Split Discussion: Muhajir Identity

[haviZsultan]

Hi folks... a lot of you may have been noticing my posts which are a little negative towards Muhajirs... though my old posts will reveal I was a solid one myself once. This thread is a solid attempt by me to discuss Muhajir identity.

A little personal background. I was born in a family that considers itself Muhajir. We have a rich history and strong heritage in Lucknow with relatives spread in Hyderabad, Bihar Delhi and other parts. Personally I am quite frustrated with some of the hate amongst Muhajirs for ethnic groups and have taken to adopting Pashtun identity though there are some unproven links. I hope this is not a hindrance to this discussion and my personal decisions are not a reason for hate.

Please share your views on what you think about Muhajir identity. Is Muhajir not a derogatory term meaning pilgrim? Yet why do our families insist on maintaining this distinction that divides us from the rest of our countrymen? Is the MQM the sole representative of Muhajirs? Or is it a violent organization that misrepresents Muhajirs? Please involve yourself in this debate.

I may then incorporate aspects in my paper on ethnic issues which is already getting thicker. Please share your views in this thread. It will be greatly appreciated.

Keep the discussion strictly on Muhajirs and their identity. This is not a troll-fest.

I will start the discussion with a post to @Armstrong. @Secur, @Karachiite, @GIANTsasquatch please join us and bring friends who are knowledgeable on the matter. Varying views are tolerated here but please do not resort to racism. I would like to encourage self-deprecating views about ethnicity here. If we can keep it civil and no one provokes me too much with racism we may call others as well. @Armstrong... your expertise and your interest in ethnic issues may deeply help here in keeping this thread alive and it being a resource for me, the site, Muhajirs and most importantly for Pakistan, for which I hope all of us work?

Meherbani.


Please admins, mods. Do not close the thread. The ethnic groups are a part of Pakistan and this issue must be resolved. Ethnic groups exist... we can try and keep the discussion on national news and politics but it is incorrect to ignore a certain topic just because it may taboo or has a potential for being misused by confused individuals. Instead it is our duty to counter the narrative of people who use ethnicity as a basis of politics.

I said the same about the red light districts recently, debate must continue regardless of the topic-if it is an issue in Pakistan it is our job to find a solution. I would request help from @Oscar in keeping this clean. Do provide your personal input as well.

 

[Sedqal]

Just an observation. Punjab faced THE worst of partition yet Muhajirs who migrated from Indian Punjab to Pak Punjab are never discussed and appreciated in mainstream.

 

[Armstrong]

Beats me !

I still can't understand the reason behind why the Bijnauris, the Biharis, the Hyderabadis & others in Punjab & the rest of Pakistan don't prescribe for themselves this tag ? I've got enough of them as family - my maternal Grandpa was a Punjabi born in Bijnaur & has friends & family, including a sister-in-law, from there, & friends - my maternal Grandma's best friend the one who my Mom grew up calling as Khala, is from Luckhnow & because we've know them for the past 50 or so years they're much more than family-friends. In addition I've got work colleagues, college friends & football buddies ranging, in this context from, a Hyderabadi family to 3 Burmese brothers & a guy whose family are from Pataudi !

I can't for the life of me remember the last time they either :

(a) Labelled themselves as Muhajirs or we did that !

or (b) They gave up their unique cultural & linguistic identity.

And if I may, my Paternal Grandpa decided to settle down in Rawalpindi before the Partition & the rest of his family (the ones who could make it & weren't cut down along the way) came from Srinagar, Jammu or their ancestral village near Srinagar, which means, from a certain point of view, I could call myself a 'Muhajir' too because I've got people in my immediate family who lost loved ones from there & who moved to Pakistan in '48 & over the years.

But, even though we call ourselves 'ethnic Kashmiris' we don't call ourselves Muhajirs or identify ourselves as a separate community within Punjab ! And so for all intents & purposes we are Punjabis, within Pakistan & very much in love with Punjab & its local population; partly because they Punjabis are such a mellow, inclusive & loving lot & partly because they never 'discriminated' between themselves & other Pakistanis.

So I really don't know why this wasn't the case in Sindh ?

