Simorgh class drones > ashes of the beast

[LeGenD]

do you think it's hard to find your own aircraft in an area when you knew they are there and where and when you must look ?
have you asked yourself why so much aircraft in that area.

The photo [in question] is from an OSINT source, and not from US-led forces. It provide a glimpse of aerial activity around the Hajin pocket on November 18, 2018.

DISCLAIMER for the source of the snapshot: "it's not unusual to notice multiple UAVs and planes circling over Islamic-state held Hajin pocket in Syria at the same time."

KEY TERM: "it's not unusual."

Location of Hajin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hajin

Do you know that the 'activities of interest' across Syria are being mapped on a daily basis by OSINT platforms? Here: https://syria.liveuamap.com/

Earlier in this thread, you claimed that the drones are INVISIBLE to powerful satellites up there because of their low emissions, and I have established otherwise. I pointed out to you that the engine section is hotter than the rest of the frame (even in autopilot), and some of the satellites up there are sensitive enough to notice this.

Here is another snapshot:

These aircraft were CAUGHT heading towards Hajin at some point in the month of November in 2018, but were not close to their destination yet.

Surveillance EXPERTS happen to be TRAINED individuals, and understand WHEN and WHERE to look, around the world. They are HIRED and PAID for this kind of activity, and they do not need pointers from OSINT platforms to unmask activities [of interest] in any part of the world. Of-course, what kind of assets they have at their disposal, is of paramount importance.

If you had ever bothered to explore this subject in person, you would have known that some of the satellites back in the days of Cold War era were sensitive enough to notice movements of Soviet bombers (AIRCRAFT being the key word) even though the public [was led to believe] that they were capable of noticing ballistic missile launches in boost phase at most, and therefore, suited for EARLY WARNING roles at large (nothing much else).

"Starting in the mid-1970s, the Air Force’s Defense Support Program (DSP) satellites had detected unusual heat targets. The DSP had been designed to look for the heat generated by relatively hot ballistic missiles. But soon after DSP entered service, Aerospace Corporation scientists began detecting other heat targets, including surface-to-air missiles and ground explosions. The company’s scientists and engineers also began noticing unusual infrared events. These infrared returns occurred over Soviet territory at regular intervals and traveled in relatively straight lines. They were clearly not ballistic missiles. They soon determined that they were originating at Soviet bomber bases, notably those that fielded Backfire bombers. For the next several years, Aerospace Corporation scientists tried to interest the Air Force in studying this data more closely and possibly using it as a source of intelligence. Ultimately, the US Navy fielded the SLOW WALKER Reporting System, or SLWRS, which used DSP data to track the movements of Soviet bombers.

By the late 1980s, the Navy improved its SLOW WALKER capability to the point where the information was disseminated nearly instantaneously. Now the DSP satellite, with technology older than that developed for Teal Ruby, was performing an operational mission while the expensive experimental satellite still sat on the ground." - The Space Review

Do you think that USSR was announcing such activities in public? Hi there, come and take a look?

US was UNMASKING Soviet military-oriented activities via its DSP platform [behind-the-scenes].

These realities are coming to light at present (DECLASSIFIED INFORMATION). Their is much difference in what the public is led to believe about the capabilities of the spaceborne surveillance assets and what is the reality behind-the-scenes.

Keep this in mind; DATA PROCESSING architecture for the satellites - in the Cold War era - was a joke in comparison to what exist today, and the satellites were also not as capable in comparison to what is fielded up there in current times. The modern-era SBIRS platform is a 'major leap' from the Cold War era DSP platform in EVERY ASPECT for "similar ends." MAJOR LEAP is the KEY TERM.

A spy satellite have an extremely wide field of view, and it can capture lot of activity over multiple countries in a single scan. Of-course, different types of satellites capture different types of activities in the same geography. Nevertheless, state-of-the-art spy satellites have a multi-sensor architecture (scanner + starer). The scanner system illuminate a wide range of activities (signatures) over multiple countries in one go, and the starer system can be made to zoom in towards a particular location [or even a whole country] to facilitate battlefield operations on the ground. If you go through my earlier posts, you will notice an image which highlight this architecture [SBIRS platform].

Sensitivity of the SBIRS platform, will become known in DECADES from now (and mostly in writing); what would be up there by then is anybody's guess. And SBIRS platform is just a component of the American spaceborne surveillance activities.

I also pointed out earlier that spaceborne surveillance activities can be [complemented] with airborne surveillance techniques to construct incredibly rich picture of developments in a battlespace in any part of the world. US-led forces [and Israel] are closely monitoring developments in Syria, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan respectively. This is an open secret.

While they openly violate sovereignty of Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan, [we] have no idea how many times they have violated sovereignty of Iran and Pakistan as well [using clandestine methods]. They went a bit far on the night of May 2, 2011 in Pakistan [assassinating OBL without taking Pakistan into confidence in advance]. And they were not much bothered by the loss of an RQ-170 variant over Iran in the same year [they were like; nevermind].

If you think that Iranian drones somehow escaped attention of the PRYING EYES on the night of October 1 in 2018, then you are sadly mistaken [this is your personal assumption, and not reality]. Surveillance operations are performed in absolute secrecy, and operators will not provide details to the public unless they have the permission to do so. A spokesman might even be tasked to MISLEAD the masses.

