Sino-Japanese War still stings China 120 years later

[INDIC]

You know? hehe!

Cairo Declaration Archives : Writings and Rants

Formosa was returned to China but if Senkaku was your territory, why didn't ROC take it.

 

[Grand Historian]

Peace has always been Japan's objective, the good and prosperity of ALL Asia is in our visage.

Imjin War,Woukou invasions,Sino-Japanese War etc. tell me are these benign acts?

 

[Aepsilons]

To Chinese Colleagues @TaiShang , @terranMarine , @Grand Historian et al,

Konnichiwa.

I pray this message finds you all in good health and sound mind.

I have read all your posits in this thread, and have respectfully thought about your view(s), and empathize with the concerns Chinese people have in regards to historical qualms. It is true that both our nations have had a very dynamic history , not only limited to war, but through shear competition for regional influence. The Mongol Invasions to Japan, the Imjin Wars, the 1st and 2nd Sino Japanese Wars are all issues both our nations have to come to grips with. And considering the amount of human resources spent in the prosecution of these historical clashes, one can empathize with the concerns of Chinese even Korean people(s).

To quote Zena Wynn, “Rehashing the past wouldn't change anything. Time to move forward.”

Now permit me to infer some of my points. First, I believe that it is interesting and trivial knowledge for us to understand history. But to use historical interaction as a measure of a nation's character and future dynamic is groundless and baseless. Some of you refer to the Imjin Wars, which occured in the 16th century, almost half a millenia ago. Do the French continue to hate and consider the British their eternal enemies? I mean, during the 15th and 16th centuries they were the greatest enemies, vying for power in continental Europe. Do the Italian princely states still war with each other? I mean, during the 16th century the Republic of Venice was at wars with the Papal States. Do you think these Italian principalities, to this day, hold such animosity ? During the 16th century the Majapahit Empire of present day Indonesia made frequent wars with smaller island kingdoms, do you think that to this day they are at war with each other? No, they have moved on from such basilar instincts of regionalism and have adopted their commonality as Indonesians. This is why I believe it is unpractical, unreasonable and downright unnecessarily immature for some Chinese people to hold a grudge on Japan due to the Imjin Wars. It's history. Its the past. It does not define the future. And to requote Zena Wynn, "Rehashing the past wouldn't change anything. Time to move forward."

The political dynamism that is apparent in East Asia is in part due to historical qualms with each other. I believe that many of the hostilities that China posits towards Japan is based on and is fueled by an Anti-Japanese sentiment , whose etiology is centered on the Sino Japanese Wars. These of course are repetitively stated by media towards the population. There is an almost perpetual hatred. And to objectively analyze it-- it is a perfect tool of the Chinese Leadership because it allows the people to focus on one entity -- Japan -- instead of failures in domestic policies and internal affairs within China. It is in lieu with George Orwell's 1984 book, in which the Ministry of Truth repetitively reminds the populace, "War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength." If there is to be a rectitude of our relations, it has to address these intrapsychic wants, these past traumas.

I shall end this with a famous Haiku written by a samurai during the Bakufu,

祝福するためには、非難ではない
判断の鎖から私たちを解放します。
許しはすべて癒す。
translated:
To bless, not condemn
frees us from chains of judgement.
Forgiveness heals all.




Domo Arigadou gozaimashita,
Sincerely Yours,
@Nihonjin1051

 

[Europa]

Japan was standing up against Western encroachments in Asia,

interesting, can the OP elaborate this point further?

 

[Grand Historian]

Why would Chinese hate Japan over the Imjin War,it wasn't fought on Chinese land.

I brought it up because you attempt to distort history that Japan wasn't an aggressive country.

Don't try to shift blame on the Chinese,the Sino-Japanese War was clearly Japan's fault and they committed terrible crimes that modern day Japanese tend to gloss over.

Again if someone slaughtered your entire family would you just forget it and say let bygones be bygones?

The truth is that Japan is unwilling to sincerely apologize and tend to blame European countries for their own greed. ie "Japan was standing up against Western encroachments in Asia"

Why do Japanese bring up the Atomic bombings if they think bygones are bygones?

 

[Aepsilons]

Why would Chinese hate Japan over the Imjin War,it wasn't fought on Chinese land.

I brought it up because you attempt to distort history that Japan wasn't an aggressive country.

Don't try to shift blame on the Chinese,the Sino-Japanese War was clearly Japan's fault and they committed terrible crimes that modern day Japanese tend to gloss over.

Again if someone slaughtered your entire family would you just forget it and say let bygones be bygones?

The truth is that Japan is unwilling to sincerely apologize and tend to blame European countries for their own greed. ie "Japan was standing up against Western encroachments in Asia"

Why do Japanese bring up the Atomic bombings if they think bygones are bygones?

