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Sikh Light Infantry officers, soldiers clash during boxing match; 3 hurt

You know what I mean.

How often do these 10th standard passout get to go for officer training ? I have heard that Indian Army is having a shortage of officers.

We can all see where the NDA passed out 'officers' have lead the IA. The first post of this thread is in their honor.

You must be the son of a soldier thatswhy you are being so partial in your comments.And the wife comment shows your mentality coz had you ever got the honour of being invited in a IA party you would have seen there are bartenders and waiters to serve alcohol and not junior officers wife...dont fcking make stories ourt of ur ***.

And by the way the rank and file are no where in terms of knowledge,sophistication forget even conversing in plain English language.How the heck can we make them officers when for basic decision making also they need inputs from their officers.

The ones who show the talent are given chance for being an officer and exams are conducted every year.We cant make a village gawar an officer just to impress your kind.Standards cannot be lowered.
 
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What do you mean by getting served by junior officers wife?

And the absurd logic you are applying is bullshit.According to you a 10th class passout having 15 years of service is more qualified than a 22 year old graduate and trained in NDA and IMA?

Indian Army officers have always lead from the front unlike western armies and till date this is the reason we have such a high officer to soldier kill ratio.

Any war you take from Kargil to 1948 the Officer of the IA has performed well and lead from the front be it Vikram Batra in 99 or Somnath in 1948.

they both have different things in them , you cant compare the qualities of two . But brother you are away from reality . Officers do use their wife as a ladder to their promotion and this thing not much rare in Navy and Air forces , but its kind of rare in army .

And yes , these new officers from NDA & IMA should have to learn how to respect the Jawans . Seniority and experience also matters in the armed forces .
 
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The Sikh LI is composed primarily of scheduled caste Sikhs mainly from the Chamar & Chura castes (Ramdasia and Mazabhi). But the officers are from any caste.

It is an elite unit and well decorated unit.

does that make a difference which caste they are from, so you are implying that if somebody is from chamar caste does that have some bad or good tendencies then the officers.?? it is a clear case of indiscipline ..the most regret is for the officers wo dont have management skills to take control of their tempers and emotions!!

sasti daru ka kamal hai sab . no problem tommorow they will be again friends happen to us many times ;)

how do you know..i thought you guys dont drink ??
 
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talks volumes about state of discipline in indian forces....wife swapping orgies, seduction of fellow officers wives, fighting among officers and ranks............what a bunch of hooligans


Sikh Light Infantry officers, soldiers clash during boxing match; 3 hurt - Rediff.com India News


Sikh Light Infantry officers, soldiers clash during boxing match; 3 hurt

October 11, 2013 14:09 IST




Officers and soldiers of the Sikh Light Infantry clashed in Meerut on Friday, leaving two officers including the second-in-command of the unit injured.

The incident took place in the 10 Sikh Light Infantry regiment during an inter-company boxing match there, sources said in New Delhi.



The Army Headquarters said a Brigadier-level officer has been tasked to conduct a Court of Inquiry into the clash.

The Lt Col, who is the second-in-command of the unit, has been hospitalised in the local military health facility after he was beaten up by the jawans after they felt they were being discriminated against, the sources said.

Army Chief Gen Bikram Singh also belongs to the Sikh LI regiment. The 10 Sikh LI is based in Delhi and is in Meerut for practice, Army officials said.

The Army tried to downplay the incident, saying in contact sports such as boxing, emotions and passions run high and sometimes result in such clashes and officers and men have not been separated.

In the last couple of years, the number of clashes between officers and jawans has gone up considerably.

On August 8, 2012, jawans agitated against the commanding officer and certain functionaries of the 16 cavalry unit in Samba, while on May 10-11, 2012, a case of manhandling involving officers and other ranks of the 226 artillery unit took place at the Mahe field firing range in Leh, he said.

On April 29, 2010, an altercation had taken place between an officer and a jawan of the 45 cavalry unit in Gurdaspur.

