No its not, a war against them all would resemble what we did to Germany and Japan.
Well you cannot do what you did to the Germans and the Japanese just because times are different (although one never knows) and the nature of the war is slightly different. However fighting CI is a tricky affair and if you are not effective in weaning off the support from the insurgency and in turn alienate the people further then it becomes a matter of perception.
Incorrect, look for yourself the fighting started in 78, this is what prompted a Soviet invasion.
Again there was no in-fighting between factions. The Soviets were playing king makers and the violence was as a result of their positioning of folks who then decided to not toe their line and then were eliminated by the Soviets eventually leading to invasion.
Reread what I wrote. I specifically pointed out the shia nature of the Iran-Iraq war. The army was not trusted, it was seen as an instrument of the Baa'thist
The Army could have been made to be trusted. The Republican Guard was the Baathist entity. That should have been disbanded, not the entire Iraqi Army and the police force.
So any one who disagrees with you doe snot know what they are talking about? There goes the conversation.
No I did not mean that. You are fine to disagree. However I do feel that you have some holes in your recall of history. Forget the point about me suggesting you do not know what you are talking about. I did not intend it that way.
What admin, what taliban leaders, names please.
I owe you that. Need to dig it up in the books. Will come back to you with the year/names etc.
United Islamic Front for the Salvation of Afghanistan was created in 96 from the imediate post war group that ended the communists.
I am 36 and a polisci/history major who served in the US Army duing the Cold war please do not insult me.
I respect that and have no intent to insult you, I find some of the stuff you state to be off the mark thus suggesting to you quite frankly that those of us who lived in the region throughout the Soviet war and then the whole Taliban mess in Afghanistan have a perspective which is different from what one may read in the books in the West and in college/Uni.
I've pointed out several that you ignored.
Not one aside from that of USSR provides a case of such diversity of ethinicities as that of Iraq. That was my point.
But 9/11 did happen. The US doesn't go around killing Pakistanis for fun or profit, but kills those who kill. try to kill or aid those who do- Americans. You keep ignoring this fact or attributing it to legitimate resistance, its not. If they live in Pakistan they are Pakistani, If Pakistan won't or can't control them it places no obligation on the US to let its troops be killed without recourse. The predator strikes are in response to Pakistan's failure to end this support from its territory for a war on the US.
Yes it did and if I may also many other atrocities far worse than 9/11. As I mentioned, you were in your right and were supported by all, including all of the Muslim countries, to punish those who had committed this large scale murder of innocent civilians in the United State. However that was back in 2001, we are now in 2009 after having waged two wars (one at least totally unnecessary) and the other one being fought on without any end goals.
You keep on talking about US wanting to kill whoever does this or that, well lets first realize why some Pashtun Taliban from a backwater village in a remote part of Afghanistan wants to fight you. Its not a case where every Afghan Pashtun is imbued with what you refer to as the "wahabbi" zeal. Most of the Afghan Pashtuns don't subscribe to this school of thought. However what they do have issues with is a foreign occupation force in their land. You being a History major would surely know that Afghans have never been positively inclined towards outsiders. Such is the case even now and that is why you are being attacked inside of Afghanistan (and not United States mind you) and Pashtuns living in Pakistani tribal areas support there kinsmen in this war.
I have already expounded in great detail why this affinity exists between the Pakistani Pashtun and the Afghan Pashtun and the reason for it is that in the eyes of the Pashtun, they are a Pashtun first and then if being a Pakistani makes their life more convenient then they become a Pakistani pashtun, otherwise an Afghan. The border matters little to them.
we will see. The biggest impediment to victory is a lack of will to really fight a war. General Sherman said, "Every attempt to make war easy and safe will result in humiliation and disaster." and, "I would make this war as severe as possible, and show no symptoms of tiring till the South begs for mercy." and perhaps most importantly, "My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom. "
Thats how you fight a war, and the way the US should fight. Take the damn gloves off drive up the body count and knock some sense into people. It works, its crual barbarous and evil but it works. Look at the Devil's wind following the Sepoy Rebellion. The Brits wanted colonial mastery in addition to retribution but the principle is the same. Make war to horrible to wage.
