Some disscussion between me & Kasmiri guys(ex friends now I guess)

[KRAIT]

@liontk You bring Canada and its stance in this discussion ? Can you not connect IA presence in Kashmir with your country, Canada and other NATO countries in Iraq, Afghanistan war ?

Why these double standards ?

You do the similar things on similar reasons.

 

[liontk]

Dude I am concerned about security of Kashmiris. Even if they get merged with Pakistan, considering the current condition in Pakistan, I will be equally worried. That's why this is necessary to discuss.

Good point monsieur Krait but there has been too much violence and strife on both sides, there has to be an immediate settlement and stop to violence, just look at what armstrong family has had to go through. Its always the innocents that suffer from this and in the case of afzal guru case, 7 security officials family are now missing their loved ones due to some politicians pride to make kashmir an integral part of their countries and this goes for some pakistani politicians too.

 

[karan.1970]

Then why is India afraid of holding referendum? if what you claim is true then you must go for referendum and as per your claim India will win right

Because Pakistan has not fulfilled the pre conditions of that referendum for last 65 years. Read the resolution first

 

[liontk]

@liontk You bring Canada and its stance in this discussion ? Can you not connect IA presence in Kashmir with your country, Canada and other NATO countries in Iraq, Afghanistan war ?

Why these double standards ?

You do the similar things on similar reasons.

I appologize if I bring Canada often not attempting to offend your nation but our countrie has a history of solving conflicts through neutral arbitration and it has become a part of canadienne identity. Our peacekeeping efforts led by honourable primeministre pearson revolutioned the world in diplomacy, peacekeeping has worked in Suez canal conflict, cyprus, bosnia and golan heights to certain extent. I believe most canadienne think that canada plays a critical role in bridging gaps between communities.

 

[KRAIT]

Good point monsieur Krait but there has been too much violence and strife on both sides, there has to be an immediate settlement and stop to violence, just look at what armstrong family has had to go through. Its always the innocents that suffer from this and in the case of afzal guru case, 7 security officials family are now missing their loved ones due to some politicians pride to make kashmir an integral part of their countries and this goes for some pakistani politicians too.

Well we didn't started sending Jehadists in Kashmir. And when we moved for Peace by Lahore Bus, they gave us kargil. When we started Aman ki Asha (Hope for Peace) initiative, they gave us 26/11. US citizens were also killed.

So tell me what should we do ? Keep extending hands for peace while they kill our innocent people by Terrorists supported by Pakistan.

You are Canadian and your country is fighting with same Taliban which was supported by Pakistan.

Same people are now attacking Pakistan, the snakes they fed.

You waged war on Iraq and Afghanistan on death of just 3000 people in 9/11 and so called WMD, but we lost over 80,000 people in terrorist attacks in Kashmir, 166 in Mumbai, Mumbai bomb blasts etc.

ell me aren't we showing restraint. Why don't you ask your govt. to move against Pakistan. Even UN has declared LeT and Hafeez Saeed as terrorist, US has bounty of $ 10 million on that guy who lives in open in Pakistan. This is same Hafeez Saeed who was the master mind behind killings of Indians and Americans in Mumbai.

We need world's support on uprooting terrorism once and for all.

 

[KS]

You want your current citizens to move to pakistan, are you serious or trolling because it does not seem like your serious.

You dont seem to know the history of India-Pakistan or the events that transpired in 1947. Oh and that 2% figure is not out of all Indan population, but of the Kashmiri population itself. Only 2% of Kashmiris want to join Pakistan. If its extrapolated to indian population it would be 0.00001% or something.

As for Indienne Army having blood on their hands I would quote Golda Meir - “When peace comes we will perhaps in time be able to forgive the Arabs for killing our sons, but it will be harder for us to forgive them for having forced us to kill their sons.”

First comes kashmiri people

then comes pakistan or inde interest.

Read India-Pakistan history, Partition, the migrations & massacres. Without that background knowledge you are just wasting people's time here.