The army has already taken steps against its personnel in these cases and more than 200 officers and jawans have faced disciplinary or administrative action last year.

After incidents of clashes between officers and jawans, Army commanders have been told to exercise zero tolerance in such cases and exemplary punishment is promulgated to give "necessary preventive lessons" to the personnel.
 
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talks volumes about state of discipline in indian forces....wife swapping orgies, seduction of fellow officers wives, fighting among officers and ranks............what a bunch of hooligans

you dont get your wet dreams started!
 
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What exactly are you implying?

You cannot generalize and form an opinion about the whole army because of such sporadic instances.

If in any way you are questioning the integrity and the values of the Indian Army i would say you are being Naive.

What do you think is the reason for the glorious past of the IA? The same officers who you seem to put the blame on. Please the same people are defending our borders with full commitment.

My implications are pretty clear for anyone who knows the truth.

The integrity and values of the officers of the IA, IAF & IN has been questioned for long now. It has been steadily declining and the rate of decline is only increasing. Of course the latest excuse is that the officers are from a society that is corrupt. The next time we loose a war these officers will blame the govt. for not providing them with the latest weapons etc, moral support etc. I just hope we never get to see that reality in my lifetime.

Its the BSF who is guarding our borders and they are doing a lousy job as well. Taking money to let in terrorist and smugglers.
 
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sasti daru ka kamal hai sab . no problem tommorow they will be again friends happen to us many times ;)





I don't know which Branch of Armed Forces you have served or are currently serving.

I am a former PAF Officer and I cannot even imagine an Airmen or Jawan coming within five feet of me when I served.

In Pakistan Armed Forces, striking a superior officer is a court martial offense that can put you in Jail for many years after you are dishonorably discharged.
 
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You must be the son of a soldier thatswhy you are being so partial in your comments.And the wife comment shows your mentality coz had you ever got the honour of being invited in a IA party you would have seen there are bartenders and waiters to serve alcohol and not junior officers wife...dont fcking make stories ourt of ur ***.

And by the way the rank and file are no where in terms of knowledge,sophistication forget even conversing in plain English language.How the heck can we make them officers when for basic decision making also they need inputs from their officers.

The ones who show the talent are given chance for being an officer and exams are conducted every year.We cant make a village gawar an officer just to impress your kind.Standards cannot be lowered.

LOL. In an army that is 1.13 million strong and does not speak english, the officers 'sophistication' is measured by his ability to speak english. Pathetic. Maybe they can now start speaking french and become more 'sophisticated'.

Most soldiers in India speak 2 or 3 languages. For the rest there is Rapidex english speaking course. More laughable is the suggestion that an jawan with 15 years real time experience cannot make decision that an win wars or has the ability to learn tactics and strategies.

Standards of the officers has been steadily declining at an exponential rate. And as long as people refuse the see the facts before them there is no hope of correcting that decline. I would rather have 'village gawar' made officers like in the more professional US army than continue with the NDA caste system that churns out officers without moral fiber.
 
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LOL. In an army that is 1.13 million strong and does not speak english, the officers 'sophistication' is measured by his ability to speak english. Pathetic. Maybe they can now start speaking french and become more 'sophisticated'.

Most soldiers in India speak 2 or 3 languages. For the rest there is Rapidex english speaking course. More laughable is the suggestion that an jawan with 15 years real time experience cannot make decision that an win wars or has the ability to learn tactics and strategies.

Standards of the officers has been steadily declining at an exponential rate. And as long as people refuse the see the facts before them there is no hope of correcting that decline. I would rather have 'village gawar' made officers like in the more professional US army than continue with the NDA caste system that churns out officers without moral fiber.

Says someone who makes stories about senior officers being served by juniors wife.Who has never been to an 'officers mess' and has no idea that waiters and bartender are there for the job.