 

[darkinsky]

1) MQM is the sole representative of urdu speakers as PPP is for sindh, PMLN is for punjab, ANP is for pathans

2) the violance begets violance, the illegal afghan immigration laden with weapons and drugs came to karachi, according to my understanding of things thats the time when APMSO, the student federation which eventually became MQM emerged

3) APMSO was founded among various talba unions of jamiyat talba of jamaat islami, PSF or pakhtoon students federation who had brought weapins to karachi university

4) the first shot of gun in karachi university was fired by jamiyat guys in KU

6) most of the jamiyat guys consisted of pathans who along with PSF were a nuicense to other ethnicity in KU

5) the first guns which MQM got was through jamaat islami itself, MQM and jamaat had secretly formed alliance against the PPP

6) the massacre of qasba aligarh was done by illegal immigrants of afghanistan who slaughtered mohajirs purely based on their ethnicity and it was done because they thought mohajirs were responsible for the army/police crack down on their drugs and weapons hub in al asif square

7) the maududi's own son has admitted that qazi hussain ahmed, liaquat baloch, munawar hasan was thugs and operated armed thugs who harrassed him and his family

8) so MQM faced armed thugs of illegal afghanis, jamaat islami and PSF

9) ANP was the party which fired weapons on fatima jinnah's rally, the first pathans who came to karachi were sent by ayub khan to tackle the mohajir votes of fatima jinnah in the elections

10) jamaat islami enjoyed the majority of mohajir mandate since long time, till jamaat started operating armed thugs most of them from pathan backgrounds, then mohajirs stopped supporting jamaat after MQM emergence and shifted there entire vote bank to MQM

11) that was the time when urdu speaking pakistani community first started to use the word mohajir

12) in 1970s bhutto made sindhi subject mandatory in sindh so practices by bhutto started ethnic strive and ethnic politics in karachi, separate sindhi quota in jobs, education, preference to one ethnicity totally based on his cultural background rather than merit, the high ranking officers were also chosen on ethnic lines, practically that was racism

13) PPP was made a sindhi party, it didnt accepted mohajirs on key posts, mohajirs were never promoted to important positions in the PPP, i have heard how benazir used to look down upon its on mohajir officials in PPP, so mohajirs were never respected in PPP politics, jamaat islami started becoming the party of pathans

according to wikipedia

Upon arrival in Pakistan, the Muhajirs did not assert themselves as a separate ethnic identity but were at the forefront of trying to a construct an Islamic Pakistani identity

mohajirs never even asserted themselves as separate ethnicity, they only introduced themselves as pakistanis, but it was forced on us to adopt a political identity..

shahi syed calling mohajirs panah guzeers

 

[haviZsultan]

Response to @Armstrong from Baithak:

At baithak I said this:

My next post is dedicated to you my friend.
My original message in simple terms for you is don't lose Potohari as a language... linguistic and cultural diversity is what makes Pakistan what it is. It is great to know about your family background.

To which Armstrong responded:

'm confused now !

Then why were you arguing for, what I understood to be, 'assimilation' into the local cultures & languages of the land for the Muhajirs?

I will discuss my feeling on Muhajirs as a people in bullets to make it shorter:
1) Where did it emerge... where did this term muhajir emerge... after 47. Keep this in perspective... the others are genuine race terms... and each of them have existed for years... we Pashtuns possibly for 6000 years. Just keep this in mind-how is this separate identity developing?

2) Muhajir itself is not a "culture"... the communities that came, came from various places. Some from Hyderabad, some lucknow, some Goa, some Mallu land... that is our culture or to be precise our families culture... so basically what you can say is each family has a different culture. for example our friends from Hyderabad who we moved in 2003 have very different traditions. 1 example may be... they ate haleem with roti from a plate... we (maybe its a family thing or lucknow thing-no idea) eat it with a spoon from a bowl. Their haleem is also far different. Auntee wore a saree while our lucknowi married women wear shalwar kameez.

3) Why do you think half my butt is defending Pashtuns and commenting on Pashtun affairs and the other half on Muhajir affairs though I stated I quit the Muhajir race... because very simple-I did not quit the ancestral and family identity itself and loyalty to Ansari clan, when I quit the muhajir race. These are different. People can think I am crazy! lol.

