Should the next Al-Khalid be based on Turkish Altay tank ?

[Nutuk]

I believe the Al Khalid is a fine tank that will do OK and affordable enough for large numbers.

IMO the best thing is that Pakistan continues the Al Khalid and Turkey the Altay tank, and combine in the future their capacities to develop a new joint tank for replacement.

 

[applesauce]

the Al Khalid is expected to face indian tanks not american M1s, india will be using t-72 and t-90 which is based on t-72. against india, currently it is good enough but yes against the likes of M1-A1 and A2s and Leopard 2's it may not be good enough, china saw the t-72's in action in iraq(specifically their inability to combat western tanks) too hence the development and deployment of T-99 as well as heavy upgrade of t-96 to the t-96G standard

 

[farhan_9909]

who told you this ?

at present the Al khalid has a 650Mm turret without ERA.
And Al khalid II will use a 1500HP engine.re designed turret.weight will be around 55-60tons.

Al khalid at present is a king of desert.remember when indians tested the t-90 is thar desert of rajistan the t-90 failed.

Al khalid II will be rolled out after few years..and personally i think it will be comparable to leopard 2 and way better then atlay.atlay is turkey first tank.so it will need some time to mature..while Al khalid is enough mature now..

even at present the Al khalid I is comparable to most of modern tanks

 

[Mani2020]

Hello guys,

China has been helping us alot and we are thankful for them. However, Chinese are 20 years behind western countries in military Technology. Our Al-khalid tanks are based on the outdated Chinese T-85 tank which itself is based on the Soviet T-72 Tanks. We all know how the Iraqi T-72 were destroyed one by one by western Tanks like Abrams and Leopard.

In all honesty, the Best tanks in the world are Abrams, Leopard and the British Challenger. The Koreans are developing an advance tank K2 Black panther which is comparable to best western tanks. The Koreans have sold Turkey all the advance K2 tank technology to make the Turkish Altay Tank. I believe Pakistan needs to collaborate with Turkey and get the technology transfer from the Altay Tank to incorporate in our future Al-khalid Tank. The chinese technology can't compete with the Turkish/Korean/Western technology.


I am afraid al-khalids in their current form if ever were faced with Leopards or Abrams would end up like the Iraqi T-72 Tanks

Are you drunk? do you know what are you saying?

Last time the Abrams were tested by Pakistan in Deserts of Pakistan Abrams failed against Chinese T-59 tanks when it came to firing and you know how old T-59 are ?

These western tanks look good when they operate in that part of the world but when it comes to hot desert conditions in Pakistan and India they either miserably fail or there performance goes down the drain

 

[Jigs]

who told you this ?

at present the Al khalid has a 650Mm turret without ERA.
And Al khalid II will use a 1500HP engine.re designed turret.weight will be around 55-60tons.

Al khalid at present is a king of desert.remember when indians tested the t-90 is thar desert of rajistan the t-90 failed.

Al khalid II will be rolled out after few years..and personally i think it will be comparable to leopard 2 and way better then atlay.atlay is turkey first tank.so it will need some time to mature..while Al khalid is enough mature now..

even at present the Al khalid I is comparable to most of modern tanks

There is really not enough info out for us to make any assumptions on where both these MBTs stand at this point.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

.remember when indians tested the t-90 is thar desert of rajistan the t-90 failed.

It seems to be capable in the desert.

 

[Jigs]

Are you drunk? do you know what are you saying?

Last time the Abrams were tested by Pakistan in Deserts of Pakistan Abrams failed against Chinese T-59 tanks when it came to firing and you know how old T-59 are ?

These western tanks look good when they operate in that part of the world but when it comes to hot desert conditions in Pakistan and India they either miserably fail or there performance goes down the drain

Is there something special about the Pakistani Desert that isn't found in Iraqi desert ? Seeing as the Abrams completely humiliated the T-72s Iraq had. This wasn't any test but real MBT combat.

 

[Mani2020]

Is there something special about the Pakistani Desert that isn't found in Iraqi desert ? Seeing as the Abrams completely humiliated the T-72s Iraq had. This wasn't any test but real MBT combat.

we don't even know the condition of T-72 and the type of ammunition they used against Abrams also the iraqi tanks were outnumbered .it was evident that the iraqi army was ill-prepared for that you can't blame the technology .