And who are you to judge that the standards are declining?Were you the Corp Commander at the time of Independence that you see todays officer not as capable as British Raj.

It is no secret that in recent excercises with western armies the westerners have always been impressed by the IA officer but rated the soldier as not very good.And that is true also becuase the recruit or the sepoy of the IA has no decision making ability.

They dont have the maturity till the time they become a subeidaar...by the way whom am i trying to explain all this?..someone who reads TOI and assumes that IA officers have gang bang parties and someone who has no idea even about the rank system.
 
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Says someone who makes stories about senior officers being served by juniors wife.Who has never been to an 'officers mess' and has no idea that waiters and bartender are there for the job.

And who are you to judge that the standards are declining?Were you the Corp Commander at the time of Independence that you see todays officer not as capable as British Raj.

It is no secret that in recent excercises with western armies the westerners have always been impressed by the IA officer but rated the soldier as not very good.And that is true also becuase the recruit or the sepoy of the IA has no decision making ability.

They dont have the maturity till the time they become a subeidaar...by the way whom am i trying to explain all this?..someone who reads TOI and assumes that IA officers have gang bang parties and someone who has no idea even about the rank system.

You are blind so I don't think any kind of eye opener is going to make you see the writing on the wall. But here goes nothing,

Bikram Singh’ Congo Sex Scandal | Indian Military News

An entire battalion of the Sikh regiment was under the scanner following the startling revelations about sexual misconduct by four women. The allegations gained ground after children with distinct Indian features were delivered by the women.

All this when Bikram Singh, our current Chief was head of that congo mission. One can see the integrity, character and moral fiber of these 'officers'. And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

Just take a count of these Mini-Mutinies for the last 100 years and form you own conclusion. That might give you something to chew on.

Your foolish claim that jawans have no decision making ability is laughable. Its obvious to most that they have no decision making RIGHTS nor are they allowed to have more responsibility. The old British Raj treatment of jawan continues. NDA high castes have become the new masters, IAS has become the new babu's.

Continue with your blind hero worship. Don't let facts hit you on your way out.
 
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The Indian solider and his struggle with change - Rediff.com India News


The average Indian soldier remains as hardy as before but he is certainly confused with the pace of change occurring all around him. It is here that the leaders -- the officers -- will have to adapt themselves to the new reality, says Nikhil Gokhale.




On October 10, when soldiers of the 10 Sikh Light Infantry beat up a couple of officers in the wake of an internal boxing competition, eyebrows were raised over the incident across the Army. The incident acquired further salience because the current Army Chief General Bikram Singh also belongs to the same regiment, although to be fair to him it would be gross exaggeration and overreach to embroil him in the post-mortem of the event. Unfortunately for him, this is exactly what was done by a section of the media.

But blaming the media is akin to shooting the messenger. The fact is: the Indian Army is going through a churn and there have been at least four incidents of gross indiscipline and mini revolt within different battalions in the past two years, an inconvenient truth that cannot and should not be brushed under the carpet.

As I wrote in a longish paper for the Institute of Defence Studies and Analyses in March this year, 'Although from disaster relief in floods, tsunami, and earthquakes to rescuing infant Prince from a deep tube well and from quelling rioters in communal strife to being the last resort in internal counter-insurgency operations, the Indian Army is omnipresent; as an instrument of the State the Army’s effectiveness is being blunted through a series of ill-advised and ill-thought-out decisions.'

The Army remains rooted in an outdated, British-inherited system that is struggling to cope with the combination of challenges posed by demands of modern warfare and a society that is undergoing a great churn.

This has posed a great challenge to the famous officer-men relationship in the Indian armed forces. In the past decade, the armed forces are faced with a new problem: increasing incidents of indiscipline, suicides and fratricide. Are these incidents happening because the traditional bond between officers and men, the bedrock on which the military functions, is fraying at the edges? Are there other external factors that are impinging upon the armed forces' functioning and eroding some of its admirable values?