4) Now 3 explained better is simply that I believe in Lucknowi culture and support the Firangi Mahal house. You can search both ansari and firangi mahal... you will see both are interlinked. I am not in favor of migrants giving up their culture but what is their culture exactly??? How is it defined? Now yes Gujarati speakers, the hyderabadis who have a different dialect of Urdu and often wear saris more often... all should maintain their culture and languages. But the thing is these aren't "muhajir" cultural practices are they? Because each muhajir has a different culture-even our family/khandaan members from hyderabad are far different from us... It is just a derogatory term applied by muhajirs on themselves.

5) Muhajir isn't a race... now this is how an ethnic group is defined in a dictionary and is perhaps the most damning proof that my community actually wants to be known by a derogatory term:

adjective
1.
pertaining to or characteristic of a people, especially a group (ethnic group) sharing a common and distinctive culture, religion, language, or the like.

Now let me start from common, it means in this usage the same characteristics, it shares things and traits. Now lets see what we share in common. Culture-right, have you seen the wedding of a Bihari or Lucknowi muslim and the wedding ceremony of a Madrasi Muslim (yt search it and watch each wedding carefully), what do we share... a madrasi muslim wears dhoti or lungee, we lucknowites have never heard of anything such as a dhoti and never worn it. We are the people of sherwanis, shalwar kameez and other things. So what common culture? Then history, compare me and secur... his mother a bihari with far different upbringing, my mother a lucknowite from the firangi mahal house which once hosted muslim league leaders. What common history, yaar? Then language... fine lots speak urdu but even we have different dialects-Hyderabadi guys talk like gunda's in bollywood movies (have an aunt who moved from Hydz so I know... but she is ansar too, one of us) we have this pure urdu and aap janab... same as aligarh muslims, but are known as meek and overly courteous and graceful. And are we forgetting the gujju's? There are groups of migrants who speak marathi and gujrati too It has no culture-each group has its own separate culture. It has no shared history-it has no shared language. Muhajir is a fake term imposed on us by ourselves which we are keen to maintain.

So is Muhajir itself a race as we have turned it into or is it actually just a term used to divide us from the rest of our countrymen? I believe... the way our family members in Pakistan are behaving it is basically dividing our country and ethnically polarizing it, they abuse other ethnicity constantly. I do not wish to be a part of this ethnic polarization. My history is the firgangi mahal and how our ancestor moved during Babur's reign not non-existent oppression in 1992, 94. MQM is trying to impose a fake history and a fake identity upon us. We must resist it. Adopting Pashtun identity is not just my means of resisting it but sending a much wider message of ethnic unity not to say that I deeply love Pashtuns for a variety of reasons

Do understand that by maintaining loyalty to Firangi mahal and Ansaris I am in many ways killing my own stated cause of becoming a Pashtun. People will suspect my intentions here which will make it harder for me to comment on sensitive topics like ANP and Bacha Khan as I told @Secur... but why do I do it?... because I would be contradicting myself and my statement of "all history, cultures and languages in Pakistan must be preserved and efforts made to protect them"... thats why. I want the migrants from Gujarat to stay strong to Gujrati, the Marathi speakers to Marathi because that is what makes us the diverse and culturally rich community we are.

Now to reply... taking all this as evidence. Basically there is every indication that the Quaid E Azam wished muhajir to be a temporary term used only for a while until obviously they merged into the local communities and developed the Pakistani identity other than anything else. Here I do not argue that a mumbai muslim or a gujrati muslim lose marathi or gujarati.

I am arguing keeping in mind that the cultural identity they developed was not of Gujarati or Marathi but that of Muhajir which is another word for pilgrim or traveler (or religious traveler)... we aren't travelers. Call me a lucknowite, call me UP muslim... call me anything else if you refuse to call me Pakistani first second and last and then Pashtun but do not call me that. It is like swearing at me. Calling me some nomadic kochay... my issue is the wider identity we have developed. I proved to you that Bihari's have bihari kababs, Hyderabadis have a special haleem, they wear saris... each community is in its own marvelous way different from each other.

Why I am calling for the Muhajirs to assimilate as Sindhis... because these identities will remain as such... but I believe that wider muhajir identity may disappear and these Gujrati, Lucknowi, UP, Hyderabadi identities I fear have already disappeared in 60 years for this fake identity. For example you may now never find anyone in Pakistan talking the Hyderabadi dialect of urdu... very few... only old people left.

