Social Acceptability of the Talib & the Talib Ideology !

[Thorough Pro]

Pakistan should come up with a mational securiaty act and legally ban all anti state elements from all media. these scums are hurting Pakistan in big way.

Nothing succeeds like success (Pak Fauj U listening) and let me tell you that that the only thing that works is making the insurgent DEAD.


Media are much hyped as opinion makers, but in a place like Pakistan, it's what people experience that makes their opinion - when they experience the Pakistan Army succeeding, you will see a huge change in the media, in society - what the people are waiting for is to see whether someone can stand up to this and defeat it - Can that be the Pak Fauj? For such an eventuality the ethic of the Pak Fauj must change, can it do this?

 

[Sugarcane]

Nothing succeeds like success (Pak Fauj U listening) and let me tell you that that the only thing that works is making the insurgent DEAD.


Media are much hyped as opinion makers, but in a place like Pakistan, it's what people experience that makes their opinion - when they experience the Pakistan Army succeeding, you will see a huge change in the media, in society - what the people are waiting for is to see whether someone can stand up to this and defeat it - Can that be the Pak Fauj? For such an eventuality the ethic of the Pak Fauj must change, can it do this?

Pak Fauj can't do it alone, Max. they can do is use force to clean up the areas temporarily than comes the most important part - rehabilitation which must by done by civil institute to provide development, education & employment. Provide best policing to ensure security and safety of people, make laws to improve judicial system.

 

[Safriz]

In my opinion and my Observation , the like or dislike isn't for Taliban or Pakistan Army...
People Dislike the whole idea of WOT..and the worst part is America Poking their nose all the way...That really makes people angry.
If today USA stops drone attacks and stops dictating Pakistan Publicly on what to do and what not..the people of Pakistan will fully support Pakistan army.

 

[Karachiite]

or treated like one!

If you haven't seen poverty, disease,hunger, humiliation, then you won't understand. Don't be an ignorant. Why do educated people in Karachi blindly support MQM's mafia like terrorist activities? becaus ethey are made to believe through false propaganda that they are deprived............ don't be an ignorant and try to understand the problem.

First off you're an idiot for comparing Taliban to MQM. Last time I checked MQM made severe developments in Karachi, more than any other political party. But this thread is not about MQM it's about taliban so please don't try to divert it.

Except forthe foreign elements, these are the same poeople who lived here quite peacefully and honourable before this "War" started. People of swat were one of the most hospitable, decent, and simple people in the whole of Pakistan. No they were not vicious animals, No! they are not vicious animals. problem is much deeper and complex than you make it sound.

Obviously it is complex. They have become "vicious" through brainwashing. Countless madrassas have sprung up throughout Pakistan. The Wahabbi money coming in from Saudi Arabia has made madrassas a haven for Islamic extremism. Religious fundamentalism and tribal culture has aided in this taliban mess.

I do think Afghan Taliban and TTP are different, we are not discussing Afghan Taliban here. TTP was formed by Baitullah Mehsood,an afghan after he was released from Guantanamobay prison.I firmly believe the TTP is US sponsored pressure group, which has successfully exploited the social injustice through propaganda and become quite strong. There is no doubt in my mind that it as a SCUM and must be eliminated and at the same time potential target population for their propaganda should be educated / made aware that TTP is a wolf in sheep skin.

TTP and Afghan Taliban two different factions but the TTP sprung from the Afghan Taliban. Essentially their goals are the same. Many of the senior terrorists in TTP were members of the Afghan taliban. Had Pakistan not supported the taliban then this TTP mess would be non existent.
I'm not huge on conspiracy theories so I won't agree that TTP is US sponsored but yes it must be destroyed. But the government, the army and intelligence agencies have failed in containing this problem.

 

[muse]

Pakistan should come up with a national security act and legally ban all anti state elements from all media. these scums are hurting Pakistan in big way.

Then it will conflict with notions of freedom of speech -- some people have said that all organs of the state have failed, that is to say that it is the lack of development that has led to radicalization - I mean the same Pakistanis in UAE or Arabia insist on obeying laws but in Pakistan insist on disobeying laws because they think/feel that they have role in society except being exploited.

All this root and branch causes business, is just that, navel gazing - want to be rid of extremists?, speed them on their way to Paradise, their Jannat, our Jahanum.

 

[Edevelop]

The fact of the matter is, the Pakistani Army themselves had created Taliban, starting with the fear of Soviet Union's ambitions to extend greater territory down south. Although along with the U.S it was a success, rather i would say it was for a very short period. In my opinion, right after the war, Zia Ul-Haq could have taken control and put them to an end. Many here would be asking how ? Well my answer would have been simple. Enrol them into your own professional army. They are culturally driven by force so one way or another a force such as your very own military would have been a perfect fit. It was better to have them in one group than many. There would have been no TTP, Afghan Taliban, Haqqani, and etc. Socially speaking, people don't forget the past and thats why you have people (some) who support these regimes. Again i'll bring back Zia into this. Since he was personally speaking very conservative, perhaps, this was primarily one of the main reasons why he freed them. Today the Taliban regime is more of a religious police and added autonomous to make their own laws. In today's reality you have to try to win the hearts and minds of the people. The Army, the Government, and along with the the Media really need to play smart.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Totally agree. this whole extremism is a direct consequence of american interference in Pakistan affairs. It's like making friends with enemy's enemies.

In my opinion and my Observation , the like or dislike isn't for Taliban or Pakistan Army...
People Dislike the whole idea of WOT..and the worst part is America Poking their nose all the way...That really makes people angry.
If today USA stops drone attacks and stops dictating Pakistan Publicly on what to do and what not..the people of Pakistan will fully support Pakistan army.