Some studies have been initiated to get to the root of the problem after it was noticed that more than 90 soldiers were committing suicide every year since 2003, the figure going up to an alarming 150 in 2008. Adding to the worry is the growing cases of indiscipline and intolerance. In 2012 alone, there were at least three cases of showdown between men and officers. At least 50 to 60 soldiers of an artillery unit clashed with a group of officers after a young officer allegedly beat up a jawan, leading to near-mutiny among the soldiers.

There were a couple of other instances where tension between jawans and officers boiled over, both the incidents happening in two different armoured regiments, one following suicide by a soldier. This set the alarm bells ringing in the army headquarters and although the top brass publicly maintained the issue wasn’t as serious as made out to be, Defence Minister A K Antony in a written answer to the Lok Sabha, said, “The incident of suicide by an army personnel on August 8, 2012, in the Samba sector of Jammu and Kashmir led to unrest.”

A former vice-chief of the army staff, Lieutenant General Vijay Oberoi, also said it's a matter of concern and it's time to take note. In a recent article General Oberoi said, 'Three incidents of collective indiscipline by jawans in the last few months, reflecting a breakdown in the traditionally close officer-man relationship, are a cause for concern, especially as all three of them are related to combat units, where a stable and healthy officer-man relationship is an article of faith.'

Some others, however, maintain that these are isolated incidents and they should not be taken as an indication of a trend in as large an army as India’s with 1.1 million soldiers. But for a force that prides itself on its standards of training and discipline, these incidents should certainly serve as timely warnings. As I wrote in the immediate aftermath of these acts of indiscipline: It's time to ask the question -- Is the Indian Army feeling the heat of being in perpetual operations? Are our soldiers' stress levels peaking dangerously? Making them prone to acts of indiscriminate violence?

There are no straight answers.

Yes, there is a problem. But the problem is an outcome of a combination of factors: Erosion in the soldiers' status in society, prolonged deployment in monotonous and thankless counter-insurgency jobs, crippling shortage of officers in combat units, and, ironically, easier communication between families and soldiers!

A psychiatric study by army doctors a couple of years ago on 'Evolving Medical Strategies for Low Intensity Conflicts' revealed the huge range of issues soldiers in such situations have to confront, contradictions between war and low-intensity conflict situations and particularly the concepts of 'enemy', 'objective' and 'minimum force'.

Some other findings were:

• In general war the nation looks upon the soldier as a saviour, but here he is at the receiving end of public hostility.

• A hostile vernacular press keeps badgering the security forces, projecting them as perpetrators of oppression.

• Continuous operations affect rest, sleep and body clocks, leading to mental and physical exhaustion.

• Monotony, the lure of the numbers game, and low manning strength of units lead to overuse and fast burnout.

Operating in a tension-ridden counter-insurgency environment does lead to certain stress among the jawans, but that is only one of the factors. The main worry are the problems back home -- land disputes, tensions within the family -- rising aspirations, lack of good pay and allowances, and also the falling standards of supervision from some officers, and all these factors have led to major stress.

But there are many non-combat reasons that lead to stress.

During my travels in counter-insurgency areas, I have often come across company commanders telling me how, for many soldiers, tensions at home create unbearable stress. Often a land dispute back home or a family feud weighs heavy on the soldier’s mind.

For the ordinary soldier, the smallest patch of land back home is the most precious property. Again, I have frequently come across a common thread where soldiers say there is no tension in actual work of counter-insurgency. The main problem for the fauji comes from his domestic situation.

Add to it the fact that society no longer respects the soldier and his work in protecting the nation. A local politician, a thanedar, seem to command more clout in society today. This has often led to loss of self-esteem among ordinary soldiers. A recent movie, Paan Singh Tomar, depicted, in some measure, the humiliation that a soldier faces in the civilian environment, both while serving and after retirement from the armed forces.

