Six killed in US drone strike in North Waziristan

[babajees]

Pakistan should do everything in its power to convince the US to use its drones against the TTP or the Pakistani Taliban. The drones target Gul Bahadar, Nazir and Hekmatyar along with the Haqannis. They should target Hakimullah Mehsud directly because he poses the number one threat to Pakistan at the moment.

Baitullah Mehsud, Wali ur Rehman, Naik Mohammad etc etc were not TTP??

 

[babajees]

Are people very stupid or very very stupid? On one hand they claim TTP is CIA funded scum and urge Pakistan Army (Second biggest aid reciever from USA after Israel) to get rid of them, on the other, they get happy when TTP terrorists die in drones!! Hypocrites!

Anyways, Bill Rogio says here that latest drone killed 2 TTP commanders that were about to attack American interest in Afghanistan:

Are people very stupid or very very stupid? On one hand they claim TTP is CIA funded scum and urge Pakistan Army (Second biggest aid reciever from USA after Israel) to get rid of them, on the other, they get happy when TTP terrorists die in drones!! Hypocrites!

Anyways, Bill Rogio says here that latest drone killed 2 TTP commanders that were about to attack American interests in Afghanistan:



Last Friday's drone strike by the US killed a "key" local Taliban commander who was preparing to lead a group of fighters into Afghanistan, according to the Pakistani press. The drone strike has drawn the ire of newly elected Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, who has been sympathetic to the Taliban in the past and seeks to negotiate with the terror group.

The June 7 drone strike in the Shawal area of North Waziristan killed a "key Pakistani Taliban commander" who was known as Mutaqi and Bahadar Khan, according to Dawn. The compound that Muqati and his followers were staying in was struck "when a pick-up truck arrived from the bordering area of Afghanistan." Six fighters are thought to have been killed in the strike.

Mutaqi and his fighters "were planning to cross over into Afghanistan via Pash Ziarat valley, a strategic corridor linking the South and North Waziristan Agency and considered a gateway to Afghanistan," Pakistani intelligence officials told the news agency.

The Obama administration has asserted that the CIA operated drones are no longer conducting "signature strikes" that target groups of fighters. Instead, the administration has claimed that the strikes are only directed at terrorists who present an "imminent threat" of attacking US soil.

Friday's drone strike sparked a harsh rebuke from Prime Minister Sharif. Yesterday, the the Pakistani Foreign Office summoned the US Charge d' Affaires and issued a demarche.

"It was conveyed to the US [Charge d' Affaires] that the Government of Pakistan strongly condemns the drone strikes which are a violation of Pakistan's sovereignty and territorial integrity," the Foreign Office noted in a press release. "The importance of bringing an immediate end to drone strikes was emphasized."

The US has conducted two drone strikes since Sharif's party won the parliamentary election in mid-May. Waliur Rehman, the deputy emir of the Movement of the Taliban in Pakistan, a faction that fights the Pakistani government, was killed in a drone strike on May 29. Before his death, Waliur Rehman had said that the Taliban is "attached" to al Qaeda, and acknowledged his forces are at war with the Pakistani government.

Read more: Local Taliban commander killed in last drone strike in Pakistan - The Long War Journal

 

[Secur]

Forgive me, but when my countrymen's lives are at stake, the word 'suspected' for those that have been killed is just not good enough.

That , my friend , is the ugly reality of fighting an unconventional warfare , the enemy doesn't wear uniforms which is precisely the advantage it enjoys against the state .

where are nooras?

Forget Nawaz Sharif , get the Maulana Diesel or Qazi Sahib in his place , let them face the same pressure and even wont be able to do anything Its easier to talk about things when you aren't in the place .

 

[W.11]

Well said.

However the interests are mutual and shared.

dear respected sir

where is your mota chor haramkhor ganja now?

 

[Jungibaaz]

That , my friend , is the ugly reality of fighting an unconventional warfare , the enemy doesn't wear uniforms which is precisely the advantage it enjoys against the state .

That's true.
Therefore, some damage to civilians is inevitable.

but you must admit buddy, the US who relies on shaky intelligence from Afghan informants, to launch these strikes on our tribals. That often kills many innocent civilians. And to make it worse, they spit in the faces of the families of those deceased by labelling them 'suspected militants' or 'other militants'.

It's my view that these drones are ineffective in specific areas where they target, and also counter productive in the long run and our effort as a whole. I could probably go on about this for hours...

But one final question buddy?
After 5 years of non-stop, savage use of drones in North Waziristan. Why are the taliban still there, why is it still their stronghold?