My take is that Iranians [on average] do not understand the mechanisms of surveillance operations, how massive American surveillance apparatus have become over the course of years, and what type of assets are involved in surveillance operations in general. This require a lot of reading (and digging) at personal capacity, and few are up to the task. Information is undeniably scarce in the public domain, but 'conventional wisdom' goes a long way in hand.

let ask you something ? why Iran never tried to reverse engineer Harpoon Missile ? do you believe it was harder to reverse engineer than Chinese missiles ?
let be honest our experience with them at the all duration of war was crappy , in the Operation Praying Mantis we fired 2 Harpoon , USA fired 1 harpoon all of them missed , they had to use Standard Missile to sink Joshan (actually 5 of them ) against Sahand a ship that virtually had no air-defence they used 3 Harpoon and 4 AGM-123 Skipper II and a bunch of CBU-100 Cluster Bomb again one harpoon missed against the ship that had no defensive capabilities against it.

you see in that operation Harpoons only could hit the ship that had zero defense against it . also a question for you , how hard is for USA to disable a missile they themselves built ? a missile that we could not even hit a single Iraqi ship with it ?
you say what we learned from operation prying mantis , well let just say we learned that even USA can't use Harpoon to attack other ships. only ships that have zero countermeasure are vulnerable to it . we learned they need at least 5 missile and several bomb to sink a 270ton ship

And did you knew all that [before] Operation Praying Mantis?

My point is that Iran had a very limited idea of how its navy would fare against USN until Operation Praying Mantis in 1988. Iran also had a very limited idea of [how] USN will fight, and what type of assets will be effective.

Situation is similar today, but the gap have widened further. While Iran have noticeably advanced its war-fighting capability since 1988, US was not sitting idle either. Iranian naval forces have an idea of how they will choose to engage USN [again], based on the lessons they drew from Operation Praying Mantis, but they have a very limited idea of how USN will choose to engage them [again] on the other hand, and what type of assets will be effective this time.

The information I tend to divulge here, sound ALIEN to numerous Iranian members as apparent from the responses I am receiving in this thread alone. If this is the awareness level of Iranian members in general, then Iran is in for another rude awakening at some point. I suspect that many are teenagers here.

If Tom Clancy novels are your source of understanding military-related advances, then you are a "juvenile."

I hate to burst your bubble sunshine but that first pics doesnt look to be from sbirs,its very likely taken from a imaging sat in leo.In fact I found it on this site
https://reseauinternational.net/photo-satellite-destruction-du-boeing-mh17-chasseur/
The other 2 pics are from sbirs,but the images in the 2nd and 3rd pics are composites taken over several minutes of flight time of a large delta II booster,which would be very different to something like a fateh 110/zulfiqar which not only has a much,much smaller engine,and therefore a much,much smaller infrared signature [and additionally an unpowered separating gliding warhead in the zulfiqar] but is also a quasi ballistic missile ie it does not leave the atmosphere.In addition you have other problems ie the thousands of other ir events that occur on earth every day,even allowing for the ability to screen out most of these sbirs was still registering around 7000+ events just in the jan-aug 2015 period.Plus another problem is sunlight reflecting off of clouds,we can clearly see how bright the clouds are in these images,ironically it was this very phenomena that gave the ussr a near heart attack back in sept 83 with their infrared detection system.
In many ways its not a bad system for strategic early warning,but it certainly is not the instant all seeing eye of god that no ballistic missile can hide from,as you seem to believe it to be.
Lastly,Debka file!?....,really dude?...,really?
I mean the other 2 are bad enough,one zionist/israeli and the other one about as pro western as it gets,but debka is in a league all of its own,you pretty much blew whatever credibility you had the moment you posted a debka link.

Did I claim that every image is from SBIRS network? Putting words in my mouth now? The first image is [doctored], and the other two are [severely degraded] for "public use."

No agency would want the public to have a good idea of their surveillance capabilities [in all its glory] at any point in time. Even the Cold War era spy satellites - and their capabilities - are NOT cleared for public dissemination and inspection.

I was trying to point out the fact that modern-era surveillance satellites have the capability to notice aircraft while in motion [see above]. Some of the satellites are sensitive enough to capture infrared events of objects as small as an A2A missile while in motion [see below], and even infrared events of shells fired from the main battle tanks [pointers from relevant sources].

This snapshot is authentic:

- but DEGRADED for "public use."

NOTE: This (Ukrainian) fighter aircraft was NOT trying to shoot down a passenger plane [original snapshot].

Ignore the doctored image, and concentrate on the details. You can notice the aircraft illuminating (surface temperature), and the infrared signature of its missile while in motion. Any ballistic missile produce a much more significant infrared signature in comparison.

And you are jumping to ill-advised conclusions [on your own], about the systems which you do not understand even to a minor degree. SBIRS is not your typical commercial-purpose EO/IR gear with similar restrictions and limitations, and neither anybody in the public domain will tell you much about it. SENSITIVITY of the SBIRS platform, will be apparent to the public in DECADES from now (and mostly in writing); see my response to member Hack-Hook above.

I can only offer some tidbits.

