Sisi seeks to conclude military deal with France swiftly

[Sinai Horus]

Why is there a hurry by Egyptian military junta ? Are there planning to use Rafale to attack Muslim Brotherhood ?

Mig-21s and Mirage Vs will be out of service in a year or two + Mirage 2000s, some of the F-16s will also be out of service in 4-6 years. Only F-16s would remain + Israel getting the F-35s. So the deals are a must. the EAF needs the aircraft fast as the pilots yet have to be trained on the new aircraft. I believe the Rafales wouldn't replace the Russian aircraft bid, the EAF likely to buy the Su-35s and Mig-29s also. Plans that Egypt would buy the Emirati Mirage 2000-9s to replace the Mirage 2000s in service. Egypt considers the co-production of JF-17 also.

 

[Steve781]

Why doesn't the US just release the F16s? This sulk is getting ridiculous now.

 

[SipahSalar]

Didn't Russia do the same to Iran with the S300s. ?

No, Iran had not paid.

Mig-21s and Mirage Vs will be out of service in a year or two + Mirage 2000s, some of the F-16s will also be out of service in 4-6 years. Only F-16s would remain + Israel getting the F-35s. So the deals are a must. the EAF needs the aircraft fast as the pilots yet have to be trained on the new aircraft. I believe the Rafales wouldn't replace the Russian aircraft bid, the EAF likely to buy the Su-35s and Mig-29s also.

If your plan is deterrence against Israel, then buying anything from a western nation is stupidity. Russia or China will be better options.

 

[Steve781]

No, Iran had not paid.

If your plan is deterrence against Israel, then buying anything from a western nation is stupidity. Russia or China will be better options.

The current Egyptian government is the most pro Israel Arab government in history.

 

[Paksanity]

Assuming the Rafale deal is in negotiations, what is the package we are talking about? I think France has been steadily losing its share in defense exports market. Three decades back French weapons were everywhere in the world.

@Gabriel92 You have something to share on this?

 

[The Impulse]

Both the dreamer and the gullible got the finger, and they know it...Egypt has neither the money nor the capability to man the Fremm or the Rafale unless they buy them fully staffed until domestic crew is trained. Now, after the Sauds got them to do everything the ask from Egypt, from the putsch against Morsi, putting the MB's on the terrorist list to releasing Mubarek , they left them with an empty wallet...Sadat lived the same affront from Sauds..It is just that the Egyptians can't get it and have never learned from their past (recent)history.

Butthurt much? because Algerian military can't get advanced weapons from the west, and are forced to buy only technologically lagging Russian Russia/Chinese equipment ? Algerian military craves western weapons, but the west will never sell you any advanced stuff

Egypt operates Mirage 2000 since mid 80's, so keep the butt hurting

 

[Wasteland]

because Algerian military can't get advanced weapons from the west

1- France offered Rafale to Algeria before, but Algerian military is rejecting it because of it's high price and because it's French.

2- Algeria bought MEKO 200 from Germany.

3- Algeria bought a helicopter carrier from Italy

The only country that refuses to sell high-tech weapons to Algeria is US.

 

[Frogman]

Rafale: negotiations with Egypt at a very advanced stage

Paris and Cairo are about to complete a financing plan for 24 Rafale and a frigate, particularly for the part guaranteed by the [French] State through the Coface. The payment of the deposit will be the decisive stage.
[...]
If the industrial part poses no problems, the financing plan, however, quickly emerged as a blocking point given the very difficult economic and fiscal situation of Egypt. The financial demands of the Egyptians have also complicated the matter because they wanted France (hence the taxpayer) to guarantee between 80 and 90% of the amount of the deal. [French] Ministry of finance "agreed to help funding a part, but only a part. You must complete the financing. "

The situation was so complicated that some thought that Cairo would have no choice but to revise downward its demands or the size of the order. This was not the case on the perimeter. Arrived earlier this week in Paris, the Egyptian delegation maintained its desire for a big twenty Rafale and a frigate. But they agreed to put a little more out of pocket, so that the Coface guarantee would now cover only 50% of the deal, and the french State would or would be about to accept. "At this level, it is unusual. The state is taking a risk, "admits a specialist in arms exports. But for Paris, exporting the Rafale is imperative: the military planning law provides that 40 of the 66 Rafale produced between 2016 to 2019 must be exported, including 7 in 2016!