And since this identity has become a tool and is being misused severely by the MQM I believe it is pertinent and perhaps a wise solution that muhajirs merge with local communities. We might maintain our distinct culture despite calling ourselves... might not... never know. This may not seem ideal for someone who suggests all our histories are worth it... but we aren't calling ourselves by our real ethnic group are we?

If there are other solutions in the minds of others born in Muhajir communities do let me know, particularly @Secur and @GIANTsasquatch's opinion would matter here. But I fear Muhajir has become a tool of division which is part of the reason I have disengaged myself from this identity. It is also bad for the izzat of a person to continue being attached to a name that has negative connotations which may be the reason some posters feel so insecure that to re-inforce their "different" identity they have to bash other ethnic groups.

May Pakistan thrive and prosper and may we find a solution to our ethnic problems. Invite friends here for their views... just don't invite the troll darkinsky.

Please admins, mods. Do not close the thread. The ethnic groups are a part of Pakistan and this issue must be resolved. Ethnic groups exist... we can try and keep the discussion on national news and politics but it is incorrect to ignore a certain topic just because it may taboo or has a potential for being misused by confused individuals. Instead it is our duty to counter the narrative of people who use ethnicity as a basis of politics.

I said the same about the red light districts recently, debate must continue regardless of the topic-if it is an issue in Pakistan it is our job to find a solution. I would request help from @Oscar in keeping this clean. Do provide your personal input as well.

 

[Sedqal]

2) the violance begets violance, the illegal afghan immigration laden with weapons and drugs came to karachi, according to my understanding of things thats the time when APMSO, the student federation which eventually became MQM emerged

3) APMSO was founded among various talba unions of jamiyat talba of jamaat islami, PSF or pakhtoon students federation who had brought weapins to karachi university

4) the first shot of gun in karachi university was fired by jamiyat guys in KU

Then why didn't it happen in Punjab? JI was active there too.

 

[American Pakistani]

The thing is that almost 3 decades before Muhajirs were labelled with many derogatory terms, few to mention are bhayya log, panah guzeen, bhokay nangay(still used by some), hindustani,...,etc...& obviously Muhajireen, so we choose the best out of them i.e Muhajirs. It is funny that same people now want us to stop calling ourself the same name they use to tease us with. Why is it so?

MQM('nine zeero' one) means Muttahida Qaumi Movement & MQM(H) means Muhajir Qaumi Movement. Muhajirs Pakistanis from Karachi & Hyderabad & most of them here on PDF support MQM('nine zeero' one) which clearly means United Nation(Pakistan) Movement but most non-Muhajir Pakistanis support MQM(H). So MQM is just like other political parties of Pakistan, yes there are dozens of bad people in it but it has thousand of good peoples too.

P.S I'm first Pakistani(religion my personnal matter) & then Muhajir & American.

 

[darkinsky]

Then why didn't it happen in Punjab? JI was active there too.

do you have access to youtube?

listen to this, dont believe me for im a liar to you

The thing is that almost 3 decades before Muhajirs were labelled with many derogatory terms, few to mention are bhayya log, panah guzeen, bhokay nangay(still used by some), hindustani,...,etc...& obviously Muhajireen, so we choose the best out of them i.e Muhajirs. It is funny that same people now want us to stop calling ourself the same name they use to tease us with. Why is it so?

MQM('nine zeero' one) means Muttahida Qaumi Movement & MQM(H) means Muhajir Qaumi Movement. Muhajirs Pakistanis from Karachi & Hyderabad & most of them here on PDF support MQM('nine zeero' one) which clearly means United Nation(Pakistan) Movement but most non-Muhajir Pakistanis support MQM(H). So MQM is just like other political parties of Pakistan, yes there are dozens of bad people in it but it has thousand of good peoples too.

P.S I'm first Pakistani(religion my personnal matter) & then Muhajir & American.

yeah nobody insults MQMH who openly use the mohajir word, MQMH is in short for mahajir qoumi movement haqiqi(in real)

even nawaz shareef, ANP and jamaat islami are friends with MQMH

but the ethnic blame is one which infact promotes harmoey and unity(mutehda meaning united)

 

[American Pakistani]

Just an observation. Punjab faced THE worst of partition yet Muhajirs who migrated from Indian Punjab to Pak Punjab are never discussed and appreciated in mainstream.