"The SBIRS-GEO payload is comprised of two highly sophisticated instruments – a scanning sensor and a staring sensor, both sensitive in the infrared wavelength range. The scanning sensor provides continuous observation and surveillance for intercontinental ballistic missile launch detection while the staring sensor has a higher sensitivity and faster revisit rate to detect the low signature of short-range theater ballistic missiles." - SPACEFLIGHT 101

- the type of ballistic missile you are describing fall in the category of short-range theater types.

This is the best you will come to know at present:

Reference post: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/simorgh-class-drones-ashes-of-the-beast.455519/page-5#post-10970821

 

[Hack-Hook]

And did you knew all that [before] Operation Praying Mantis?

My point is that Iran had a very limited idea of how its navy would fare against USN until Operation Praying Mantis in 1988. Iran also had a very limited idea of [how] USN will fight, and what type of assets will be effective.

We knew we can't rely on harpoon from operation morvarid but we had no alternative ,we knew Seacat can't protect our ships but we had no alternative , those missiles were so useless that later we removed them and put a gun in their place.


About the satellite , I never said they are invisible but it seems you overestimated how these things work. Its not like they are picked in real time ,the satellite take pictures and then they will be sent to ground and then every square milimeter of them must be carefully examined in short if you see an aircraft in one of them that aircraft already finished its mission and returned to their bases .

 

[mohsen]

The interesting thing is that U.S is admitting that even less stealthy Iranian drones like Shahed-123 has evaded their radars, but some fools are still dreaming about their unbreachable bubble of delusions!

 

[Arminkh]

I hate to burst your bubble sunshine but that first pics doesnt look to be from sbirs,its very likely taken from a imaging sat in leo.In fact I found it on this site
https://reseauinternational.net/photo-satellite-destruction-du-boeing-mh17-chasseur/
The other 2 pics are from sbirs,but the images in the 2nd and 3rd pics are composites taken over several minutes of flight time of a large delta II booster,which would be very different to something like a fateh 110/zulfiqar which not only has a much,much smaller engine,and therefore a much,much smaller infrared signature [and additionally an unpowered separating gliding warhead in the zulfiqar] but is also a quasi ballistic missile ie it does not leave the atmosphere.In addition you have other problems ie the thousands of other ir events that occur on earth every day,even allowing for the ability to screen out most of these sbirs was still registering around 7000+ events just in the jan-aug 2015 period.Plus another problem is sunlight reflecting off of clouds,we can clearly see how bright the clouds are in these images,ironically it was this very phenomena that gave the ussr a near heart attack back in sept 83 with their infrared detection system.
In many ways its not a bad system for strategic early warning,but it certainly is not the instant all seeing eye of god that no ballistic missile can hide from,as you seem to believe it to be.
Lastly,Debka file!?....,really dude?...,really?
I mean the other 2 are bad enough,one zionist/israeli and the other one about as pro western as it gets,but debka is in a league all of its own,you pretty much blew whatever credibility you had the moment you posted a debka link.

One answer I always have for these "US Tech Worshipers" is this: The Malaysian Boeing that all of a sudden disappeared without a trace and I think they never found out what happened to it is a good example of how limited these technologies are.

I mean that aircraft was flying in one of the most crowded and militarized bodies of water on earth with naval units from most of these super doper countries present and yet, none of them had any clue what happened to that aircraft. That aircraft was as big as it gets with as large a radar surface as you can get and was not trying to hide itself and yet, there you go.

Now good luck with finding and tracking a gliding RV that is 1/100 the size of that aircraft cruising at 3 Mach or higher!

 

[TheImmortal]

One answer I always have for these "US Tech Worshipers" is this: The Malaysian Boeing that all of a sudden disappeared without a trace and I think they never found out what happened to it is a good example of how limited these technologies are.

I mean that aircraft was flying in one of the most crowded and militarized bodies of water on earth with naval units from most of these super doper countries present and yet, none of them had any clue what happened to that aircraft. That aircraft was as big as it gets with as large a radar surface as you can get and was not trying to hide itself and yet, there you go.

Now good luck with finding and tracking a gliding RV that is 1/100 the size of that aircraft cruising at 3 Mach or higher!

Not to take sides in this pointless arguement.

But the that aircraft was not flying in “most crowded” bodies of water. In fact, it did a U turn away from these areas and went towards the middle of the open ocean far off the coast of australia and arctic waters. There is very little spy satellite coverage in this area.

 

[scythian500]

Iranian naval forces have an idea of how they will choose to engage USN [again], based on the lessons they drew from Operation Praying Mantis, but they have a very limited idea of how USN will choose to engage them [again] on the other hand, and what type of assets will be effective this time.

funny the way you think.. If you have inside info because u work inside, then you should be fired by now... If you are not working inside, which I suspect you,re not, then you have no idea what you are talking about...you think on behalf of Iranian commanders and military complex as if you are living inside their heads!! to know what they think or have or will use!!

Actually academic wise.. You use logic totally upside down!! you,re defending by sword and offending by your shield!!... you,re using logic upside down and you are very much under the influence of US military Hollywood propaganda...

Effective weapons do not change that quick... This is why a 1970s Hydrogen bomb is still as effective and scary as 2018 Hydrogen bomb...Country A gets it a century ago and country B gets it now, it still does not matter... what matters is that both have the effective tool Today...

