the Mongolian barbarians out and recovered China, but culture can't be restored.
5, Then China go down the drain, Qing dynasty(1636–1912) is similar to Mongol Empire.

The turning point of China is when Song dynasty died, culture destroyed. Although Ming recovered, but again conquered by Qing dynasty(1636–1912).

Then The Industrial Revolution comes. Bourgeois revolution emerged in Song dynasty and Ming Dynasty, but China don't have the relative safe environment as British. It was interrupted.

The technique in Song dynasty and Ming Dynasty is quite high, but for many reasons no Industrial Revolution occurred.

I may reply later on opaque issue.
 
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To be very honest, IMO it's because how a country was born.

Before 1949, China went through 100 years of chaos, inner wars, foreign invasions. China signed hundreds of treaties with invaders, and literally China lost everything, including dignity and pride. Tens of millions of people died, due to hunger, disease and wars.

To save China, Chinese tried all kinds of political systems and ideologies since 1840, democracy, constitutionalism, parliamentarism and theocracy. All of them failed completely except communism. So it's the history choose communism not us. When we drove Japanese out after 30 million people died, communists finally win the war and took the power.

At that time, the CCP has a super strong political leader - Chairman Mao, a very well organized party - CCP, most of the members are survivors of the cruelest war, they have mind of steel. Also, widest support across the 96000000 sq km.

Then new China was born.

Sometimes, I imagined what if Mr. Jinnah lived longer, give him 20 more years to build the country and the party - Pakistan Muslim League, so that Pakistan can have a better start position.

Chairman Mao lived 27 more years after 1949. Literally Mao build everything for this country. Not many people outside China understood how great Mao is. For those who sold out their own countries, westerners tend to give Nobel Peace Prize. Not surprisingly, Mao was demonized for decades in western media.
Mao is good in uniting China and fighting war. But when comes to nation building, Mao is bad. It is only Deng that bring China to prosperity. Initially, all CPC members want to induct Mao into the gang of four (to become gang of five). It is Deng gracious character that save Mao legacy by continue to recognized Mao as forefathers of CPC. Dengs son become a cripple by red guard but Deng bear no grudge against Mao.
 
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I will try to deepen my knowledge further about the relation of big saving into growth, while there is no one argue that stable and strong government is needed to achieve high economic growth.

For Indonesia case, we dont do saving as much as Chinese, and we spend more than Chinese. It may have relation that Indonesian people are more optimistic about the future then Chinese. Spending is good for the economy since it will grow the domestic demand and in return give more opportunity for businesses to grow.
 
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One comment. Huge saving is only essential under dollar hegemony, that China learned from comprador from HK.

China subordinating to this dollar hegemony is probably essential at the start for joining the world system dominated by the west, and not stiring too much antagonism at the side of USA.

Saving is no longer necessary if other nations pays China in Yuan.

Investment no longer need to be funded by savings, but by issuing sovereign credit, as per federal reserve.

 
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