But , despite well advanced, negotiations with Egypt are not over. Once the financing plan completed (as well as issues relating to the use of the Rafale), which is possible this week, a banking pool must be created. it will likely include BNP Paribas, Societe Generale and Credit Agricole. Banks are ready, one says , even if the devil is in the contractual details.
Contracts must then be signed and, above all, one decisive step has to be crossed: the payment of the deposit. About 500 millions euros. A higher amount than usual, and for good reason. The Egyptians are in a hurry. The frigate, almost completed , will be taken on the French Navy quota. Similarly, in order to fly above Suez this summer, Rafales will be taken from the Dassault production line. It is therefore upon payment of the deposit that will it be possible to verify that Cairo has found the means of its ambitions. Perhaps with the support of some friendly countries, such as Saudi Arabia?

Once this has been done, and only after that , Egypt will be then the first [foreign] customer of the Rafale, after being the first [foreign] customer of the Mirage 2000. It was in 1981

Rafale : négociations très avancées avec l’Egypte, Aéronautique - Défense

 

[Ceylal]

Butthurt much? because Algerian military can't get advanced weapons from the west, and are forced to buy only technologically lagging Russian Russia/Chinese equipment ? Algerian military craves western weapons, but the west will never sell you any advanced stuff

Algeria is not prostituting herself to every dick and harry to get her armements. Your weapons maybe Western but of a low quality with a condition only a country of service will accept...The US gives Egypt $1.5 B ant 10 times that much to Israel in money, military equipment, technology transfer that is not given to you..Not only the equipment sold to you at a price where your territorial integrity is at stake( American military base ) but egypt has also to lower her pants to Israel , by being forced to paint with a reflective orange the wing tips and the rudder of your war planes.They have no BVR capability, Your Mirage don't fly anymore ..So in one word, you have a lot of western quincaillerie that won't do any good to you in any conflict. Now since Egypt got her tits in the ringer between beit el moukdiss in Sinai, ISIS khalifat in Derna, MB's giving ultimatum to foreigners to leave and to tourist inbound to cancel their trip...We will all going towitness the mighty Egyptian army with her western armement!
The Sauds screwed Sadat in the 70's by not keeping their word, Sissi will double screwed by the same, after they pushed him to stage a coup to a legally elected government , killing thousands of civilian, banning the MB's from politics, and he wanted to please them so much that he even created a terrorism list where the MB's and even Hamas military wing are labelled. How low can Egypt the "Oum Eddounia" will go, to get a the end a big Saudi middle finger?

Holland is so gullible ,due to France actual pocket book, that he believed Sissi the window shopper that the latter can sway the sauds to finance Egypt grocery list...You just have to look to Lebanon, the Sauds financed them too..How much did they get? zilch, rien, walou....

Egypt operates Mirage 2000 since mid 80's, so keep the butt hurting

Egypt don't fly them...
If the western equipment relegated to Egypt are so good why going begging the Russians for their MIG 35 ?

Rafale: negotiations with Egypt at a very advanced stage

If you get them and the deal goes thru, I will go to a spa for a Brazilian bikini wax, And I will post the picture in PDF!

 

[Frogman]

TheUS gives Egypt $1.5 B ant 10 times that much to Israel in money, military equipment, technology transfer that is not given to you.

$1.3B in military aid the rest is civvie aid. Israel receives $3B in aid from the US so twice not ten times the aid. Is the domestic assembly of the M1 Abrams and production of 85% of its components not technology transfer? The M88 Hercules? Transport vehicles? Ammunition?

You're talking out of your arse again.

Not only the equipment sold to you at a price where your territorial integrity is at stake( American military base ) but egypt has also to lower her pants to Israel , by being forced to paint with a reflective orange the wing tips and the rudder of your war planes

There are no US military bases in Egypt, again making stuff up. In a region in which many air forces use the same aircraft, have similar roundels, and markings the orange paint is incredibly useful in avoiding fratricide, particularly in dog fights were the gun may be used. The markings themselves don't have any qualities that may provide an enemy air force with an advantage, it is just normal aircraft paint.

They have no BVR capability, Your Mirage don't fly anymore ..So in one word, you have a lot of western quincaillerie that won't do any good to you in any conflict.