So in a 1988 battle, Side A did not have CIWS or EW to defend herself against incoming missiles... in 2018 it does... you can not know who win or fail..both can do... because opposite to what you boast about, you have no idea what are the tactics, strategies or weapons Iran will use in next praying mantis... You could only guess...but its not credible...

If you claim otherwise, please prove it with credible sources that you know what is going on inside Iranian and American commanders' head...

You could be naive to think, Iran after praying mantis, just gave up on the idea of taking revenge next time that a similar encounter happens...

The way you talk about US military almighty powers, then logically, they should not be worried about whatever Iran makes from weaponry locally... right? But guess what... Their main concern with Iran (today) is to find a way to force Iran abandon its weapons.. Why they don't object let,s say, Brazilians!!

Its so simple... when u find USA imposes soft or political war against certain country military hardware that simply means those nations are powerful enough to make USA spend so much energy trying to stop those weapons... see how USA see Russian S-400 deal with Turkey... They are trying to force Turkey not to get it coz they know it is very effective against them and it will limit their superduper military complex powers... right?

Every sane person here knows that US navy has more advanced equipment than all other navies..but this does not mean they win and others lose for sure... A ship has AESA radar..another one has PESA...both can be effective enough... almost all navies are using anti-ship cruise missiles today... not that much different... all of them using phalanx type CIWS these days... so it does not matter if US ships acquired these optimum capabilities 3 decades ago and Iran does it today... they both have it today...

So, unless you can prove what Iranian and American commanders will do in case of another Praying mantis battle, please stop trying to seem cool by copy pasting useless info... Memorizing some useless info, does not mean you can analyse better... In fact, it kinda means you don't analyse at all!!

The information I tend to divulge here, sound ALIEN to numerous Iranian members as apparent from the responses I am receiving in this thread alone. If this is the awareness level of Iranian members in general, then Iran is in for another rude awakening at some point. I suspect that many are teenagers here.

Non of Iranian members here are working in military complex... Why should a commander or informed member of Iranian military complex come here giving u info about what they are thinking or doing or will do in next battle? if you do the same..this tells a lot about you.. Which I doubt... It is very naive to give away useful info here.. Enemy could use it if they were not as informed as claim!!

 

[Arminkh]

Not to take sides in this pointless arguement.

But the that aircraft was not flying in “most crowded” bodies of water. In fact, it did a U turn away from these areas and went towards the middle of the open ocean far off the coast of australia and arctic waters. There is very little spy satellite coverage in this area.

If you connect 1 to 3 in your map, that line almost coincides with Malacca Strait that is the main shipping line between Pacific and Indian Ocean. That is the busiest straight in the world. It has an annual traffic of above 94,000. 25% of world traded goods passes through that straight.

Half of the path of the airplane between 2 and 3 lies on the main shipping line between Andaman Sea and that straight. Point 3 is above Andaman Sea which is the entrance to the straight. That sea alone is busier than Persian Gulf and definitely being closely watched.

 

[LeGenD]

The interesting thing is that U.S is admitting that even less stealthy Iranian drones like Shahed-123 has evaded their radars, but some fools are still dreaming about their unbreachable bubble of delusions!

Next, you will say that a Quadcopter can evade their radars.

[1] A Shahed-123 was shot down by a Turkish Jet on the Turkish-Syria border in the month of May in 2015.

[2] Another Shahed-123 was shot down in Iraq’s Nineveh Governorate in the month of February in 2016.

But Shahed-123 can evade radar systems, right? You should find another hobby, my friend. These discussions are not meant for you.

To give your [AMUSING] argument the benefit of doubt (not worth it though); there aren't many radar installations in Afghanistan, and its borders are not heavily guarded (numerous loopholes). NATO does not have a significant military presence in Afghanistan either, since 2014. It is possible for a small drone like Shahed-123 to slip into Afghanistan from one of the least defended sections of the border, and do its thing for a while, but you can BET your HOUSE on the fact that it will be spotted, and taken down at some point. Not surprisingly, your Shahad-123 fell into the hands of American troops in there [DIRECTLY], and now up for display in an exhibition which is actually bad news for Iran.

Here is another part:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1068175582461087744

Keep assuming that they are not aware, or do not have a good grasp of various developments across the world.

As for your Saegheh class drones being stealthy; they are LO to a degree that one was shot down as soon as it intruded into Israeli airspace. VLO, I would say.

One answer I always have for these "US Tech Worshipers" is this: The Malaysian Boeing that all of a sudden disappeared without a trace and I think they never found out what happened to it is a good example of how limited these technologies are.

I mean that aircraft was flying in one of the most crowded and militarized bodies of water on earth with naval units from most of these super doper countries present and yet, none of them had any clue what happened to that aircraft. That aircraft was as big as it gets with as large a radar surface as you can get and was not trying to hide itself and yet, there you go.

American Tech works as advertised on average (personal experience), and their military-grade assets are known to exceed expectations of potential users (numerous testimonials). Any IT expert will tell you from personal experience that American Tech has no peer in the world. Therefore, I do not get the worshiping part.

