South China Sea Forum

[Genesis]

The thing is, what the US is doing is to ensure Freedom of Navigation, yet the Mainland Chinese think it is a provocation and a sign of declaration of war.

I wonder what will happen to non-Chinese merchant fleets if the islands will have military installations? Will they be forced to hail the PLA in the area just to have a safe passage? This reminds me of the concept of medieval castles called "Pfalzgrafenstein Castle" and "Gutenfels Castle" in Germany.

It's 2015, you doubt China's ability to sink ships without these islands.

These islands will be mostly civilian, perhaps with a military element, but it'll be an after thought.

China backs down, as expected...

Did you expect China to start firing missiles. If US didn't fire when we transited Alaska, why should we do any different here.

As I said before, the US not doing any military activities is the defacto recognition of Chinese sovereignty. As transit is allowed under international law. If the US started to fire a missile, even if at nothing, or a few rounds, then it be a different story. That didn't take place.

Chinese strategy has always been complain until we can do it, then everything flies. You will hear less and less about the no military activities in EEZ, as our surveillance and resupply ability increases.

Alsaka is USA's territory, not an artificial structure. Your Islands are artificial structures like an Oil rig. They do not have territorial water under international law and USA is reminding you of the same by sailing within 12 nautical miles of your fake Islands.

If you are sailing within 12 nautical miles of a nation's territory, you are only entitled to innocent passage which is continuous passage with show of flags and following conditions:

(a) any threat or use of force against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of the coastal State, or in any other manner in violation of the principles of international law embodied in the Charter of the United Nations;

(b) any exercise or practice with weapons of any kind;

(c) any act aimed at collecting information to the prejudice of the defence or security of the coastal State;

(d) any act of propaganda aimed at affecting the defence or security of the coastal State;

(e) the launching, landing or taking on board of any aircraft;

(f) the launching, landing or taking on board of any military device;

(g) the loading or unloading of any commodity, currency or person contrary to the customs, fiscal, immigration or sanitary laws and regulations of the coastal State;

(h) any act of wilful and serious pollution contrary to this Convention;

(i) any fishing activities;

(j) the carrying out of research or survey activities;

(k) any act aimed at interfering with any systems of communication or any other facilities or installations of the coastal State;

(l) any other activity not having a direct bearing on passage.



USA is going within 12 nautical miles of your fake Islands and staying there to remind you of international law which does not allow you to have territorial water for artificial structures.

As far as I can tell the US didn't stay, they transit, this from the US sources. Until proven otherwise, this is a defacto recognition of Chinese sovereignty.

Whatever happened to the Americans being scared of the mighty Chinese and only sending a puny LCS?

Kowtowing to Beijing, USA officially declines to deploy fleet to South China Sea

You really want to compare troll threads. Go look inside Indian defense section. I say we're still up.

So when Chinese ships sailed within 12 nautical miles of Alaska, what does that mean?

let's not bring facts into this, we have our trolls, they have theirs, what can you do.

 

[jhungary]

LOL..........You have to be stupid to believe something like this.

“China has always said that with freedoms of navigation and overflight, it only disputes the right of the US to conduct military activities, particularly certain types of intelligence collection and military data gathering (so-called ‘military surveys’) in its exclusive economic zone (EEZ).

Whoever wrote the aforementioned article know basically nothing about International law at sea.

For argument sake, let's say SCS is Chinese EEZ.

Exclusive Economic Zone is basically an extent of International Water with Economic Right to the EEZ owner. The transit and activities of foreign nation are treated as if they were in international water. Unless US Spy ship or warship stop at Chinese EEZ and started fishing, China have no right to dispute the rights of other from transiting it's EEZ. Wasn't the term "Exclusion Economic Zone" already a bit self explanatory?

Territorial water ended at 12 nautical mile, EEZ only give the host country right for ECONOMIC activities, military activities are not limited in EEZ.

And then there are UK and US breaking a bond over SCS is simply stupid. US-UK bond built on the threat of Soviet union and currently Russia. UK is not a claimant nor party of interest in SCS. Even US gone to war with China over SCS would have nothing to do with British Government, maybe the UK will lease Diego Garcia to the US for combat operation, that's about it. The same reason why the Brits was absent from Vietnam War.......

This article is too jokish to actually believe it was real...

 

[DaiViet]

I know for sure China sinks many vietnamese poor fishermen ships in scs outside of 12nm. They even block Vietnam coast guard on rescue mission but they afraid to touch U.S. That is obvious.

Chinese boats tried to sabotage Vietnam’s rescue mission near Paracels: officials | Politics | Thanh Nien Daily

 

[AMDR]

Can't wait for the actual footage...