Beyond visual range is 37km or 20nm, the AIM-7M has a range of 50+ km and the AIM-7P furthers that. The disadvantage comes in that the AIM-7 only has a semi active radar. Again, wrong.

The Mirage 2000 and the Mirage III/IV Horus still fly, the latter however is due for retirement at the end of this year.

You can see them both in action in Ex "Badr 2014" last November

A $1B upgrade package was offered by Das last year, and Egypt may add the UAE M2K-9, so, they are still flown.

Egypt don't fly them...
If the western equipment relegated to Egypt are so good why going begging the Russians for their MIG 35 ?

We do and you're still an idiot. The EAF post 73 wanted a variation in armament, French, Chinese, US and Russian (already in service) aircraft were procured, the life cycle of those aircraft has come to an end or are near their end it appears the EAF still has the same policy, simply replacing 10+ squadrons with F-16 B52+ which has a unit cost of around 80 million dollars or above would be uneconomical compared to the price of the Mig-35 which is around half that price, the political environment may also play a role. There's no begging, did Egypt beg Russia for Mi-17s, and a multitude of surface to air platforms in 2005 or later? no.

If you get them and the deal goes thru, I will go to a spa for a Brazilian bikini wax, And I will post the picture in PDF!

I won't hold you to your word.

 

[Ceylal]

$1.3B in military aid the rest is civvie aid. Israel receives $3B in aid from the US so twice not ten times the aid. Is the domestic assembly of the M1 Abrams and production of 85% of its components not technology transfer? The M88 Hercules? Transport vehicles? Ammunition?

You're talking out of your arse again.

Just as a simple reminder for a simpleton like you...Israel get $3B in military aid, The US paid for their Iron dome, paid for their every military program that Israel is engaged in as the arrow ballistic system, not including the the protective wall that surround Israel and the new settlement that she is building in the occupied territory...If you get your finger out of your @ss and do some counting you will surely see that Egypt got the bad end of the deal...and she still has her lips puckered for the next B.J.

The US has a military base in Egypt otherwise they won't give her yearly payment and military equipment, for her servility .

The paint is a requirement of the peace treaty with Israel.
Arab MiG-19 and MiG-21 Units in Combat - David Nicolle, Tom Cooper - Google Books

read paragraph 10 when the wing color started..
read paragraph 8, the free man 's country contribution to your air force.

 

[Frogman]

Just as a simple reminder for a simpleton like you...Israel get $3B in military aid, The US paid for their Iron dome, paid for their every military program that Israel is engaged in as the arrow ballistic system, not including the the protective wall that surround Israel and the new settlement that she is building in the occupied territory...If you get your finger out of your @ss and do some counting you will surely see that Egypt got the bad end of the deal...and she still has her lips puckered for the next B.J.

Which is natural, Israel is the US' closest ally, there was no Egyptian intent to replace or even match the Israeli relationship with the US. However, in pure factual terms as per the peace treaty Egypt receives 1.3 and Is 3.0, there was never any intention to become 'equal'.

The US has a military base in Egypt otherwise they won't give her yearly payment and military equipment, for her servility .

Unfortunately for you it doesn't US troops are present within the multinational MFO and as advisers. In total there are around 200 US personnel in Egypt, the majority of which are with the MFO:- "There are bases for the Multinational Force and Observers, which is compromised of 11 nations. The mission is to monitor the peace between Israel and Egypt. The US Army does regular 6-month rotations in this area. The US operates in the southern sector, the Columbian Infantry opperates in the centeral sector and the Fijian Infantry operates in the Northern sector. The other nations participate as part of the Force Commander's staff and MFO special agencies.

For the US, there are 2 camps. North Camp is located at El Gorah, Egypt, in the northeastern Sinai near the Egyptian/Israeli border. South Camp, is located near Sharm-El-Sheikh, at the southern most point of the Sinai on the Red Sea."

There are around 20 USAF personnel and one USN, there are only 15 dependents (spouse, kids, etc. etc.) suggesting (or proving) that there is not US base in Egypt, and there certainly aren't any combat troops.

In contrast Bahrain, which has a US base has over 3000 personnel, incidentally, Algeria has around three.

The paint is a requirement of the peace treaty with Israel.

Which particular chapter and verse? If it is why doesn't the Mirage 2000 have the orange flashes?