Atleast Punjabis got their land, think about us no one politically fought for our lands...how many land we had lo leave behind. Alot of land from UP, Bihar, Hyderabad Deccan, Gujarat(Junagadh/Manvadar) would've been Pakistan today.

 

[Sedqal]

do you have access to youtube?

listen to this, dont believe me for im a liar to you

I've seen the video before (in other video his own brother differs from him). In any case I myself consider JUI to be nuisance but the thing is that ethnic violence rarely happened in Punjab after partition though it had been the most active political ground and Seraiki/ Punjabi rivalry was there too (though not that pronounced). Punjab is a geographic reference and a blanket term for a number of cultures e.g. Potharis have a distinct identity. A good number of Pahtuns also live here. So question remains why did these issues get out of hand in Karachi (as compared to say, Lahore)?

 

[American Pakistani]

Then why didn't it happen in Punjab? JI was active there too.

Govt Islamia Science College, Karachi. Go there & see what these jamiat guys do there. They don't want students to get education but join their organization. Go there & get the facts yourself.

 

[Sedqal]

Govt Islamia Science College, Karachi. Go there & see what these jamiat guys do there. They don't want students to get education but join their organization. Go there & get the facts yourself.

I am not doubting you, JUI has been a constant issue in Punjab University too. What I fail to understand is why does Karachi turn into a battleground while in other places things don't get out of hand (I'm talking urban cities here). Its like a constant struggle in Karachi, which never stops.

 

[Armstrong]

Atleast Punjabis got their land, think about us no one politically fought for our lands...how many land we had lo leave behind. Alot of land from UP, Bihar, Hyderabad Deccan, Gujarat(Junagadh/Manvadar) would've been Pakistan today.

What land do I have ? Kashmir Valley is still with India ? What land does a Punjabi from Jalandur, Ferozepur or Gurdaspur has ?

I am not doubting you, JUI has been a constant issue in Punjab University too. What I fail to understand is why does Karachi turn into a battleground while in other places things don't get out of hand (I'm talking urban cities here). Its like a constant struggle in Karachi, which never stops.

Plus how many people actually like the Jamiat or support the Jammat-i-Islami ? I would say 1 out of a 100 perhaps & even less for the Jamiat.

 

[darkinsky]

I've seen the video before (in other video his own brother differs from him). In any case I myself consider JUI to be nuisance but the thing is that ethnic violence rarely happened in Punjab after partition though it had been the most active political ground and Seraiki/ Punjabi rivalry was there too (though not that pronounced). Punjab is a geographic reference and a blanket term for a number of cultures e.g. Potharis have a distinct identity. A good number of Pahtuns also live here. So question remains why did these issues get out of hand in Karachi (as compared to say, Lahore)?

if you had read my post all your questins are already answered

lahore only has one big party from the beginning PMLN, karachi politics is different and involves all big players, like jamaat islam, PPP, MQM, ANP

ANP doesnt win from lahore but it wins from karachi

illegal afghanis with smuggled weapons(klashnikovs even rocket launchers) didnt came to lahore, they came to karachi

in lahore, the very same punjabis support jamaat islami where as in karachi pathans hold the foundation of jamaat here and they are armed to teeth

 

[American Pakistani]

What land do I have ? Kashmir Valley is still with India ? What land does a Punjabi from Jalandur, Ferozepur or Gurdaspur has ?

Inshallah whole Kashmir will become Pakistan accordingly with the UN resolution but still Azad Kashmir is in Pakistan. Punjabi from Jalandur still has Punjab province.

Also please look at my post again why i reply that.

Just an observation. Punjab faced THE worst of partition yet Muhajirs who migrated from Indian Punjab to Pak Punjab are never discussed and appreciated in mainstream.

Atleast Punjabis got their land, think about us no one politically fought for our lands...how many land we had lo leave behind. Alot of land from UP, Bihar, Hyderabad Deccan, Gujarat(Junagadh/Manvadar) would've been Pakistan today.