Should pakistan increase the number of troops

[iby32]

I think if Pakistan wants to increase its numbers they should now focus on creating more specialized troops and give them force multiplier weapons and systems that will allow smaller units to take on larger forces. Like
Talwar e Pakistan said, Pakistan cannot match India numerically, but creating new but specialized units with will give them a chance to absorb the strike and repel it.

We know we cant match but increasing number with modren technology is must. In case of defensive doctrine we have to bare all collateral damages and huge losses in form of population as well as in troops as most of our cities lie next to border so its better to have more offensive punch to take war on enemy territory to avoid collateral damage and then enemy will know that we have capabilties to cary war deep in thier territory so they will think to go on any misadventoure.

I am not making it scary for you. Have a look at fatalities.
View attachment 351566

coming to Baluchistan now.

Strength of Regular Baluchistan Police: 26,965

The ATF(Anti Terrorist Force) of Police is trained in 2016 (freshly trained) by two Army units, 48 FF and 6 AK Regiments. There have been 600 Police trained as ATF since 2013.

There are 100 each troops of Police and Baluchistan Constabulary under going ATF training with FC in 2016.

http://www.balochistanpolice.gov.pk/att.php

Strength of Baluchistan Constabulary: 8,362

The Baluchistan Constabulary is the strength of an oversized Army Infantry Brigade, standing at 8,000+ men. It has 30 APC and one aircraft for use against miscreants. An Army Infantry Brigade doesnt even have APC's unless its mechanised or armoured. So Baluchistan Constabulary is actually equipped much better in this regard atleast and can travel in these armoured personnel carriers rather than open pickups/jeeps in which FC and Army travels.

There have been 600 Baluchistan Constabulary troops trained by Army as ATF.


Strength of Baluchistan Levies: 13,000

This force is present for low intensity areas known as B-areas for providing law and order. These troops also man check points and posts.

In my opinion, this force of 13,000 troops is being wasted as its under equipped and considered as the cheapest available LEA. Just for info, an army division is composed of 13,000+ troops. This force can be made quite potent and lethal if trained and equipped properly.

Anti Narcotics Force

This force is present to deal with drugs and narcotics smuggling. This force has been made solely for the purpose of assisting other LEA's so especially the burden on Police is reduced. I dont have its strength and numbers but it was stated above in some post that FC was also required to fight and deal with drug/narcotics smuggling. This force has the helicopters, raid squads, dogs, equipment and is armed to the teeth to fight narcotics and drugs trade.



Special security Division (CPEC Security Force) strength 15,000

This force is raised just to protect CPEC routes. This is again the strength of an army infantry Division, and is comprised 9 battalions and 6 civil armed wings. I know that only a part of this force will be deployed in Balchistan but again its to reduce burden on FC, Police and LEA's. Even if 2 battalions are deployed along routes in every province, thats roughly 1500 troops per province. The task of providing security in the areas protected by SSD will tantamount to lesser deployment of LEA in those areas and these troops can be used to bolster any other troubled sector

Now if Government of Pakistan still wants to increase troops.

NATIONAL GUARD:

Mujahid Force strength 60,000

Organized in battalions, some with light air defence capability. Some units are deployed in Azad Kashmir and few Units are serving in cantonment areas as well. These can be made excellent QRF units along with FC. They are a good defensive force against Regular Infantry and are trained to withstand slaughtering enemy MG and heavy weapons fire. They are given defence of an area in case of war and can break down attack after attack of enemy regular infantry forces. They are trained by Army infantry battalions.

In peacetime, they serve in some sensitive AK areas and as security forces in cantts. They can easily form QRF when numbers need to increased and can also assist FC in raiding attacks on terrorist hideouts.

Janbaz Force Strength 100,000

The members of janbaz force are intended to serve close to their home districts. This is also an infantry styled force with excellent defensive capability in war time. The members of this force are deployed in their local areas as they know the terrain, weather and routes very well. In case India captures their area and regular forces cannot reach in time, they are expected to trouble the enemy constantly.