It is counter productive, and I;m sure you'll agree that the death of innocent tribals is disgraceful as they are our fellow countrymen, our brothers.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Pakistan should do everything in its power to convince the US to use its drones against the TTP or the Pakistani Taliban. The drones target Gul Bahadar, Nazir and Hekmatyar along with the Haqannis. They should target Hakimullah Mehsud directly because he poses the number one threat to Pakistan at the moment.

I completely agree.

Well said.

However the interests are mutual and shared.

some areas of FATA have been held hostage by the Uzbeks and Arabs and other anarchists.

these Talib@stards fight and kill Pakistani government supporters or its Pak organizations..

Thus Pakistan is helpless in this fight.

Drones are a blessing, otherwise the whole FATA would have gone up in smokes just like Islamist Hell hole Afghanistan.

Those who scream at drones simply want to turn Pakistan into tribal $hit.

Respectfully, I disagree.

I am of the opinion that drones are counter productive.
I'm not even talking about sovereignty and what not, but their effectiveness.

Any death of an unarmed civilian, which are widespread due to drones worsens the image of the US and of Pakistan in the minds of tribals and also creates potential recruits for talibs. I fully support crushing these taliban and foreign dogs, but this isn;t the way to do it.

Besides, it's been going on for 5 years. And last I checked North Waziristan is still the undisputed stronghold.
The real success made against militants in FATA are due to the effort of the PA ground ops and PAF support.

 

[Secur]

That's true.
Therefore, some damage to civilians is inevitable.

but you must admit buddy, the US who relies on shaky intelligence from Afghan informants, to launch these strikes on our tribals. That often kills many innocent civilians. And to make it worse, they spit in the faces of the families of those deceased by labelling them 'suspected militants' or 'other militants'.

It's my view that these drones are ineffective in specific areas where they target, and also counter productive in the long run and our effort as a whole. I could probably go on about this for hours...

But one final question buddy?
After 5 years of non-stop, savage use of drones in North Waziristan. Why are the taliban still there, why is it still their stronghold?

It is counter productive, and I;m sure you'll agree that the death of innocent tribals is disgraceful as they are our fellow countrymen, our brothers.

Unfortunately , yes . Collateral damage is a harsh reality .

You would be surprised to know that the US just doesn't rely on Afghan intelligence but even that from Pakistan Army itself and of course from the tribals themselves in those areas in exchange for money . I assume that you read the news about the amount that is to be paid to the person whose information got Taliban deputy commander dead . The term ' suspected militants ' is one , I am having difficulty to understand . Just , what is it ?

Agree with me or not , drones have helped the army massively in places where we currently cant afford to engage the militants and hence the silence . Top Taliban commanders are frequently killed in those strikes but with unfortunate civilian causalities , something unavoidable . The only problem we are difficulty accepting is that we aren't ' pushing the button ' and nothing else More recruits you mean , I take it ? .

Defeating an ideology is very difficult , my dear countryman . This is what it is , the religious psychopaths possess one and it is not easy to get the radicalized society back to normal focusing on economic progression .

I agree , but there is another angle too . We cant afford the Taliban in North Waziristan , I am sure you will agree to that too .

 

[FaujHistorian]

Respectfully, I disagree.

I am of the opinion that drones are counter productive.
I'm not even talking about sovereignty and what not, but their effectiveness.

Any death of an unarmed civilian, which are widespread due to drones worsens the image of the US and of Pakistan in the minds of tribals and also creates potential recruits for talibs. I fully support crushing these taliban and foreign dogs, but this isn;t the way to do it.

Besides, it's been going on for 5 years. And last I checked North Waziristan is still the undisputed stronghold.
The real success made against militants in FATA are due to the effort of the PA ground ops and PAF support.

There are many many solutions to the Talib@stard problem. I agree.

Each of these methods have a degree of effectiveness, costs, or benefits. I agree.

Use of drones and F-16s combined with Pak army's ground ops is what we have done so far.

It too has its degree of effectiveness, costs, or benefits.


If you do not agree with the use of drones and F-16s combined with Pak army's ground ops.


Then please suggest something different.


Thank you

 

[Jungibaaz]

If you do not agree with the use of drones and F-16s combined with Pak army's ground ops.

Then please suggest something different.

Thank you

I've always been against the use of air power. But granted it can be used EFFECTIVELY given the right conditions.
Currently, the drones are not under our jurisdiction, in fact up till very recently, those who operate these drones have been given a free hand to do as they please. As of yet, the CIA and the Obama administration doesn't officially recognize even a single civilian death due to these drones. As such, the civilian casualties have been far too high, and for every talibastard we've killed we've probably created a few more to take his or her place.