You can try that. It will not work. It did not work in Vietnam for as many reasons as I can line up in Afghanistan. US is a superpower, however every power has a certain limit. Linebacker operations were conducted to bomb the hell out of the communists in Vietnam. The only thing that these did was to bring them to the table. It did not defeat the other side. You lost more support in doing so. You can surely try the same in Afghanistan, but if history is anything to go by, I do not see much success with this approach. Secondly, what are you bombing in Afghanistan and what is left to bomb? Every single firefight results in US air strikes called in by JTAC/FACs on the ground. You want to expand the campaign then where do you do it?
Russians did exactly what you are suggesting here. They bombed the villages and townships inside of Afghanistan to kill the support for the insurgency. They killed 1 million Afghans. Do you think the US would fare any better taking out 2 million Afghans? How so and to what end? All very difficult choices and none provide the solution you seek.
The Predator strikes are a watered down form of that and watering down leads to more death and destruction in the long run that total war.
Again Predator strikes are just one facet of the overall campaign. As I mentioned earlier, it would be interesting to see if such attacks have done anything to dent the Taliban operations in Afghanistan.
Un-huh, cause a large party of armed men was moving along the ridges into an ambush position looking for a lost girl. They were Taliban, they chose their fate.
You missed the entire point. They were indeed combatants but what was their background?
They might all have been local, maybe not.
That "maybe not" part is a convenient way of avoiding the reality of this war.
its against those who make war on the US, not anyone else.
Make war on the US is different from making war against the US occupation of their country. A distinction needs to be made here. Lets not follow the misplaced logic of Mr. George Walker Bush when he suggested "you are either with us or against us". The real world does not work like that. I know the desire to see oneself always as the Knight in shining armour, however you were on the right after 9/11. After two ill-conceived wars, that idea is no longer as clear cut as you are making it out to be. Some re-evaluation or rethink is needed.
58% of the population disagrees. But then the Pashtuns are not very good at giving a hoot about that fact that over all they are not the majority, just the biggest single group.
Afghanistan without Pashtuns is not Afghanistan. You need to realize that without getting bogged down by the actions of Taliban and considering them to be representatives of Pashtuns only.
Thousands, it was the Pashtun Taliban that enabled 9-11. it was the Pashtun Taliban that chose on 9-12 to side with AQ and risk war with the US. 9-11 would not have been possible without the Taliban.
OK my friend. You waged you war. Where is it going now? We already know the ones who made the calls on the even of 9/12 are no longer active or even matter any longer. Insurgents inside of Afghanistan have local leaders and as has been the case all along, these groups are fighting the US/ISAF in a discontiguous form (there is no central command etc. despite the oft repeated bogey of Mullah Omar who is essentially gone with the wind).
We kicked a brutal terrorist aligned regime out of power, have the support of the majority of the population etc...
Thanks for doing that (I mean it), however the only problem is that once you did that, you had no idea how to fix this problem beyond the kicking down of the doors. So here you are 5 years after booting them from power, they are still running the countryside and causing problems for you because you give them a reason to exist, regroup and fight.
Unless and until the Pashtuns join the political process with the understanding they are not the sole voice for Afghanistan peace won't be achieved. The Pashtuns want the whole cake- we won't let them. We saw how that worked with the Taliban and we are not going to let that cancer reform.
Zraver,
Pashtuns are not asking to be the sole voice of Afghanistan. They never were and never will be owing to the country's fairly significant minorities including Tajiks who make up about 30% or so of the country. The point is that the Pashtuns should be given their due share based on being the largest ethnic group inside of Afghanistan. You cannot have peace in Afghanistan until you have the Pashtuns on board.
You keep on bringing up the Taliban as if all of the Pashtuns are Taliban. Many Pashtuns who are fighting have nothing to do with Taliban, yet they are practicing Muslims and have tribal links to others who may be members of the Taliban. These links do not make them problematic. The main issue is the occupation. You need to put a representative Afghan government, Army and police in place and then move on. That is the only way to have success in Afghanistan and relative peace in the region.