As a former army commander had once pointed out to me, "You see he (the soldier) comes from a society where he compares himself with others and when he realises that he is at a disadvantage -- the kind of respect that his predecessors had is no longer there."

Senior officers point out that most suicide and fratricide cases take place after soldiers return from leave. It is precisely this concern that had prompted Antony to write to all chief ministers some years ago asking them to sensitise district administrations in their states to the needs of the soldiers. State governments were asked to set up a mechanism at district and state levels to address soldiers' grievances.

And yet, the Army must look within too.

Soldiers these days are better educated and consequently better aware of their rights. This, coupled with falling standards of command and control among some of the undeserving officers who have risen to command units, is becoming a major cause for worry.

As the armed forces are in themselves a microcosm of India, the rising education and awareness levels in recruits are easily perceived. A sea change from yesteryear is now visible in the hordes of young men who crowd recruitment rallies across the country. Most hopefuls are the educated unemployed youth who turn towards military for acquiring early financial and social security. Educational qualification is Std XII on an average, many being graduates too. The stereotype of an innocent, less educated but hardy soldier is now a thing of the past. The officer base has also shifted predominantly to the middle class. This has further narrowed the gap between the ‘leaders’ and ‘followers’.

An acute shortage of officers at the cutting edge level is the other big factor contributing to an increasing gap between soldiers and officers. Against an authorised strength of over 22 officers for a combat battalion, there are at best eight or nine officers available to the commanding officer these days.

Very often young officers with less than two years of service are commanding companies! Even in the battalion headquarters, one officer ends up doing the job of three given the shortage. There is no time to interact with soldiers. In the old days, a game of football or hockey was the best way to get to know each other. Not any longer.

So what is the way forward?

The average Indian soldier remains as hardy as before but he is certainly confused with the pace of change occurring all around him. It is here that the leaders -- the officers -- will have to adapt themselves to the new reality. The age-old system of regimental traditions and values is robust and serves to develop camaraderie and loyalty between the led and the leader even now. The new fashion to dismiss them as outdated ideas must be arrested. Military ethos are not developed overnight and are certainly not imbibed by pandering blindly to the changes in society.

What, however, must be done is to eliminate the overwhelming trend to be a ‘careerist'. The desire to advance career at any cost, to strive for promotion even by cutting corners, and craving for awards as a means to boost chances of attaining the next rank has become a rampant practice among the officer class. Preservation of self has exaggerated that protection and advancement of career at all levels seem to have become a sine qua non for most officers.

That must change. And that change must come from the top.

Finally, if the led are to believe the leader, the leader must walk the talk. Officers must believe in themselves and the system that they work in. They must take pride in the fact that the military is essentially different in its work culture, ethos, traditions and values from any other entity.

The Indian military, despite its recent problems, remains a very fine institution. To remain relevant and effective, it must however embrace change with discretion. Therein lies the trick in meeting the increasing challenge posed to the military leadership.

Image: Soldiers from the Sikh Li regiment take part in the Army Day parade in New Delhi

Photograph: B Mathur/Reuters

Nitin Gokhale is Editor, Security and Strategic Affairs, with NDTV
 
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This is a beautiful article, well thought out and well articulated.

IA should realize that it can no longer pretend as if there is no problem and resist taking drastic action. Strong leadership is the need of the hour, but that is missing and is unlikely to be found anytime soon. The other practical option is to take and objective view of things and make rational choices. That means throwing out the old time tested British inherited officer thinking.


The Army remains rooted in an outdated, British-inherited system that is struggling to cope with the combination of challenges posed by demands of modern warfare and a society that is undergoing a great churn.

This is problem no. 1. IA has been so resistant to change that they have been completely blindsided by this reality.

Some studies have been initiated to get to the root of the problem after it was noticed that more than 90 soldiers were committing suicide every year since 2003, the figure going up to an alarming 150 in 2008. Adding to the worry is the growing cases of indiscipline and intolerance. In 2012 alone, there were at least three cases of showdown between men and officers. At least 50 to 60 soldiers of an artillery unit clashed with a group of officers after a young officer allegedly beat up a jawan, leading to near-mutiny among the soldiers.