Drones in Afghanistan have taken their toll, but there, the US owes an explanation to the government and civilians and often has to apologize for civilian deaths. If that is the case there, can you imagine the extent of what goes in our tribal areas? where the US fails to recognize even a single civilian death? In fact, official press release, I'd say 7-8 out of 10 out of all the ones I've seen, most reports say that the deceased are 'suspected militants' meaning that they don't know exactly who they've just killed, the Obama administration's definition of an enemy combatant is a male of military age, I've also seen the label of 'other militants' being used, upon reading more about drones, I've found that that label is to do with any armed person, be it taliban or armed civilian.

In addition, just the fact that these drones are being used by the US and not us directly, does not serve well for us or our allies.
The average tribal would not accept the use of drones in their homeland by those who are considered 'the invaders'. In fact, I recall interviews of locals from South Waziristan, that said that they'd be all right with drones IF they were under Pakistan army control. They said that they'd accept the use of drones if their own army, who are responsible for the ordinary civilians in the area would use them.

My suggestion? Limit use of air power, arty.
5 years these drones have been used in North Waziristan, far from driving out talibs, it is still today their undisputed stronghold.
And also, where we do use drones or air strikes, let it be PA and PAF who conduct them, they will easily limit civilian casualties.
Or at the very least have the CIA and the US own up to the civilian toll.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Unfortunately , yes . Collateral damage is a harsh reality .

You would be surprised to know that the US just doesn't rely on Afghan intelligence but even that from Pakistan Army itself and of course from the tribals themselves in those areas in exchange for money . I assume that you read the news about the amount that is to be paid to the person whose information got Taliban deputy commander dead . The term ' suspected militants ' is one , I am having difficulty to understand . Just , what is it ?

Agree with me or not , drones have helped the army massively in places where we currently cant afford to engage the militants and hence the silence . Top Taliban commanders are frequently killed in those strikes but with unfortunate civilian causalities , something unavoidable . The only problem we are difficulty accepting is that we aren't ' pushing the button ' and nothing else More recruits you mean , I take it ? .

Defeating an ideology is very difficult , my dear countryman . This is what it is , the religious psychopaths possess one and it is not easy to get the radicalized society back to normal focusing on economic progression .

I agree , but there is another angle too . We cant afford the Taliban in North Waziristan , I am sure you will agree to that too .

I agree with what your saying, but this is as you said a war of ideology.
And the fact that a foreign force who is considered the invader, not just by Taliban, but also by ordinary civilians on both sides of the Durand line is using drones and that too indiscriminately, is not good for our cause.

The term suspected militant is given to those who have been killed but the US/CIA cannot get or doesn't want a confirmed ID on. The CIA and the Obama administration define an enemy combatant as 'any male of military age'. You or me quite easily. And These are our fellow countrymen

Drones and their reckless use fester support for these extremist elements in our tribal areas.
Other then that, I agree with your post, they have helped in some areas, taking out key militant leaders.

 

[FaujHistorian]

I've always been against the use of air power. But granted it can be used EFFECTIVELY given the right conditions......

Thank you for your nuanced answer.

I'v
Currently, the drones are not under our jurisdiction, in fact up till very recently, those who operate these drones have been given a free hand to do as they please........

Every drone strike is carried out with close contact with Pak army.

Ever heard of any Pak army or government official, a school teacher, getting killed in drone strike?
Perhaps I don't know.

And I'd love to know.

I
... As such, the civilian casualties have been far too high, .....

Based on what?

Unofficial surveys?

I have not heard or seen a complete list of name and address of civilians killed in a strike.

Not from Talib@stards (even when they would love to show this).

Not from Pak army (perhaps they want to hide the fact)

Not from Pak government (they can protest so I am sure they have names and addresses)


Not from Imran Khan (he can print one and put on the website)

Surely Imran can get the list. His full name happens to be Taliban Khan (j/k).



So you see, the numbers and fitgures so far are from the leftist and Talibnaist webistes, but without much to support it.



While we cry about drone deaths,

where is our anger for the 50,000 Pakistanis civilians killed.

We do get their names from the newspapers. So we have a way to authenticate the numbers.


Isn't it time to have some sense of love for those who get killed and bombed and raped by the Talib@stards?


Or you think Talb\@stards have immunity in our analysis, just because they have promised to bring to us pagans the darkness of Islamism.


Please think about it.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

The average tribal would not accept the use of drones in their homeland by those who are considered 'the invaders'. In fact, I recall interviews of locals from South Waziristan, thatsaid that they'd be all right with drones IF they were under Pakistan army control. They said that they'd accept the use of drones if their ownarmy, who are responsible for the ordinary civilians in the area would use them

Why you are lying @Jungibaaz?. You claim to interview few wazirs while my native village is surrounded by waziri settlements....tribals under the banner of taliban have not raised the arms against pak army because of drones.....presence of pak army and use of force against them in military operations has triggered the violence in tribal areas....Pak army is percieved as invader of tribal areas while America percieved as invaders of Afghanistan ....
Some times tribals agree to form lashkars against taliban and join pak army efforts...not out of love for pak army but because of common enemy.....most of the tribals are wary of taliban but they dislike Pak army more than local taliban......PAF bombardments, indefinate curfews, arrests and disappearances, demolition of houses and properties, humiliating search operations, large scale displacements....have destroyed the lives of once proud tribals, now they are on verge of becoming beggers like afghan refugees.