Being locals of their areas, they are a worthy asset to Police and FC, if heavy firepower and numbers are required by an LEA. They are trained by Army infantry battalions.


If you see now, Pakistan has raised different kinds of forces just to help police(LEA's) and maintain internal security while also keeping in mind a war time reserve force in case India tries grabs hold of Pakistani territory.

How many more forces and more troops do you need.

All you need is management.

As you mentiond mujahid force and janbaz force combined numbers upto 160,000.00 and they have training. Cant we train them and equip with tanks and apc it will increas number above 700k for regular troops and will lessen the burden on troops and increase our offensive punch. Incase of a war then we dont have divert our forces to run from one point to another point like we had to do in 1965 to divert forces from chanb to defence of lahore n from khem karan to sialkot and that haltrd our offensive

 

[CHACHA"G"]

Hello all
This is my favourite topic and also need of the hour, What I have in mind is very basic and extremely potent , so let me start .
1, One new corp , a "mountain" corp , Yes , we need to add one more corp for LOC , minimum 3 Div all eqm will be for mountain war , Training mainly like LCB standard minimum , This corp will not also add numbers but it also help to counter 700000 Indian Troops in the Kashmir Valley.
2, Please upgrade the current corps status and there eqm , If u all look at Lahore corp , They have 2 Inf Div , Y not upgrade them to Mechanized Inf Divs , with IFVs , APCs and Tank hunting systems with Fire Sport Vehicles.
This will bring Quality and every other edge , U name the advantage it will be there , and also save Us to increase the seize of army . We can do the same with other Corps too.
In short upgrade the Army first , Instead Increasing the numbers.
3, On Afghan side and Iran side and WoT , Please First , Fence the Border , Trench It, and Mine It, Its costly and time talking but will be very effective in long run.
With the border secure Please increase the FC in Both side (KPK, Baluchistan ) , Upgrade FC training and eqm , Give them light Tanks , Helis and other eqm.
4, We also need very strong Heli Force with , UAVs . We need CH3 , 4 , 5 or other types of drones mainly CH5 type and very good numbers , they can petrol the border 24/7 with heavy payload .
Add drones like 100s of them let them do the risky jobs.
Thank u all

 

[SSGcommandoPAK]

How much Regular army do we have as of 2016 ? We need a 700,000 regular army not more than that , we should upgrade police , fc ,also make more LCB and QRFs etc . Western border should be mined , dugged, so that attacks on our military from Afghan side decreases .

 

[iby32]

Hello all
This is my favourite topic and also need of the hour, What I have in mind is very basic and extremely potent , so let me start .
1, One new corp , a "mountain" corp , Yes , we need to add one more corp for LOC , minimum 3 Div all eqm will be for mountain war , Training mainly like LCB standard minimum , This corp will not also add numbers but it also help to counter 700000 Indian Troops in the Kashmir Valley.
2, Please upgrade the current corps status and there eqm , If u all look at Lahore corp , They have 2 Inf Div , Y not upgrade them to Mechanized Inf Divs , with IFVs , APCs and Tank hunting systems with Fire Sport Vehicles.
This will bring Quality and every other edge , U name the advantage it will be there , and also save Us to increase the seize of army . We can do the same with other Corps too.
In short upgrade the Army first , Instead Increasing the numbers.
3, On Afghan side and Iran side and WoT , Please First , Fence the Border , Trench It, and Mine It, Its costly and time talking but will be very effective in long run.
With the border secure Please increase the FC in Both side (KPK, Baluchistan ) , Upgrade FC training and eqm , Give them light Tanks , Helis and other eqm.
4, We also need very strong Heli Force with , UAVs . We need CH3 , 4 , 5 or other types of drones mainly CH5 type and very good numbers , they can petrol the border 24/7 with heavy payload .
Add drones like 100s of them let them do the risky jobs.
Thank u all