There were a couple of other instances where tension between jawans and officers boiled over, both the incidents happening in two different armoured regiments, one following suicide by a soldier. This set the alarm bells ringing in the army headquarters and although the top brass publicly maintained the issue wasn’t as serious as made out to be, Defence Minister A K Antony in a written answer to the Lok Sabha, said, “The incident of suicide by an army personnel on August 8, 2012, in the Samba sector of Jammu and Kashmir led to unrest.”

These are one's that came out in public. For one such incident that comes out, 10 stays hidden.


During my travels in counter-insurgency areas, I have often come across company commanders telling me how, for many soldiers, tensions at home create unbearable stress. Often a land dispute back home or a family feud weighs heavy on the soldier’s mind.

For the ordinary soldier, the smallest patch of land back home is the most precious property. Again, I have frequently come across a common thread where soldiers say there is no tension in actual work of counter-insurgency. The main problem for the fauji comes from his domestic situation.

Add to it the fact that society no longer respects the soldier and his work in protecting the nation. A local politician, a thanedar, seem to command more clout in society today. This has often led to loss of self-esteem among ordinary soldiers. A recent movie, Paan Singh Tomar, depicted, in some measure, the humiliation that a soldier faces in the civilian environment, both while serving and after retirement from the armed forces.

As a former army commander had once pointed out to me, "You see he (the soldier) comes from a society where he compares himself with others and when he realises that he is at a disadvantage -- the kind of respect that his predecessors had is no longer there."

Senior officers point out that most suicide and fratricide cases take place after soldiers return from leave. It is precisely this concern that had prompted Antony to write to all chief ministers some years ago asking them to sensitise district administrations in their states to the needs of the soldiers. State governments were asked to set up a mechanism at district and state levels to address soldiers' grievances.

IA Leadership has failed to recognize that they have no say in what happens back home. Instead of providing leadership in safeguarding jawan rights, they have taken an cowardly path of pleading with the state govt. to correct this.

Soldiers these days are better educated and consequently better aware of their rights. This, coupled with falling standards of command and control among some of the undeserving officers who have risen to command units, is becoming a major cause for worry.

As the armed forces are in themselves a microcosm of India, the rising education and awareness levels in recruits are easily perceived. A sea change from yesteryear is now visible in the hordes of young men who crowd recruitment rallies across the country. Most hopefuls are the educated unemployed youth who turn towards military for acquiring early financial and social security. Educational qualification is Std XII on an average, many being graduates too. The stereotype of an innocent, less educated but hardy soldier is now a thing of the past. The officer base has also shifted predominantly to the middle class. This has further narrowed the gap between the ‘leaders’ and ‘followers’.

An acute shortage of officers at the cutting edge level is the other big factor contributing to an increasing gap between soldiers and officers. Against an authorised strength of over 22 officers for a combat battalion, there are at best eight or nine officers available to the commanding officer these days.

Incredible. Can you imagine a peace time scenario where 8-9 men are doing the job of 22 officers ? The pig headed IA leadership still refuses to help jawans get trained as officers to fill this gap. Imagine in an army of 1.13 million soldiers, IA cannot find 1000 soldiers who has grown and learned how to be officers. There is no system in place to ensure this natural progression of career. Instead they fight this natural evolution.

They would rather stick their head in the sand than correct this situation by taking the most obvious solution.

What, however, must be done is to eliminate the overwhelming trend to be a ‘careerist'. The desire to advance career at any cost, to strive for promotion even by cutting corners, and craving for awards as a means to boost chances of attaining the next rank has become a rampant practice among the officer class. Preservation of self has exaggerated that protection and advancement of career at all levels seem to have become a sine qua non for most officers.

That must change. And that change must come from the top.

Good luck with that.
 