I can prove my words by posting the video that contains Pakistan army official claiming that Abrams performance was not good in deserts of Pakistan

 

[satishkumarcsc]

Iraqis used lots of their tanks as dug in artillery...they never used the T 72s in the way they must be used. Russian tanks are used for Hit-and-run. unlike staying put and fighting...Being used as a dug in artillery seriously limited one of theiir main advantage that is mobility.

 

[farhan_9909]

Al khalid is old now..and AL khalid I is introduced into service last year.
following are the upgrades made in the Al khalid I

difference between Al khalid and Al khalid I AK-1 does have active protection system imported from Ukraine and integrated in HIT and it is now a standard fit on AK-1 by the name of VARTA (guards). Other changes are...

Sagem Matis TI (3rd Gen)

Turret control all electric instead of semi-electric previously

Increased ammunition to 49 rounds (main gun)

new ballistic computer with new sensors

Second Generation IBMS (indigenous)

Indigenous ERA along with composite armor (750 mm turret thickness without ERA) more than 1100 mm with ERA

Main gun improved based on Ukrainian KBA 125 series previously, now completely modified and built in HIT facility with increased accuracy, barrel life and range.

Improved suspension with hydraulic assistance more than previous version.

Much higher automation and protection for crew, new NBC developed indigenously, tracks, thicker side skirts. Better cooling for crew comfort, also a new DU shell developed based on French and Korean shells with higher penetrations at POF.

Improved autoloader with electric control.

I would say its at least twice as lethal as the previous AK.

Regards

 

[farhan_9909]

It seems to be capable in the desert.

YouTube - T-90 Bhishma Indian Army

well it was a news that arjun outnumbered the t-90 in desert.

so in desert t-90s are nt as capable as the Al khalid or the arjuns

 

[Jigs]

we don't even know the condition of T-72 and the type of ammunition they used against Abrams also the iraqi tanks were outnumbered .it was evident that the iraqi army was ill-prepared for that you can't blame the technology .

I can prove my words by posting the video that contains Pakistan army official claiming that Abrams performance was not good in deserts of Pakistan

Well the rounds they used were conventional KE rounds some where DU. Most tanks never even fired any off as they were destroyed before they could even sight the Abrams in. The ones that did fire something off never knocked the Abrams out and in return were destroyed. Also there were instances where T-72s outnumbered the Abrams tanks.

I was not trying to debate the proof that the Abrams performance was lacking in a hot desert climate but that the Abrams still dominated T72s easily in that enviroment. So i doubt its performance was very subject or else the U.S. would have addressed it along with Egypt which uses the export version.

 

[farhan_9909]

There is really not enough info out for us to make any assumptions on where both these MBTs stand at this point.

Looking at the theoratical specs of atlay and then al khalid II.they both will be similer..

Both will use 1500HP engine,both will be 60 tons.

bt al khalid II will enter service in the coming 5 years and ther is no prototype of atlay as of now..i think testing new tank and then introducing it into service will take 1 decade.

 

[Jigs]

Iraqis used lots of their tanks as dug in artillery...they never used the T 72s in the way they must be used. Russian tanks are used for Hit-and-run. unlike staying put and fighting...Being used as a dug in artillery seriously limited one of theiir main advantage that is mobility.

This was due to their experience with Iran where this idea worked quite well. So commanders tried to apply the same thing with the Abrams. Even if they did though the FCS the abrams uses is way ahead of what the T72 had. I doubt the T-72 had effective round hits on the move. Especially with that large gun.

 

[Jigs]

Looking at the theoratical specs of atlay and then al khalid II.they both will be similer..

Both will use 1500HP engine,both will be 60 tons.

bt al khalid II will enter service in the coming 5 years and ther is no prototype of atlay as of now..i think testing new tank and then introducing it into service will take 1 decade.

Operational prototype is set for 2012 so next year.Most likely full scale production will start in 2013 inline with the T-129 helicopter also coming in to the army. Remember we spent 540 million dollars just for technology transfer of the K-2 which also includes developmental input from Hyundai Rotem as they will be a subcontractor to Otokar.