Flight MH370 became a casualty of INTERNAL SABOTAGE; this much was suspected since the beginning because this aircraft had no visible issues at the time of take-off, and Boeing 777 incorporate numerous safety and broadcasting measures by default. However, flight-related accidents are not sorted out in a day or two; it is important to understand why the aircraft crashed and/or who was responsible for sabotaging the flight (chain-of-events). Families of the passengers (victims) would seek answers from relevant authorities. It is also important to recover the BLACK BOX, and much of the searching effort was expended towards this end.

Problem is that the aircraft crashed into the Arabian Sea with such force that it disintegrated upon impact; good luck with finding a BLACK BOX in an ocean when it is not broadcasting anything. You have a better chance at finding a needle in the haystack in comparison.

Another issue was that the surveillance agencies were not willing to cooperate with each other to the extent they should have, and even with the Malaysian government.

Read this: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7577603/mh370-france-information-dad-lost-wife-kids/

More: https://www.news.com.au/travel/trav...0/news-story/a2197eee178ba5807988c3454ff7561e

People mistakenly assume that surveillance agencies are comfortable with sharing information of sensitive nature with each other, but this is not the case in practice. Not even in the case of US and Israel.

Also; a flight going missing over Arabian Sea - and not broadcasting much in the process - is a much less illuminating event than developments in a battlespace.

Now good luck with finding and tracking a gliding RV that is 1/100 the size of that aircraft cruising at 3 Mach or higher!

Sure.

Maneuvers of SM-2 interceptor in its effort to engage an MRBM-class RV:-

Maneuvers of SM-6 interceptor in its effort to engage an ALCM (different event):-

Whoops.

 

[mohsen]

Next, you will say that a Quadcopter can evade their radars.

[1] A Shahed-123 was shot down by a Turkish Jet on the Turkish-Syria border in the month of May in 2015.

[2] Another Shahed-123 was shot down in Iraq’s Nineveh Governorate in the month of February in 2016.

But Shahed-123 can evade radar systems, right? You should find another hobby, my friend. These discussions are not meant for you.

To give your [AMUSING] argument the benefit of doubt (not worth it though); there aren't many radar installations in Afghanistan, and its borders are not heavily guarded (numerous loopholes). NATO does not have a significant military presence in Afghanistan either, since 2014. It is possible for a small drone like Shahed-123 to slip into Afghanistan from one of the least defended sections of the border, and do its thing for a while, but you can BET your HOUSE on the fact that it will be spotted, and taken down at some point. Not surprisingly, your Shahad-123 fell into the hands of American troops in there [DIRECTLY], and now up for display in an exhibition which is actually bad news for Iran.

Here is another part:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1068175582461087744

Keep assuming that they are not aware, or do not have a good grasp of various developments across the world.

As for your Saegheh class drones being stealthy; they are LO to a degree that one was shot down as soon as it intruded into Israeli airspace. VLO, I would say.

Was it a joke or your real analysis?!

1.there are at least 4 different versions of Shahed-123, which version you are talking about? none, cause so far, except some pictures, Iran hasn't published any information about this drone.

2.Iran and Armenia had shot down Israeli Hermes-variant drone which is similar to shahed-123 and both countries have acknowledged it as radar evading drone.

3.not every detection is by radar, so don't try to act like you know the details about incidents.

4.drone in Iraq had crashed, there was no sign of shooting it, or maybe you think ISIS had more advanced radars than U.S in Afghanistan!

5.we are not talking about Afghanistan border, but right above U.S and NATO key bases in Afghanistan (with at least AN/TPS-75 radar).

6. I hope you don't wanna claim that U.S radar installations in Syria is more sophisticated than Afghanistan!

7.Saegheh drone (which also has different variants) was shot down by optical systems of a helicopter, not the Istael's air defense system, and it was flying so low that only a blind person could miss it, so again you can't say anything about it's radar evading characteristics.

 

[Tokhme khar]

What a chump this guy is.....lol.....funny he goes thru all the copy n paste but omits the part of successive US/ IDF/ Sawdi defeats at iranian hands from lebanon to Afghanistan. If the US had the balls to take on Iran, I'd bet they'd a fukkin done it right after they deposed Saddam and the talibs. Reality is different however. The US needs to grow a pair to take on Iran, something I don't see happening anytime soon.

 

[LeGenD]

funny the way you think.. If you have inside info because u work inside, then you should be fired by now... If you are not working inside, which I suspect you,re not, then you have no idea what you are talking about...you think on behalf of Iranian commanders and military complex as if you are living inside their heads!! to know what they think or have or will use!!

Actually academic wise.. You use logic totally upside down!! you,re defending by sword and offending by your shield!!... you,re using logic upside down and you are very much under the influence of US military Hollywood propaganda...

Effective weapons do not change that quick... This is why a 1970s Hydrogen bomb is still as effective and scary as 2018 Hydrogen bomb...Country A gets it a century ago and country B gets it now, it still does not matter... what matters is that both have the effective tool Today...

So in a 1988 battle, Side A did not have CIWS or EW to defend herself against incoming missiles... in 2018 it does... you can not know who win or fail..both can do... because opposite to what you boast about, you have no idea what are the tactics, strategies or weapons Iran will use in next praying mantis... You could only guess...but its not credible...

If you claim otherwise, please prove it with credible sources that you know what is going on inside Iranian and American commanders' head...