 

[INDIC]

Because Pakistan has not fulfilled the pre conditions of that referendum for last 65 years. Read the resolution first

Lord Mountbatten offered Jinnah a collective referendum in Kashmir along with Hyderabad and Junagarh but Jinnah rejected that offer because of the fear of losing Junagarh and Hyderabad.

 

[Pakistanisage]

@Pakistanisage Well buddy, my whole point is that. You got treated well and our Muslims are also get treated well .

We even made Muslims, Our President, Vice President, Chief Justices of India, Super stars, and many more. Indian Muslims achieved it and all the propaganda fed to you about plight of Indian Muslim is just hog wash. Those who do hard work gets equal treatment.

But I want you to provide me an honest assessment and comparison of Pakistani Hindus and Indian Muslims, who are minority in Pakistan and India respectively ?

Hope you can differentiate propaganda from truth, just like you want me to,

You just proved my point and gave me a valid argument to back my reply.

The Hindus in Pakistan mostly live in Sindh province and they are Filthyy rich ( even average Sindhi Hindu is far more prosperous than Sindhi Muslim ) which is why they prefer to live in Pakistan, inspite of the booming economy of India most of them have preferred to live in Pakistan. The Muslims in India are at the bottom of the Economic ladder ( and please don't quote Azim Premji who is the exception that proves the rule ). Indian Muslims are victims of an institutionalized discrimination against them by the ruling class.

If you want to really look at the pathetic condition of Muslims in India, you don't have to believe me but just read the Sachar Commission Report and you will know the facts.

 

[KRAIT]

The Hindus in Pakistan mostly live in Sindh province and they are ****** rich ( even average Sindhi Hindu is far more prosperous than Sindhi Muslim ) which is why they prefer to live in Pakistan, inspite of the booming economy of India most of them have preferred to live in Pakistan. The Muslims in India are at the bottom of the Economic ladder ( and please don't quote Azim Premji who is the exception that proves the rule ). Indian Muslims are victims of an institutionalized discrimination against them by the ruling class.If you want to really look at the pathetic condition of Muslims in India, you don't have to believe me but just read the Sachar Commission Report and you will know the facts.

Shahrukh Khan, Salman Khan, Amir Khan, Javed Akhtar, Fardeen Khan, Mohammad Azharruddin, Mohammed Kaif, APJ Abdul Kalam etc. etc. Should I go on ?

Tell me 5 Hindus who had highest post in Pakistan.

BTW in India there are Ahemadiyas and they don't have to sign a official paper that their Prophet is impostor and they are non-Muslims.

Talk about social and economic positions held by Indian Muslims and Pakistani Hindus. Also tell me why Pakistani Hindus decreased in population while Indian Muslims increased in India ?

Tell me where how many Muslims are killed in India by Hindus and Muslims in Pakistan by Muslims in last 10 years.

Minorities in India are much safer than minorities of Pakistan.They also have major influence in India in every field too.

 

[Jade]

Shahrukh Khan, Salman Khan, Amir Khan, Javed Akhtar, Fardeen Khan, Mohammad Azharruddin, Mohammed Kaif, APJ Abdul Kalam etc. etc. Should I go on ?

Tell me 5 Hindus who had highest post in Pakistan.

BTW in India there is Ahemadiyas have not to sign a official paper that their Prophet is impostor and they are non-Muslims.

Talk about social and economic positions held by Indian Muslims and Pakistani Hindus. Also tell me why Pakistani Hindus decreased in population while increased in India.

Tell me where how many Muslims are killed in India by Hindus and Muslims in Pakistan by Muslims in last 10 years.

Minorities in India are much safer than minorities of Pakistan.They also have major influence in India in every field too.

Nice post Krait. I am sure he will not be able to answer any of them

 

[KRAIT]

Nice post Krait. I am sure he will not be able to answer any of them

He might be searching the names. I just remembered these names in few seconds. I can give more in few seconds again.

I haven't brought Christians, Jains, Sikhs etc.