 

[Safriz]

I don't know how many of you are aware of or remember the 1990s uprising in sawat....It was a proper armed uprising Lead by Clerics and fully supported by almost the whole population of sawat and Malakand...
It never made much news and no prolonged WOT was fought on that....Because Pakistan Army was called in and at that time they were not being dictated by USA and acted on their own accord and as per their own Strategy and Planning...
I had a chance to talk to many of the people who were out in the mountains with Guns in their hands,and none of them had anything bad to say about PA..Because of the way PA handled the issue...

If same thing happens today..We will soon see long lasting peace...

 

[valkyr_96]

This is interesting because i have come across two people one from South Waziristan and one from North Waziristan
Even though i became close friends from SW guy he never complained/blamed the Army in fact one day he told me his house has collapsed but went out to say it wasn't because of Army shelling but because excess snow had piled on....he said he had everything back home his own land grew his own food but yes hed appreciate education he had gotten some.

The NWA guy straight out was anti Pak Army he said he had come across a "soldier" who had run away because an ambulance had arrived with his coffin(name on it) and that he was to be killed claiming that Taliban had attacked..i could understand if he was naive or plain dumb. If you'd remember the the sir pe Quran wala drama on TV he said if a person does that he can never lie and he said i was a kafr for not believing this......he went on to say what does Qaida mean and what does Taliban mean he said that they never bothered them but did ask for food and water

 

[VCheng]

.............

On a serious note, in Pakistan, the farther you go away from big cities, the more is the liking for the Army. That's because these guys have witnessed our sacrifices, those others who were born and brought up at the expense of others will never get it and hence the persistent moaning.

Actually, the farther you go away from the cities, the lesser the levels of education and socioeconomic condition. So the real reason for the support you mention is more due to a lack of the tools necessary for awareness, and not the presumptuous and pompous rationalization that you wish to pass off as intellectualism.

 

[Thorough Pro]

First off you're an idiot for comparing Taliban to MQM. Last time I checked MQM made severe developments in Karachi, more than any other political party. But this thread is not about MQM it's about taliban so please don't try to divert it.

An you are a bigger idot to not understand my analogy. lets just leave it there.

Obviously it is complex. They have become "vicious" through brainwashing. Countless madrassas have sprung up throughout Pakistan. The Wahabbi money coming in from Saudi Arabia has made madrassas a haven for Islamic extremism. Religious fundamentalism and tribal culture has aided in this taliban mess.

Stop blaming and bashing Maddrassah's broadly as the cause of this problem. Maddrassa's have existed in Pakistan for decades and suppored, fed, and educated thousands of poor people filling the role of NGO's. In such a huge network some might have been established purely for the recruitment purpose, and some already established might have become Taliban sympethizers, but blaming them all would be ignorance at best.

TTP and Afghan Taliban two different factions but the TTP sprung from the Afghan Taliban. Essentially their goals are the same. Many of the senior terrorists in TTP were members of the Afghan taliban. Had Pakistan not supported the taliban then this TTP mess would be non existent.
I'm not huge on conspiracy theories so I won't agree that TTP is US sponsored but yes it must be destroyed. But the government, the army and intelligence agencies have failed in containing this problem.

Pakistan's support had nothing to do with Taliban, it sprung as a result of injustices, extreme humiliation behaviour of Tajik war lords and became popular as it provided protection to supppressed in war torn Afghanistan and probably evolved in to Pushtoon vs Tajik force. Dynamics of an instable war-torn society (where three generations born in 24-hour war environment) are very difficult to understand and predict by outsiders, its all about survival.

Why Pakistan supported them, take your pick from anti-Pakistan Tajik war lords and Pro-Pakistan Pushtun Talibans.
Supporting Taliban was a natural no-brainer choice for Pakistan to bring peace to the region, and mind you it succeeded pretty wellin that, that is untill this ******* war on terror SHTF happened.

 

[Thorough Pro]

We need tounderstand the extremism is fueld by anti-amercian sentiment.Take ameriacans out of the equation and we will have peace in the region in no time.

I don't know how many of you are aware of or remember the 1990s uprising in sawat....It was a proper armed uprising Lead by Clerics and fully supported by almost the whole population of sawat and Malakand...
It never made much news and no prolonged WOT was fought on that....Because Pakistan Army was called in and at that time they were not being dictated by USA and acted on their own accord and as per their own Strategy and Planning...
I had a chance to talk to many of the people who were out in the mountains with Guns in their hands,and none of them had anything bad to say about PA..Because of the way PA handled the issue...

If same thing happens today..We will soon see long lasting peace...

 

[VCheng]

We need tounderstand the extremism is fueld by anti-amercian sentiment.Take ameriacans out of the equation and we will have peace in the region in no time.

What we do need to understand is that extremism is fueled not by anti-American sentiment, but by profound illiteracy, grinding poverty, pervasive injustice and abject hopelessness. Taking Americans out of the equation does nothing to change any of that and therefore it would be a mistake to assume that things will suddenly become peaceful after their departure.

 

[Thorough Pro]

What we do need to understand is that extremism is fueled not by anti-American sentiment, but by profound illiteracy, grinding poverty, pervasive injustice and abject hopelessness. Taking Americans out of the equation does nothing to change any of that and therefore it would be a mistake to assume that things will suddenly become peaceful after their departure.

Things that you mentionned have alwyas been there minus the extremism. It all started oue eyes with the start of WOTand american interference.

 

[VCheng]

Things that you mentionned have alwyas been there minus the extremism. It all started oue eyes with the start of WOTand american interference.

Please consider that the things I have mentioned have not been static, but have been slowly growing with overpopulation and have now reached a tipping point. Also consider that the attack of 9/11 that triggered the start of the WoT was another manifestation of the same growing extremism, and thus cannot be the cause.