You could be naive to think, Iran after praying mantis, just gave up on the idea of taking revenge next time that a similar encounter happens...

The way you talk about US military almighty powers, then logically, they should not be worried about whatever Iran makes from weaponry locally... right? But guess what... Their main concern with Iran (today) is to find a way to force Iran abandon its weapons.. Why they don't object let,s say, Brazilians!!

Its so simple... when u find USA imposes soft or political war against certain country military hardware that simply means those nations are powerful enough to make USA spend so much energy trying to stop those weapons... see how USA see Russian S-400 deal with Turkey... They are trying to force Turkey not to get it coz they know it is very effective against them and it will limit their superduper military complex powers... right?

Every sane person here knows that US navy has more advanced equipment than all other navies..but this does not mean they win and others lose for sure... A ship has AESA radar..another one has PESA...both can be effective enough... almost all navies are using anti-ship cruise missiles today... not that much different... all of them using phalanx type CIWS these days... so it does not matter if US ships acquired these optimum capabilities 3 decades ago and Iran does it today... they both have it today...

So, unless you can prove what Iranian and American commanders will do in case of another Praying mantis battle, please stop trying to seem cool by copy pasting useless info... Memorizing some useless info, does not mean you can analyse better... In fact, it kinda means you don't analyse at all!!


Non of Iranian members here are working in military complex... Why should a commander or informed member of Iranian military complex come here giving u info about what they are thinking or doing or will do in next battle? if you do the same..this tells a lot about you.. Which I doubt... It is very naive to give away useful info here.. Enemy could use it if they were not as informed as claim!!

Whatever I have disclosed in my posts, is out in the public domain; nothing classified from my end.

IF administration (of this forum) get the impression that any post contain sensitive information, or I have violated copyright laws for certain type of content, then they may delete my post or remove such content. Feel free to alert any member of the administration if you find objectionable content in one of my posts. These discussions are intended to be SAFE for all contributors. If my posts are making you uncomfortable, then I shall stop.

1) I do not speak on the behalf of any military, agency or entity here.
2) I do not claim copyright over any photo I have shared; each belong to its rightful owner.
3) I am uploading some photos under the rules of FAIR USE. Others are directly cited from the relevant sources.

Iranian naval forces have a history of conducting live-fire exercises in the Arabian waters; simulating their battlefield doctrines, and testing their weapon systems. And USN is known to monitor such events: https://news.usni.org/2018/08/06/35603

Pointers such as 'closing the Straight of Hormuz' and 'dispersed swarm boat tactics' come from independent observations, and Iran itself. This footage is from Iran:

Very telling.

Of-course, those who monitor these events, and study Iranian military capabilities in general, know better, and what to do about it. I can give meaningful pointers but this discussion will branch-off to another discussion. This thread has already stretched a bit.

What a chump this guy is.....lol.....funny he goes thru all the copy n paste but omits the part of successive US/ IDF/ Sawdi defeats at iranian hands from lebanon to Afghanistan. If the US had the balls to take on Iran, I'd bet they'd a fukkin done it right after they deposed Saddam and the talibs. Reality is different however. The US needs to grow a pair to take on Iran, something I don't see happening anytime soon.

US and Iran have fought each other only once; Operation Praying Mantis.

Hezbollah-Israeli war (2006), and Houthi-Saudi war (ongoing), are NOT American conflicts.

You did squat in Afghanistan.

Now that US is done with Iraq, you better worry about the fate of your country. They are already subjecting your country to heavy sanctions, and providing evidence of shipments of arms from Iran to other entities.

I am not sure why you DESIRE war; do you think it is a joke? Your country will be ruins.

 

[Tokhme khar]

In case you haven't noticed, even though it is clear as day, the US can't fight. Iran has evicted the US from the entire northern middle east. The last vestiges of their hold remain in less than 5% of Syria today. You think the US has the balls to take on Iran? If you do, then you are dreaming.

Whatever I have disclosed in my posts, is out in the public domain; nothing classified from my end.

IF administration (of this forum) get the impression that any post contain sensitive information, or I have violated copyright laws for certain type of content, then they may delete my post or remove such content. Feel free to alert any member of the administration if you find objectionable content in one of my posts. These discussions are intended to be SAFE for all contributors. If my posts are making you uncomfortable, then I shall stop.

1) I do not speak on the behalf of any military, agency or entity here.
2) I do not claim copyright over any photo I have shared; each belong to its rightful owner.
3) I am uploading some photos under the rules of FAIR USE. Others are directly cited from the relevant sources.

Iranian naval forces have a history of conducting live-fire exercises in the Arabian waters; simulating their battlefield doctrines, and testing their weapon systems. And USN is known monitor such events: https://news.usni.org/2018/08/06/35603

Pointers such as 'closing the Straight of Hormuz' and 'dispersed swarm boat tactics' come from independent observations, and Iran itself. This footage is from Iran:

Very telling.

Of-course, those who monitor these events, and study Iranian military capabilities in general, know better, and what to do about it. I can give meaningful pointers but this discussion will branch-off to another discussion. This thread has already stretched a bit.


US and Iran have fought each other only once; Operation Praying Mantis.

Hezbollah-Israeli war (2006), and Houthi-Saudi war (ongoing), are NOT American conflicts.

