Some newly launched and upcoming cars from Chinese auto companies (Ed2)

[ZeEa5KPul]

See this thread I have yet to finish:
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/an-i...-gearboxes-from-chinese-car-companies.638807/
The specs of car engines from Chinese auto companies are actually pretty nice now. The reliability needs time to test, but for today's technology is very mature, the reliability of car engines are not a big issue.

No disrespect, but your post proves my point. Not a single engine there has a power-to-displacement ratio greater than 150. Nowhere close.

 

[HAIDER]

A totally different kind of technology set is about to be launched in market. The main theme will be : environmentally friendly cars. By this move, OIL war might be ending in near future, and, big manufacturing giants might fall.
So dear world, prepare or get ready for sudden death.

Germany and UK already pass the regulation for the adoption of environment friendly cars by year 2025 max .

 

[Kai Liu]

No disrespect, but your post proves my point. Not a single engine there has a power-to-displacement ratio greater than 150. Nowhere close.

Buddy, do you mean 150hp per liter? Could you list some car engine used in family car (not the expensive race or sports cars) which can achieve that number?
BTW, power to displacement is not the only measure of car engine performance. Torque, and thermal efficiency are also important.

Some small displacement 3 cylinder engines with a power per liter exceed 100KW: Geely's JLF-3G10TD is on the top with a power per liter of 100 KW as well as the GAC 3A10J1 engine:

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

Buddy, do you mean 150hp per liter? Could you list some car engine used in family car (not race cars) which can achieve that number?
BTW, power to displacement is not the only measure of car engine performance. Torque, and thermal efficiency are also important.

Yes, 150hp per litre, give or take 10%. One engine is the S58B30T0 (in the BMW B58 family, 3.0L 473hp) used in the BMW X3, X4, and M3. Another (although weaker but still in the class) is the Mercedes M256 (3.0L, 429hp), used in the S500. These are engines used in luxury cars, but Hongqi is a luxury marque and its engines are 110hp per liter. Where are China's performance engines?

Some small displacement 3 cylinder engines with a power per liter exceed 100KW: Geely's JLF-3G10TD is on the top with a power per liter of 100 KW as well as the GAC 3A10J1 engine:

Thanks for the list. I don't know jack about cars and you seem knowledgeable so I'll ask you: how would you rate China's state-of-the-are ICE performance relative to the world leaders?

 

[Kai Liu]

Yes, 150hp per litre, give or take 10%. One engine is the S58B30T0 (in the BMW B58 family, 3.0L 473hp) used in the BMW X3, X4, and M3. Another (although weaker but still in the class) is the Mercedes M256 (3.0L, 429hp), used in the S500. These are engines used in luxury cars, but Hongqi is a luxury marque and its engines are 110hp per liter. Where are China's performance engines?

Well, I think the Hongqi engine is comparable to the engine on BMW X5 or Audi Q7 in terms of hp per liter, these are the cars of the same class as Hongqi HS7.
Bro, we have already shifted to PHEV or EV in performance cars. Even the old Generation BYD Tang PHEV can be comparable with a Ferrari in acceleration test:

While the NIO EP9 can beat everything:

 

[Kai Liu]

Thanks for the list. I don't know jack about cars and you seem knowledgeable so I'll ask you: how would you rate China's state-of-the-are ICE performance relative to the world leaders?

In terms of thermal efficiency, I think some of our engines like the Chery 1.6 Liter TGDI engine, with a thermal efficiency of 41%, which is top level for a turbocharge engine.
http://www.xinhuanet.com/auto/2019-07/12/c_1124743883.htm

The specs for the Hongqi engine is comparable to the 3.0L engine on Audi Q7 and BMW X5:
FAW Hongqi:
http://newcar.xcar.com.cn/3536/config.htm

Audi Q7:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_Q7

And BMW X5:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_X5_(G05)

But for high performance sports car engine, I think our car manufacturers are reluctant to spend money on them due to the positioning of the brand has yet to reach that level. People buy luxury or race cars for a symbol of status. This is not a matter of capability but willingness and practical considerations.