Yes we do need creatva mountain warfare corps with 3 div and we need atleast one more strike corps so we dont have to divert our forces from offensive corps to holding corps or we dont have shift defensive forces to support strike force and leave gaps in our deffences

 

[Saleem]

I thunk Pakistna Army should be disbanded and its security should be outsourced to the great bharati army.....after all the great finance minister has already out up the motorways as collateral to nawaz's friend modi.....the hinopak trucks are 25% owned by mahindra motors....PIA< PS, railways etc all sold off or bartered........pakistanis should elarn the bandar mar er bandematram and learn ....after all the did vote in succession asif the z man and nawaz the ganja man into power....

 

[Ayaz Mahmood]

Double the troops
There is no other solution except to conquer Kashmir and Delhi to standout in the world.
Though it is also more important to develop education, economy and foreign affairs but we need to have another result oriented war to make the difference.
I have full conviction Pakistan Army is still capable enough to respond India in an effective manner, InshaAllah.

 

[JPMM]

Yes we do need creatva mountain warfare corps with 3 div and we need atleast one more strike corps so we dont have to divert our forces from offensive corps to holding corps or we dont have shift defensive forces to support strike force and leave gaps in our deffences

There are allready rumors that FCNA its an Army Corps formation (not under Xth Holding Corps) and that its original 4 Independent Mountain Brigades were expanded to form 2 Mountain Infantry Divisions, the Corps reserve being an SSG formation an possibly an extra Mountain Brigade.

As for extra Strike Corps, in my opinion its a waste of men and resources. The way is to upgrade the existing Holding Corps with mechanized formations so they can change from any status they want.

But I think that Pak Army GHQ and its Generals are very competent and they are allready doing this for a long time. The real shape of the Pak Army ORBAT must be very diferente naw than wat the Internet shows!

It makes a lot of sence using "Force Multipliers" in this region. Armed UAVs, attack Helicopters, SAM umbrela, laser guided artillery munitions, combined with game changers of 1999 NVGs, Special Forces, Snipers and classical heavy fortified positions, long range artillery.

This can make a bobytrap for IA and IAF, making them diverge large resources to Kashmir to the point they with be over streached on the rest of the Eastern Front (some Indian Media say there are allready 700.000 men in Jammu-Kashmir in peacetime)

 

[IHK_PK]

Pakistan should increase an airborne indipendent assault division and or atleast create a new airborne indipendent assault brigade keeping in view the KARGIL/ FATA/SAWAT campaigns.

 

[niaz]

Let us be honest, any standing land army of about 20 Infantry Divs and a couple of armoured Divs is not small. Therefore just increasing numbers would not significantly improve fighting capability unless the new recruits are well equipped and fully trained.

Airforce and Navy are equally important elements for the country’s security. PAF has sufficient manpower, what is needed is more advance aircraft and state of the art anti-aircraft defence equipment. Navy is the only branch where there is a genuine need for more men as well as more fighting ships.

But can we afford it? Let us not forget that raising just one additional division does not only mean 15,000 additional fighting men. In addition to the salaries, it also involves providing living quarters, medical and educational facilities for the men and their families and looking after veteran’s welfare when they get out of the army.

In my humble opinion, better training, better equipment, improving mobility (more helos) and improving the quality of manpower (better educated and fitter) would provide more BANG FOR THE BUCK.

No doubt quantity has a quality of its own; instead of larger standing army, why not a large ready reserve force? Currently we have reserve of about 500,000 but how many of these are ‘battle ready’? On general mobilization, we would be lucky to find 50 to 75,000 fighting fit soldiers from the reserve.

Therefore a scheme of regular, say once a year, medical examination & annual 2-weeks re-fresher courses are needed to enable Pakistan army to have a battle ready pool of additional 10 divisions (about 150,000 soldiers) when the country is put on war footing; would be less costly but almost as effective. I would think that a well-equipped and well trained 30 Div. infantry force with a couple of Armoured Divs should be sufficient to defend the country in case of war.