You did squat in Afghanistan.

Now that US is done with Iraq, you better worry about the fate of your country. They are already subjecting your country to heavy sanctions, and providing evidence of shipments of arms from Iran to other entities.

I am not sure why you DESIRE war; do you think it is a joke? Your country will be ruins.

 

[raptor22]

Now that US is done with Iraq, you better worry about the fate of your country. They are already subjecting your country to heavy sanctions, and providing evidence of shipments of arms from Iran to other entities.

I am not sure why you DESIRE war; do you think it is a joke? Your country will be ruins.

No it is not new, it's been in this way for past 40 years noting has got changed ... what Trump is reimposing are the same sanctions once imposed by Obama administration. what he is doing is same thing that Bush administration did with Iran nuclear program "making stories" with the same Yosemite Sam. The fact is whomever that bowed to the US' will has been targeted and ruined to oblivion so far but those who have not and trusted their own people have survived, Many in the Bush administration were in favor of this idea "Everyone wants to go to Baghdad. Real men want to go to Tehran" but realities on the ground persuaded them not to so and I don't think any significant change has occurred to make it any different by now except the US has china's rapid military and economic growth Russia on the other side .. if it really starts a new war with Iran then it'd get bogged down in another self-made quagmire thousands times bigger than Iraq and Afghanistan wars combined , wars that have not been successful and not finished yet after 17 years, then I think they are stupid ... they can't enter a war with Iran that's why they are raising the stakes to force Iran to give them what they can not achieve through a military operation through negotiation which Iran rejected it too categorically ...
No one over here wants war in Iran the point is your defeat begins when you start to cave in. And fate of our country is secured and those waters are Persian gulf.

 

[scythian500]

the Arabian waters

where is that?

there aren't many radar installations in Afghanistan, and its borders are not heavily guarded (numerous loopholes). NATO does not have a significant military presence in Afghanistan either, since 2014. It is possible for a small drone like Shahed-123 to slip into Afghanistan from one of the least defended sections of the border, and do its thing for a while, but you can BET your HOUSE on the fact that it will be spotted, and taken down at some point.

Did n't you say, USA can spot every UAV flying in middle east using their sophisticated grid of satellites? Don't u think Afghanistan is a top priority place to watch when there are US and NATO presence in there?

 

[LeGenD]

1.there are at least 4 different versions of Shahed-123, which version you are talking about? none, cause so far, except some pictures, Iran hasn't published any information about this drone.

What is so special about this class of drones?

[1] A Shahed-123 was shot down by a Turkish Jet on the Turkish-Syria border in the month of May in 2015.

"On May 16, a Turkish F-16 flying out of Incirlik Air Base shot down an aircraft it accused of violating Turkish airspace near the Cilvegozu border crossing with Syria. Turkey’s Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu and Defense Minister İsmet Yılmaz claimed it was a Syrian helicopter. However, a subsequent statement by the Turkish Armed Forces referred only generally to the downing of “a Syrian aircraft.” Syria rejected the assertions of a lost helicopter, claiming instead that it had lost a drone in the incident.

Pictures of the wreckage posted on Twitter and in news outlets support Syria’s claim that the aircraft shot down was a drone, given the lack of a recovered pilot, alive or deceased, and wreckage inconsistent with a helicopter.

The wreckage and Syria’s contention that it lost a drone in the incident further narrows the pool of candidates for the aircraft, as Syria’s UAV fleet is comprised mostly of Iranian drones, with the notable exception of Soviet-era Tu-143 Reys. Two photographs taken in Syria where the wreckage of the aircraft landed reveal an engine cowling, rotary engine, V-tail stabs and a landing skid that are consistent with the components seen on the “Shahed-123” drone which crashed in Saravan, Iran."

Ample information in this link: https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena/2016/01/28/syria-new-iranian-drone/

[2] Another Shahed-123 was shot down in Iraq’s Nineveh Governorate in the month of February in 2016.

https://twitter.com/x/status/699264689344274432

https://twitter.com/x/status/699297990440263680

Not sure if these photos are showing the same variant, or the one that was reportedly downed is another variant.

2.Iran and Armenia had shot down Israeli Hermes-variant drone which is similar to shahed-123 and both countries have acknowledged it as radar evading drone.

The Israeli UAV which Iranian defenses managed to shoot down near Natanz nuclear facility on August 24, 2014, was not the radar-evading type, and it wasn't a derivative of Elbit Hermez 450 either:

"Even if the news that an Israeli drone was operating inside Iranian airspace is not a big surprise, what makes IRGC claims a bit weird is the fact that Hermes drones are not stealth and their operational range is known to be much lower than the 800 kilometers claimed by Hajizadeh (who added that the unmanned aircraft is capable of flying 1,600 kilometers without refueling). And, above all, the shape of the aircraft does not resemble that of a Hermes 180 or 450."

Source: https://theaviationist.com/2014/08/26/hermes-or-not-shot-down/

---

Here is a closer look at an Elibit Hermez 450 variant: http://www.european-security.com/n_index.php?id=2713

These type of drones are stated to have low RCS (subjective), but this does not imply that they are Low Observable (LO) in true sense.