There is a famous Japanese proverb that goes the following:

Yama no ikari wa shimasu ka? Kaze wa koishi ga rakka suru osore ga areba, sore wa naite imasu ka?

[translation]

Does the mountain wrath? Does it cry if the wind cause a pebble to fall?

Ponder on the significance of this.

 

[terranMarine]

interesting, can the OP elaborate this point further?

Simply put: salvation of Asians from Western colonizers through conquering Asia, mass murdering Asians, putting Western colonizers in labor camp all in the name of freeing Asia from Westerners.

 

[Grand Historian]

There is a famous Japanese proverb that goes the following:

Yama no ikari wa shimasu ka? Kaze wa koishi ga rakka suru osore ga areba, sore wa naite imasu ka?

[translation]

Does the mountain wrath? Does it cry if the wind cause a pebble to fall?

Ponder on the significance of this.

Your refusal to acknowledge the suffering that the Chinese had to go under Japanese aggression is appalling.

This is kind of attitude that keeps the Chinese hatred of Japanese alive.

 

[Aepsilons]

Perhaps you have misread my post , and failed to comprehend the magnanimity of the poem I shared with you?

As for my feelings in regards to Chinese victims of past wars with Japan, I've had, in many occasions, shown and given my sincere apology. Hatred is a malicious entity, it blackens even the purest of heart, and it ruins the spirit of an individual. It is, as any intrapsychic tension, ruinous to man.



Respectfully,

 

[Huaren]

At first your post was very elucidating and I thought that you would bring about an open minded discussion. Then, towards the end, your unwarranted inclination of Japanese imperialism makes itself apparent. Why is it that all Chinese fear our Imperialism? No need to fear, no need to be so concerned. We are a liberal democracy, centered on the rule of law. Peace has always been Japan's objective, the good and prosperity of ALL Asia is in our visage.

Thanks.

Sorry to disappoint you but there is no way I could ever trust japanese, as long as the disputes and the cursed shrine remain standing. And there is little to no fear compared with my hatred against Japan or how much I despise its people, imperialism or not. As long as China doesnt close eyes, Japan would never be able to do anything, but at the first sign of weakness I would expect Japan to be there taking up "oppertunity" to try their luck once again. My hatred is being cultivated by tales in my family even without the help of our government or firsthand experiences;

Before settling in Beijing, my family moved from central China to Northeastern region when Qing dynasty was crumbling, we have lived through all kind of hardship until finally managed to hold up our home, despite all the chaos around us, but then the japanese came, enslaving or killing all people wherever they go, my family were forced to flee south, and those got separated were never found again, the last words of my grandfather were to tell us go back and find his loved one and friends, we have failed to find anything other than tales worse than horrible at the hand of japanese, my grandfather however could never let go even at his dying breath.

My issue with Japan is personal, but I would expect countless chinese have experienced the same thing in their families, no matter what our government told us to believe. As long as japanese people tolerate the feeble deflections made by rightwing politicians, who could even manage to get voted into the highest position, or toleranting continued honoring of the filthy war criminals on japanese ground, I could never see any japanese apology being sincere. Also in this case being liberal democracy, centered on the rule of law would also make japanese people partly guilty as well, unlike under dictatorship where the choice would be limited the japanese people have the right to make the change to mend the past mistakes without falling back, yet today all those insults towards past victims keep surfacing up again and again, I would be surprised if anyone could believe japanese really regret their crime, or if japanese people really cared for those suffering caused by their nation, most of them obviously dont, otherwise many things in Japan would change. Ignoring sins would also makes guilty, especially if you have the choice to change direction of your nation (in this case not only the politicians, but also the common people). if the conditions are met I could forgive the past crime of Japan, but to forget would also be sinful no matter how long time have passed.

Nevertheless I am very interested in any issues concerning Japan, after all people should know best about those they love or hate the most. I would like to keep conversation with anybody as civil as possible, including japanese, thank you very much.

 

[atatwolf]

What about the crimes China commits on Uighur and Tibetians?

 

[Huaren]

What about the crimes China commits on Uighur and Tibetians?

Vast majority of Uighur and Tibetians are Chinese citzens and part of over 50 chinese minorities, those of any ethnic group (including han) who believe they are not chinese and start causing trouble within chinese territory will be hunted down by Chinese (Han, Uighur, Tibetans or anybody else as chinese citizen), in the same fashion as recently when 30,000 people (most if not all uighur chinese citizens) in Xinjiang’s Hotan prefecture hunted down uighur terrorists for causing trouble.

 

[Grand Historian]

What about the crimes China commits on Uighur and Tibetians?