However, as I have mentioned, in EV and PHEV field, we are currently world leaders, with the world class research centers both for the batteries and powertrain systems. A lot of super cars have been developed or are under development:

Hongqi S9 under developement: 0-100km within 1.9 sec:

BYD HAN:
700km range
0-100km within 2.9 sec:
https://chejiahao.m.autohome.com.cn/info/3338726

 

[I S I]

Which new technology are they bringing to market? Electric?, hybrid?, fuel-cell? Because of all already exist and in electric apparently Tesla is leading. But I will definitely wait for some good German alternative because for me Tesla is an ugly and substandard car in every aspect other than electric drive aspect. The panels on Tesla do not fit (not flush with body) especially on Model 3

Lmao banned xD

 

[Kai Liu]

Byton M-type EV

 

[Georg]

Buddy, do you mean 150hp per liter? Could you list some car engine used in family car

2015 VW 2.0l (1984cc) TSI 300hp 151hp/l
Used in Golf, Audi S3, Seat Leon Cupra

2016 Audi 2.5 400hp 160hp/l
Used in Audi RS3 and TT

2013 Mercedes 2.0l 360hp 180hp/l
used in A-Class

2016 Mercedes 2.0l 380hp 190hp/l
used in A-Class

2016 Ford 2.3l 350hp 152hp/l
used in Focus and as base engine in Mustang

2017 Honda 2.0l 320hp 160hp/l
used in Civic

none of them are sport cars... they are "sporty" version of comapct class cars...nothing fancy about them

 

[Kai Liu]

2015 VW 2.0l (1984cc) TSI 300hp 151hp/l
Used in Golf, Audi S3, Seat Leon Cupra

2016 Audi 2.5 400hp 160hp/l
Used in Audi RS3 and TT

2013 Mercedes 2.0l 360hp 180hp/l
used in A-Class

2016 Mercedes 2.0l 380hp 190hp/l
used in A-Class

2016 Ford 2.3l 350hp 152hp/l
used in Focus and as base engine in Mustang

2017 Honda 2.0l 320hp 160hp/l
used in Civic

none of them are sport cars... they are "sporty" version of comapct class cars...nothing fancy about them

They are not racing cars, but sporty cars. These engines are not rocket science at all... Nothing special. As long as you spend money, you can achieve.

As I have already mentioned, Chinese car manufacturers are NOT going to spend billions to build some internal combustion engine sporty cars... Our focus is on high performance EVs and PHEVs.

Or some affordable EV/PHEVs with reasonable high performance.

 

[Georg]

They are not racing cars, but sporty cars. These engines are not rocket science at all... Nothing special. As long as you spend money, you can achieve.

As I have already mentioned, Chinese car manufacturers are NOT going to spend billions to build some internal combustion engine sporty cars... Our focus is on high performance EVs and PHEVs.

Or some affordable EV/PHEVs with reasonable high performance.

they are not the only one....

in a first real world test the Porsche Tuscan Turbo S beat the Tesla Model S Performance Ludicrous+ in the UK... 1/4mile, rolling start, braking, cornering, charge speed, topspeed, handling

VW started the iD3 other than Tesla they completely developt the car and are ready for mass production in hundret of thousends a year... they already sold 600.000 MEB chassis on which the ID3 is based on to the Ford Motor Company for a Ford version build on this chassie, whith the option for more chassies for a second model.
Several months ago VW claimed they already have the resources fixed to build 52million EV´s

People tend to forget who in the world hold the world wide patents on EV´s technology....

23% USA
18% Japan
9% rest of the world (including China)
50% Europe

Electric cars get developt and build in Europa in France and Germany since the Olimpic games in Munic in 1972.
For example the first VW Golf all electric was from 1976 since that date there was a electric Golf avaible in every generation. The new 8th generation will be the first getting no electric version because VW sell the ID3

1972 BMW 2002 Elektro Antrieb

it was used during the 1972 summer olympics during the Marathon and long distance walking competition that the runnes dont have to run in the exhurst gas of supporting vehicles.

The frensh had even more models including city delivery vans...

That small but 5 to 6 decade long development completely out of the radar of the world press is the reason why europe dominate the patent rights on EV technology.

EV future in the world only possible with Europe

BTW the lap record for EV production cars is this one

and that the EV overal record

 

[Kai Liu]

they are not the only one....

in a first real world test the Porsche Tuscan Turbo S beat the Tesla Model S Performance Ludicrous+ in the UK... 1/4mile, rolling start, braking, cornering, charge speed, topspeed, handling

VW started the iD3 other than Tesla they completely developt the car and are ready for mass production in hundret of thousends a year... they already sold 600.000 MEB chassis on which the ID3 is based on to the Ford Motor Company for a Ford version build on this chassie, whith the option for more chassies for a second model.
Several months ago VW claimed they already have the resources fixed to build 52million EV´s

People tend to forget who in the world hold the world wide patents on EV´s technology....