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My implications are pretty clear for anyone who knows the truth.

The integrity and values of the officers of the IA, IAF & IN has been questioned for long now. It has been steadily declining and the rate of decline is only increasing. Of course the latest excuse is that the officers are from a society that is corrupt. The next time we loose a war these officers will blame the govt. for not providing them with the latest weapons etc, moral support etc. I just hope we never get to see that reality in my lifetime.

Its the BSF who is guarding our borders and they are doing a lousy job as well. Taking money to let in terrorist and smugglers.

See i too feel disappointed by these incidents and more so because its only in recent times that we have seen a surge in such reports coming out in open.

But still i cannot question the integrity and the values of our armed forces because of such instances.

As for your belief, you may know something which i don't and hence what you have said above about BSF taking money then please share some links for the same.

And don't you agree that the Govt is responsible for the condition the armed forces are in? Yes kickbacks, corruption would pretty much be the reason for any loss on our side. Did you see the Govt taking any strong action after the LOC incident? Its only because our babus do not give a free hand to army when it comes to tackling border issues we are always on the defensive. And because of such corrupt people in our system domestic projects never get the importance that they should. All this leads to frustration among the amred forces.

So who should we blame? The poor Jawan? The attitude that our govt has towards the armed forces is just pathetic. We can't even give a suitable pension to our soldiers how are we even expecting new fancy toys for the army?

The next time the war comes knocking on our doors the same people would fight with full commitment with whatever they have. This is the attitude and the courage of our forces. Please don't question that.
 
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See i too feel disappointed by these incidents and more so because its only in recent times that we have seen a surge in such reports coming out in open.

But still i cannot question the integrity and the values of our armed forces because of such instances.

As for your belief, you may know something which i don't and hence what you have said above about BSF taking money then please share some links for the same.

This is a problem I find in too many Indians. Fear to ask tough questions or take tough stands or make tough choices.

Study finds BSF jawans need better care as the security force fails to provide basic amenities to its men : North, News - India Today
Attari truckers union accuse CWC, BSF men of corruption - Times Of India
SC upholds sack of corrupt BSF officer - India - DNA

How do you think 3.2 million Bangladeshi's have entered India ? (these are official UN figures, real figures are Far Higher)

And don't you agree that the Govt is responsible for the condition the armed forces are in? Yes kickbacks, corruption would pretty much be the reason for any loss on our side. Did you see the Govt taking any strong action after the LOC incident? Its only because our babus do not give a free hand to army when it comes to tackling border issues we are always on the defensive. And because of such corrupt people in our system domestic projects never get the importance that they should. All this leads to frustration among the amred forces.

No. I do not agree. Govt. is responsible for everything that happen in India, but that does not mean they need to be blamed for everything that happen in India.

IA Leadership is squarely to be blamed for their spineless capitulations to the Babu's and politicians to further their career. Non had the character to create a scene, fight for their rights or even have the integrity to resign.

And when leadership fail, you get what you see today.

So who should we blame? The poor Jawan? The attitude that our govt has towards the armed forces is just pathetic. We can't even give a suitable pension to our soldiers how are we even expecting new fancy toys for the army?

The next time the war comes knocking on our doors the same people would fight with full commitment with whatever they have. This is the attitude and the courage of our forces. Please don't question that.

How many Army officers have resigned or how many army chiefs have fought hard and Loud for the army jawans pensions ? ZERO.

You know why ? ....because these NDA 'Officers' are more concerned about their promotion and career advancement rather than the lives of their fellow jawans.

And guess what ? Today these Jawans know it too. Expect more such mutinies in the coming days. Don't say I did not warn you.

I am not doubting their courage, only their integrity, character and moral strength.
 
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In my opinion the officers are to be blamed for these incidents, if it comes down to fisticuffs- shows a total breakdown in the sacred trust between a officer gentlemen, and the men he leads.

Something seriously wrong in the indian armed forces.
 
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