 

[FaujHistorian]

........presence of pak army and use of force against them in military operations has triggered the violence in tribal areas......

Chalo Ji,

Aaa gay Afghanistanis, to do propaganda.

Aaap hi ka intizar tha, Islamists ko.


Pak army was the most reluctant instiution to go into tribal areas. They know the history.


But Talib@stards Sufi and his Be-ghairat TNSM won't let the tribals live their lives.

Be-ghairat Sufi brought the death and destruction to PATA first.

Pak army never ever wanted to go in.



But for the last 20 years, Arabs, Uzbeks and other criminals (Pashtuns + Punjabis) aka Islamists have killed Tribal elders with impunity, forceably taken their women (in the fake marriages), and killed their girls and raped their boys.

Malala Yousafzai a Pashtun girl is shot at by Pashtun-Islamists, and no tribal can lift even their finger against the criminals.


And yes we know the whole concept of Pakhtunwali, that is dead in the face of 1000 times more cruel Talib@stards. Majority Pashtuns in tribal areas are not powerless in the face of Islamist (Arab+Uzbek+Pashun+Punjabi) onslaught. totally powerless. Unless Pak army supports them directly or indirectly.


And here is an Afghanistani telling lies about Pak army.


This is the hight of Begharty, when people pretend to be citizens of a country, and then try to cut the roots of the same country. Hight of begharty.



sorry to say.

 

[batmannow]

Chalo Ji,

Aaa gay Afghanistanis, to do propaganda.

Aaap hi ka intizar tha, Islamists ko.


Pak army was the most reluctant instiution to go into tribal areas. They know the history.


But Talib@stards Sufi and his Be-ghairat TNSM won't let the tribals live their lives.

Be-ghairat Sufi brought the death and destruction to PATA first.

Pak army never ever wanted to go in.



But for the last 20 years, Arabs, Uzbeks and other criminals (Pashtuns + Punjabis) aka Islamists have killed Tribal elders with impunity, forceably taken their women (in the fake marriages), and killed their girls and raped their boys.

Malala Yousafzai a Pashtun girl is shot at by Pashtun-Islamists, and no tribal can lift even their finger against the criminals.


And yes we know the whole concept of Pakhtunwali, that is dead in the face of 1000 times more cruel Talib@stards. Majority Pashtuns in tribal areas are not powerless in the face of Islamist (Arab+Uzbek+Pashun+Punjabi) onslaught. totally powerless. Unless Pak army supports them directly or indirectly.


And here is an Afghanistani telling lies about Pak army.


This is the hight of Begharty, when people pretend to be citizens of a country, and then try to cut the roots of the same country. Hight of begharty.



sorry to say.

geo fauji shb, doo zara ghooma key !

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Chalo Ji,

Aaa gay Afghanistanis, to do propaganda.

Aaap hi ka intizar tha, Islamists ko.


Pak army was the most reluctant instiution to go into tribal areas. They know the history.


But Talib@stards Sufi and his Be-ghairat TNSM won't let the tribals live their lives.

Be-ghairat Sufi brought the death and destruction to PATA first.

Pak army never ever wanted to go in.



But for the last 20 years, Arabs, Uzbeks and other criminals (Pashtuns Punjabis) aka Islamists have killed Tribal elders with impunity, forceably taken their women (in the fake marriages), and killed their girls and raped their boys.

Malala Yousafzai a Pashtun girl is shot at by Pashtun-Islamists, and no tribal can lift even their finger against the criminals.


And yes we know the whole concept of Pakhtunwali, that is dead in the face of 1000 times more cruel Talib@stards. Majority Pashtuns in tribal areas are not powerless in the face of Islamist (Arab Uzbek Pashun Punjabi) onslaught. totally powerless. Unless Pak army supports them directly or indirectly.


And here is an Afghanistani telling lies about Pak army.


This is the hight of Begharty, when people pretend to be citizens of a country, and then try to cut the roots of the same country. Hight of begharty.



sorry to say.

Oh bhai jan, all you are doing is ranting and name calling...i have no appetite to reply such posts....it seems you are living in a foriegn country or very distant place like karachi as you have no idea about ground realities of tribal areas and even KPK.