23% USA
18% Japan
9% rest of the world (including China)
50% Europe

Electric cars get developt and build in Europa in France and Germany since the Olimpic games in Munic in 1972.
For example the first VW Golf all electric was from 1976 since that date there was a electric Golf avaible in every generation. The new 8th generation will be the first getting no electric version because VW sell the ID3

1972 BMW 2002 Elektro Antrieb

it was used during the 1972 summer olympics during the Marathon and long distance walking competition that the runnes dont have to run in the exhurst gas of supporting vehicles.

The frensh had even more models including city delivery vans...

That small but 5 to 6 decade long development completely out of the radar of the world press is the reason why europe dominate the patent rights on EV technology.

EV future in the world only possible with Europe

BTW the lap record for EV production cars is this one

These old "patents" proves nothing... Just like our Huawei 5g technology does not care anything about Nokia or whatever 4g or 3g tech...
The core technology for EV is the battery: its capacity and charge time. Other things are old tech like the motor or whatever, you may apply a million patens out of it, but the basic technology is no different from a battery toy car... Even though, can you provide the source that say 50% of EV patents are from Europe??? Seems boasting to me unless you can prove it... If you mean the useless old expired ones, then never mind...

Then take a look at the scene in lithium ion battery, which is the dominant power source for EVs today:

*CATL and BYD are Chinese companies.
https://seekingalpha.com/article/4136035-investing-car-batteries-space

Some old data from 2011:
patents by country:
I notice Europe (Germany+France) has 4% of shares, maybe another 1% from the category of "others"...

https://www.nanowerk.com/spotlight/spotid=21950.php

Nevertheless, number of patents can hardly reflect the reality on the ground, as far as I know, tonnes of rubbish patents are out there...people can hire an agent to write and file a patent with a 3 days of paperwork done... lol...

Then let's see what is really happening in the real world:
Market:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car_use_by_country

Who is providing the high-performance and affordable batteries?

https://www.benchmarkminerals.com/who-is-winning-the-global-lithium-ion-battery-arms-race/

Who can provide the most affordable and high performance EV/PHEVs?

BYD Tang PHEV/EV, a Highlander sized SUV, starts just from a little bit over ~30,000 USD with 600hp power and 950 Nm of torque, and a 0~100km/h accelerate time of 4.3 sec...
http://newcar.xcar.com.cn/2549/config.htm

With EV technology, Chinese domestic EV companies have already realize the electrification of all bus fleets and majority of taxi fleets in several mega cities including Shenzhen and Guangzhou (both are cities with population close to 15 million), BYD buses and street sweepers and other commercial vehicles are all around the world, including the USA, Japan, Australia, Europe (such as UK, SWEDEN, DEMARK, GREECE, GERMANY, etc. etc...), Latin America, India, SE Asia, etc etc... Every corner of the world... Only BYD made all this possible with its cost effective solutions.

As for high-performance cars, like the Nürburgring record, some cars will always break it, no car will retain the record forever, just like no supercomputer can remain the fastest one forever...

 

[Kai Liu]

EV is not a new technology @Georg, it can be dated back to this thing made by the French guy Gustave Trouvé in 1881:

However, who can provide the most practical solution is the most important thing to succeed in this field, not about how powerful or how fancy the technology. At the present, China is clearly one of the leading players. The success of EVs depend more on batteries rather than car makers:

https://www.thedrive.com/tech/21875...on-battery-contract-with-chinese-company-catl

Again, faster charging and longer range are the critical requirement for EVs to meet before they can become really practical, especially for a huge country like China. For now, lithium ion battery are reaching its limit, the revolutionary breakthrough are needed, likely in the field such as graphene:
a 3 year old news:

Forgive the Lee-ion battery...lol... The reporter's English sucks...

Number of patents on graphene applications:

https://content.sciendo.com/view/journals/jdis/3/1/article-p82.xml

In this aspects, China could rule the future of EVs!

 

[rott]

@Kai Liu bro, if you can post more of internal combustion engine from Chinese car makers.

 

[Georg]

highest R&D spending in car industr by far... Volkswagen
over 30% of all international Patents for EV are in Germany (over 50% all EU members)
50% of all international patents on autonomus driving are in Germany (2010 till today)
Compared to other world regions, the EU auto sector ($54billion Germany allone $40billion) by far leads the way in terms of R&D investment. Japan comes second in the global ranking with an investment of €29.8 billion per year, followed by the US with €18.5 billion. In fourth place comes China with €5.4 billion, or just one tenth of the EU’s annual spending.(12-2018)