What crimes?

Chinese treat Tibetans and Uighurs humanely while the Japanese massacred,raped,stole,experimented and ransacked the Chinese.

Perhaps you have misread my post , and failed to comprehend the magnanimity of the poem I shared with you?

As for my feelings in regards to Chinese victims of past wars with Japan, I've had, in many occasions, shown and given my sincere apology. Hatred is a malicious entity, it blackens even the purest of heart, and it ruins the spirit of an individual. It is, as any intrapsychic tension, ruinous to man.



Respectfully,

Your apologies don't mean anything if all you do is whitewash Japanese crimes and praise the Imperial family.

 

[atatwolf]

Vast majority of Uighur and Tibetians are Chinese citzens and part of over 50 chinese minorities, those of any ethnic group (including han) who believe they are not chinese and start causing trouble within chinese territory will be hunted down by Chinese (Han, Uighur, Tibetans or anybody else as chinese citizen), in the same fashion as recently when 30,000 people (most if not all uighur chinese citizens) in Xinjiang’s Hotan prefecture hunted down uighur terrorists for causing trouble.

But you forget it is their land and you oppress them. Killing protestors and people who want human rights. I'm not talking about terrorism done by some but about general Uighurs and Tibetians. Some might call that crimes against humanity. They should determine their own future and stop this occupation that started in the 40'ies.

 

[Aepsilons]

Sorry to disappoint you but there is no way I could ever trust japanese, as long as the disputes and the cursed shrine remain standing. And there is little to no fear compared with my hatred against Japan or how much I despise its people, imperialism or not. As long as China doesnt close eyes, Japan would never be able to do anything, but at the first sign of weakness I would expect Japan to be there taking up "oppertunity" to try their luck once again. My hatred is being cultivated by tales in my family even without the help of our government or firsthand experiences;

Before settling in Beijing, my family moved from central China to Northeastern region when Qing dynasty was crumbling, we have lived through all kind of hardship until finally managed to hold up our home, despite all the chaos around us, but then the japanese came, enslaving or killing all people wherever they go, my family were forced to flee south, and those got separated were never found again, the last words of my grandfather were to tell us go back and find his loved one and friends, we have failed to find anything other than tales worse than horrible at the hand of japanese, my grandfather however could never let go even at his dying breath.

My issue with Japan is personal, but I would expect countless chinese have experienced the same thing in their families, no matter what our government told us to believe. As long as japanese people tolerate the feeble deflections made by rightwing politicians, who could even manage to get voted into the highest position, or toleranting continued honoring of the filthy war criminals on japanese ground, I could never see any japanese apology being sincere. Also in this case being liberal democracy, centered on the rule of law would also make japanese people partly guilty as well, unlike under dictatorship where the choice would be limited the japanese people have the right to make the change to mend the past mistakes without falling back, yet today all those insults towards past victims keep surfacing up again and again, I would be surprised if anyone could believe japanese really regret their crime, or if japanese people really cared for those suffering caused by their nation, most of them obviously dont, otherwise many things in Japan would change. Ignoring sins would also makes guilty, especially if you have the choice to change direction of your nation (in this case not only the politicians, but also the common people). if the conditions are met I could forgive the past crime of Japan, but to forget would also be sinful no matter how long time have passed.

Nevertheless I am very interested in any issues concerning Japan, after all people should know best about those they love or hate the most. I would like to keep conversation with anybody as civil as possible, including japanese, thank you very much.

Hi @Huaren ,

Thank you for sharing your personal anecdote about the trials and ordeals your family , as i'm sure a great many Chinese families did, during the course of the war. Sorry to hear that your grandfather died still yearning to find relatives and friends.

My grandfather and his family, too, lived in times of peril. He had served in the Imperial Japanese Navy for most of the duration of the Pacific War, an officer in an Imperial destoryer. From his stories and personal anecdotes, he remembered many of his family and friends who served and died in the service of Japan. My grandfather told me that during the war he had both animosity and respect for the Americans. This animosity later was removed and in his last years of life he met with many American war veterans , many of whom even sent letters of condolences after my grandfather passed away.

I remember a time when I was in high school and asked him in depth about his experiences in war. It was the first time i've really seen him become emotional and cry deep tears. In the end, his greatest regret was that his 3 brothers (all of whom were younger than he, and all 3 died in the war) died and yet he lived. I still remember it like yesterday-- he took out his wallet, and opened a flap, and showed me a picture of him with his 3 younger brothers -- all in Imperial Navy uniform. It was taken before all of them set out to service. It was the last time all three were with each other. In the end, we all lament on our family, friends.

I am sorry for your family's loss. Thank you for sharing with me.


Take care.
Kind Regards,