US mil aid however is part of the treaty.

read paragraph 10 when the wing color started..
read paragraph 8, the free man 's country contribution to your air force.

No one denied Algeria's contributions, however, delusions of great battles and military honours are just that. The Algerian contingent in 1973 did not see battle (where's your casualty numbers if you did?), however it would have as it was part of the larger plan (alqhita alshamila) if the war was reignited after the ceasefire.

 

[Ceylal]

In contrast Bahrain, which has a US base has over 3000 personnel, incidentally, Algeria has around three.

3 what? are you county military attache? There is no american base or soldier based in Algeria...period.

No one denied Algeria's contributions, however, delusions of great battles and military honours are just that. The Algerian contingent in 1973 did not see battle (where's your casualty numbers if you did?), however it would have as it was part of the larger plan (alqhita alshamila) if the war was reignited after the ceasefire.

Really? Algerian troops didn't see battle? and tell us who stopped Arial Sharon in the deversoir? He could have been pushed back to the Sinai if Sadat didn't throw the towel ! You need to do some digging if you are seeking the truth on who did what and not to limit it to one side fairy tell.
And for casualties they were very negligible, comparing to the 3000 or so we suffered in six day war..and one MIG 17 badly hit, that managed to return and land ..

 

[Frogman]

3 what? are you county military attache? There is no american base or soldier based in Algeria...period.

Yes, attache or advisers.

Really? Algerian troops didn't see battle? and tell us who stopped Arial Sharon in the deversoir? He could have been pushed back to the Sinai if Sadat didn't throw the towel ! You need to do some digging if you are seeking the truth on who did what and not to limit it to one side fairy tell.
And for casualties they were very negligible, comparing to the 3000 or so we suffered in six day war..and one MIG 17 badly hit, that managed to return and land ..

المجموعة 73 مؤرخين - كل ما تريد أن تعرفه عن - الثغرة
المجموعة 73 مؤرخين - خطط تصفيه الثغره - الخطه شامل

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Egypt : imminent signing

[...]Dassault could sign very soon, by the end of next week, perhaps even by the end of this week[...]24 Rafale and 1 FREMM for 5,3 billions euros , weapons included
[...]If everything goes as planned, 2 or 3 Rafale could be taken quickly on Dassault production chain at Merignac in order to fly in August at the opening ceremony of the expansion of the Suez Canal, as desired by the Egyptians. The frigate, which will be deducted from the quota of the Navy, will also parade. The first production deliveries will intervene as of 2018.
In term of weaponry , the Egyptian Rafale will be equipped with Mica air-air missiles ,AASM air-ground missiles ,and especially, Scalp cruise missiles.

Rafale en Egypte : signature des contrats imminente, Aéronautique - Défense

 

[Ceylal]

Yes, attache or advisers.

I am talking about boots on the ground, and you are talking about military attaches?

Egypt : imminent signing

[...]Dassault could sign very soon, by the end of next week, perhaps even by the end of this week[...]24 Rafale and 1 FREMM for 5,3 billions euros , weapons included
[...]If everything goes as planned, 2 or 3 Rafale could be taken quickly on Dassault production chain at Merignac in order to fly in August at the opening ceremony of the expansion of the Suez Canal, as desired by the Egyptians. The frigate, which will be deducted from the quota of the Navy, will also parade. The first production deliveries will intervene as of 2018.
In term of weaponry , the Egyptian Rafale will be equipped with Mica air-air missiles ,AASM air-ground missiles ,and especially, Scalp cruise missiles.

Rafale en Egypte : signature des contrats imminente, Aéronautique - Défense

Here what a wiser man that knows very well the military industry and establishment in France...I am going to leave it in French...and you can translate it for other if you want...
"regardingthe advanced Franco-Egyptian.negociations..Guisnel, an aficianado in Europeen defence wrote in his blog:
"Les milieux concernés, à la défense et dans l'industrie, se montrent optimistes, mais se souviennent de trop d'annonces tonitruantes qui n'ont été suivies d'aucun contrat. Tout le monde commence à trépigner, mais un proche du dossier se refuse à succomber à l'enthousiasme "tant que ces contrats ne seront pas conclus, que l'encre ne sera pas sèche et les premiers acomptes versés." Conclusion : on se calme !"