A small UAV does have a chance at slipping through a lightly defended space, but a decent radar system will notice one (or multiple) when operating nearby, and alert its operators*. However, a country need substantial radar-netting to strengthen its chances in picking on such intrusions from any sector.

RQ-170 class of UAV are LO in true sense; they incorporate important radar-evading characteristics (airframe shaping; composite materials; RAM coating; IR suppression). US forces deployed one of these in Afghanistan in 2007 (the Beast of Kandahar), and it proved its high-penetration rate over the course of years (2007 - 2011), until its loss over Iran [malfunction suspected]. This variant was also involved in the American raid on Abbottabad on May 2, 2011, and proved its radar-evading characteristics in the process. Pakistani military-purpose radar coverage is not crude but fairly decent and comprehensive by modern standards. Recall the incident in which a JF-17 Thunder shot down an Iranian UAV on the Iran-Pakistan border? This drone was only 4 KM inside Balochistan when it was taken down.

RQ-180 class of UAV are VLO in true sense and operational since 2015. Not much is known about these UAV at the moment but they among the most advanced UAV in existence, and have an excellent penetration rate. Pentagon have gone to great lengths to conceal their operations from public domain.

3.not every detection is by radar, so don't try to act like you know the details about incidents.

Sure.

4.drone in Iraq had crashed, there was no sign of shooting it, or maybe you think ISIS had more advanced radars than U.S in Afghanistan!

See above.

5.we are not talking about Afghanistan border, but right above U.S and NATO key bases in Afghanistan (with at least AN/TPS-75 radar).

This might be true, but it is foolish to assume that American troops were not aware of this trespass (they take matters of 'situational awareness' seriously). They decided to CAPTURE this UAV in good shape, which is a more rewarding gain in my view.

*Alerting mechanism:

"The AN/TPS-75 Radar system provides a "real-time" radar airspace picture and data in support of the battle commander and the Ground Theater Air Control System (GTACS) via radio, telephone, microwave relay, or satellite communications link. The AN/TPS-75 radar system includes the UPX-27 IFF/SIF equipment, Tactical Air Operation Interface Gp OA 9194/TYQ-23(V)2, Modular Control Equipment Interface Group (MIG) and AN/TLQ-32 ARM Decoy.

The AN/TPS-75 is a mobile ground radar set designed to conduct long-range search and altitude-finding operations simultaneously. Data from the AN/TPS-75 can be combined with information from other radar to form an integrated picture of the aerial battlefield for theater commanders. The 729th Air Control Squadron, Hill AFB, Utah, uses this radar for a variety of missions. The self-contained data gathering system operates independent of inclement weather and jamming environments and requires only a 400-Hz power source to operate." - Global Security

They also have fielded one PTDS near Kabul. FYI: https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/blimp-in-kabul

My point is that NATO does not have a substantial military presence in Afghanistan since 2014:

They pulled a large number of troops (and assets) from Afghanistan in 2014 [decision of Obama administration], and shifted the burden of securing/governing numerous sectors of Afghanistan to the Afghan National Army henceforth. Accordingly, the scale/intensity of their 'surveillance activities' in this region is nowhere close to the levels of what it used to be in 2014 and earlier years.

6. I hope you don't wanna claim that U.S radar installations in Syria is more sophisticated than Afghanistan!

US have stationed a powerful surveillance (AESA) radar system in Israel since 2017. FYI: https://worldview.stratfor.com/article/israel-us-bmd-radar-arrives

They cannot take Syria lightly because of Russian and Iranian forces in the country, a significant set-of-defenses in the region, and the perceived-threat of Iranian ballistic missiles to Israel.

Situation in Afghanistan is much less explosive, and asymmetric, in comparison. Your point no. 6 is absolutely true - LMAO.

7.Saegheh drone (which also has different variants) was shot down by optical systems of a helicopter, not the Istael's air defense system, and it was flying so low that only a blind person could miss it, so again you can't say anything about it's radar evading characteristics.

Saegheh class UAV are fairly advanced (credit where due).

Iranian UAV was flying at a low altitude as a strategy to evade radar detection (like a cruise missile), but powerful Israeli/American radar systems were tracking its movement in real-time:

Officers here said Israel maintained persistent intelligence of the drone as it took off from the Palmyra area of Syria, made its way through northern Jordan and entered Israeli airspace, where it was shot down by an Israeli Apache helicopter. “We have full situational awareness, 24/7 … and we remain steadfast in the face of the strategic aims of Iran and Hezbollah,” Bar said.

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/global/...d-iranian-drone-is-a-knockoff-of-us-sentinel/

Still think that Iranian ballistic missiles and UAV are invisible to American forces across Syria, Iraq and Iran? Think again.

where is that?

Is this a serious question?

Did n't you say, USA can spot every UAV flying in middle east using their sophisticated grid of satellites? Don't u think Afghanistan is a top priority place to watch when there are US and NATO presence in there?

See my responses above.

And yes, their spaceborne surveillance is a whole new can of worms, and very powerful on its own. Huge number of assassinations (via drone strikes) that have occurred in Afghanistan, Yemen and Pakistan since 2001, are due to the mechanisms of NSA. I have access to declassified information in this regard.

NSA was also behind the Stuxnet infiltration incident in the Natanz nuclear facility in 2014, in case you didn't knew.