But what a beautiful ship!

USS Lassen (DDG-82)

Meanwhile in the dreams of the CPC...

 

[Cossack25A1]

Can't wait for the actual footage...
Meanwhile in the dreams of the CPC...
View attachment 267534

What show is this?

It's 2015, you doubt China's ability to sink ships without these islands.

That's THE problem - what if China sinks one US Navy ship that just passes by?

 

[Nilgiri]

That's THE problem - what if China sinks one US Navy ship that just passes by?

Chinese are not dumb enough to do that. They be cold calculating SOB's....but definitely not dumb.

 

[Cossack25A1]

just as PLAN sailing through Alaskan waters is demonstrating freedom of navigation and Taiwanese ships sailing into Philippine waters is also demonstrating right of innocent passage, yet Filipino regime kills unarmed Taiwanese sailors. Zero Filipino sailors have been killed by the Chinese navy. And then you wonder, why are the islands being militarized? What did we do wrong? LMAO GTFO.

Alaska is a natural land, those island on SCS are not.

And why is it that you love bringing an old mistake we made? Do you want us Filipinos to kill some of your fishermen so just you could take delight on how "savage" we are that you are drooling for an invasion plot against us?!

Chinese are not dumb enough to do that. They be cold calculating SOB's....but definitely not dumb.

Well there are times that dumb decisions have been done in the past by every superpowers that had existed.

 

[Nilgiri]

Do you want us Filipinos to kill some of your fishermen so just you could take delight on how "savage" we are that you are drooling for an invasion plot against us?!

Can PH open up Subic bay for military use by SCS coalition forces (US, Japan + possibly India etc) to refuel/replenish/visit? Has that option been considered anywhere?

 

[TaiShang]

Apparently there is a change in the status quo. Buckling down under the US pressure would be a miscalculation for UK since China guarantees that SCS FON is under protection and China, more than anybody else, cares about it being the largest trading nation in the world.

UK's opportunism might as well serve another dent in the subservient nature of Atlanticism.

 

[Cossack25A1]

Can PH open up Subic bay for military use by SCS coalition forces (US, Japan + possibly India etc) to refuel/replenish/visit? Has that option been considered anywhere?

It has been re-opened, though we are making another naval base in Oyster Bay in Palawan which is nearer to the contested region in SCS.

 

[Genesis]

That's THE problem - what if China sinks one US Navy ship that just passes by?

Why would we do that? You got to see between the lines. China is filing complains, but not doing anything. YET, in the last few years, increase fighter sorties, both to intercept and to challenge in the East Sea. Spy ship off to RIMPAC, submarines, and other ships into both US territorial waters, and other country's EEZ and territorial waters when called upon.

The final goal is to be able to do exactly what the US is doing to the US and others, not to actually stop these actions. They benefit the nations that can actually do them.

Think of it like a billionaire, before they were rich, they call for higher taxes for the rich to even the playing field, as soon as they become rich themselves, the narrative changes. But this only seem fun if you can actually change the narrative.

Alaska is a natural land, those island on SCS are not.

And why is it that you love bringing an old mistake we made? Do you want us Filipinos to kill some of your fishermen so just you could take delight on how "savage" we are that you are drooling for an invasion plot against us?!

Alaska is natural land, but the US is currently treading these islands as natural land, because transit is ALLOWED. I never understood the need for this move, as it's not much of a move, unless military action is to be taken.( I don't mean killing, just any action not sanctioned in the UNCLOS)

Until I see a report that says otherwise, this move doesn't make sense yet.

Can PH open up Subic bay for military use by SCS coalition forces (US, Japan + possibly India etc) to refuel/replenish/visit? Has that option been considered anywhere?

I'm sure they can do this now. What you are suggesting isn't a base, just plain visits which China is currently doing in Europe somewhere.

 

[AMDR]

Can PH open up Subic bay for military use by SCS coalition forces (US, Japan + possibly India etc) to refuel/replenish/visit? Has that option been considered anywhere?

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/09/2...ubic-bay.html?referer=https://www.google.com/

What show is this?

No clue

 

[Genesis]

Well there are times that dumb decisions have been done in the past by every superpowers that had existed.

True, but usually not against other superpowers.

Russians shot down a Korean airline, America did the same to an Iranian one. Neither has shot each other's down.

Which is why nonalignment is good, this proxy war stuff is really only fun for the superpowers. Not the countries getting pounded on.

 

[TaiShang]

The final goal is to be able to do exactly what the US is doing to the US and others, not to actually stop these actions.

 

[Genesis]

What show is this?

American propaganda. What did you think it was.