They talk about Minorities rights in India.

 

[Pakistanisage]

Shahrukh Khan, Salman Khan, Amir Khan, Javed Akhtar, Fardeen Khan, Mohammad Azharruddin, Mohammed Kaif, APJ Abdul Kalam etc. etc. Should I go on ?

Tell me 5 Hindus who had highest post in Pakistan.

BTW in India there is Ahemadiyas have not to sign a official paper that their Prophet is impostor and they are non-Muslims.

Talk about social and economic positions held by Indian Muslims and Pakistani Hindus. Also tell me why Pakistani Hindus decreased in population while increased in India.

Tell me where how many Muslims are killed in India by Hindus and Muslims in Pakistan by Muslims in last 10 years.

Minorities in India are much safer than minorities of Pakistan.They also have major influence in India in every field too.

I think you have already lost the argument when you start naming individuals as opposed to talking about the community at large. There are over 200 million Muslims in India ( Most Indian Muslimns will tell you how the Indian govt. undercounts Indian Muslims in census ) and you cannot quote few Bollywood types to prove a point. The fact is that as an group the 200 million Indian Muslims are at the bottom of Indian Population. Read the Sachar Committee Report because I do not want to reprint the whole report here. It explains the plight of Indian Muslims state by state and sector by sector.



Sachar Committee Report - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




The Pakistani Hindus on the other hand are at the highest level of prosperity on a per capita basis.

 

[acid rain]

He might be searching the names. I just remembered these names in few seconds. I can give more in few seconds again.

I haven't brought Christians, Jains, Sikhs etc.

They talk about Minorities rights in India.

He would be hard pressed to name a single Pakistani Hindu / Sikh / Christian PDF member even - because they don't exist and that is pretty strange.

 

[KRAIT]

@<u><a href="http://www.defence.pk/forums/member.php?u=41713" target="_blank">Pakistanisage</a></u> Sachar committe is ridiculed by many neutral sources. I know the reality from social issues, factors.

As for examples, you talked of Azim Premji, I gave you other example.

Also, the ex-MLA of our State Assembly from my home town was A Muslim. And there is very less population of Muslims. You guys have been fed propaganda.

After all proving TNT true and show Indian Muslims as victim, is the whole basis of Existence of Pakistan.

Why are just concerned about Muslims. Aren't Christians, Sikhs, Jains minority too ?

Oh wait, all you care is Muslims all around the world. Rest of the people from other religions don't matter yo you.

Watch this video.

 

[Contrarian]

I think you have already lost the argument when you start naming individuals as opposed to talking about the community at large. There are over 200 million Muslims in India ( Most Indian Muslimns will tell you how the Indian govt. undercounts Indian Muslims in census ) and you cannot quote few Bollywood types to prove a point. The fact is that as an group the 200 million Indian Muslims are at the bottom of Indian Population. Read the Sachar Committee Report because I do not want to reprint the whole report here. It explains the plight of Indian Muslims state by state and sector by sector.



Sachar Committee Report - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




The Pakistani Hindus on the other hand are at the highest level of prosperity on a per capita basis.

Simple reason. The Muslim middle class entirely migrated out of India during partition. The elite muslims and peasant muslims were left behind. The elite muslims have deliberately not let the muslim community prosper or get educated, for they would lose their vote banks. They have kept the muslims focused on islam and madrassa's and on non issues deliberately while their own children studied in the most elite schools of India and abroad.

However sustained economic changes in India since 1990's have made an impact on the muslim social fabric as well. While they have been left out of the economic boom simply because they were not educated enough to grasp it, today there is indeed a rising muslim middle class.

And while this middle class is currently small as a percentage of the total muslim population in India, it is growing rapidly. In about another 10 years you would find a major difference with respect to the economic position of muslims in India.

There is a major reason why among all the minorities, Muslims have low economic mobilization, very low literacy, while Christians, Sikhs and Jains - ALL have social indicators - literacy, employement, etc that are above the avg Hindu social indicators.