 

[Hamza913]

Currently, I thought it was over 600k? But to my knowledge, the army is planning on increasing the size to 700k.

It's between 600-700k.

 

[CriticalThought]

Establish firing ranges where the general public can go and pay to learn how to shoot. People should be encouraged to buy and keep their weapons at the range. This is inspired by the American gun rights model but conveniently avoids the dangers of mass shootings. It also creates economic incentives and if the gun purchase is allowed from international sources, it will give incentive to POF to compete with international manufacturers on price and quality.

As far as the eastern border is concerned, raising the number of troops would be akin to falling straight into the trap India is laying for us: it wants to increase the price of security for us. The answer isn't to try and protect thousands of kms of difficult terrain. The answer is an open season of covert operations against the Afghan army. Their casualties need to be in tens of thousands - more attrition than they can replace. The only long term solution is a friendly and stable Taliban rule along our border. Absolutely no compromises can be made in this regard.

 

[Qutb-ud-din Aybak]

i think we should make a new second army of guerillas equipped with latest weapons. pakistan army is already enough to meet indian challenge as indian army too cannot leave chinese border unguarded.
the days of conventional wars are very much gone. we need specially trained forces who can do taliban style war inside enemy territory or inside territory invaded by enemy. 100k of such soldiers can easily fight 500k attackers as can be seen from recent conflicts the guirella and ambush making organizations cannot be defeated easily.
the strategy of army under hazrat khalid bin waleed was also same. they would weaken their enemies before even reaching the war zones. they would disrupt their supplies and hit on the morale of enemies soldiers.

 

[Ea Returns]

There is indeed a requirement to increase the frontier corps and the govt is over looking an increase ( from 80,000 to 160-240000)

I doubt that, pushing insurgents into India would continue to be a cost effective solution. Where one regiment would cost around 180-200 crores annual, may not kill a single enemy soldier through it's life cycle... But for the same amount of money, 1000s of Fidayeen would be ready to take up the job. On top of that, no liability clause... just issue statements like "non-state actors".. as easy as it gets.

 

[CHACHA"G"]

Let us be honest, any standing land army of about 20 Infantry Divs and a couple of armoured Divs is not small. Therefore just increasing numbers would not significantly improve fighting capability unless the new recruits are well equipped and fully trained.

Airforce and Navy are equally important elements for the country’s security. PAF has sufficient manpower, what is needed is more advance aircraft and state of the art anti-aircraft defence equipment. Navy is the only branch where there is a genuine need for more men as well as more fighting ships.

But can we afford it? Let us not forget that raising just one additional division does not only mean 15,000 additional fighting men. In addition to the salaries, it also involves providing living quarters, medical and educational facilities for the men and their families and looking after veteran’s welfare when they get out of the army.

In my humble opinion, better training, better equipment, improving mobility (more helos) and improving the quality of manpower (better educated and fitter) would provide more BANG FOR THE BUCK.

No doubt quantity has a quality of its own; instead of larger standing army, why not a large ready reserve force? Currently we have reserve of about 500,000 but how many of these are ‘battle ready’? On general mobilization, we would be lucky to find 50 to 75,000 fighting fit soldiers from the reserve.

Therefore a scheme of regular, say once a year, medical examination & annual 2-weeks fresher courses are needed to enable Pakistan army to have a battle ready pool of additional 10 divisions (about 150,000 soldiers) when the country is put on war footing; would be less costly but almost as effective. I would think that a well-equipped and well trained 30 Div. infantry force with a couple of Armoured Divs should be sufficient to defend the country in case of war.

With all respect , I agree most of your post , infect some of this is, what I also said in my previous post . But I differ with u on Mountain Corps Issue , For me and according to new geopolitical Env, and IA mountain Corps in IOK , and almost 700000 troops we need our own Mountain Corps , with great training and latest Eqm for mountain War,
Rest I agree sir we need to upgrade our Corps (holding + Defending ) like Lahore and Gujaranwala , we can upgrade them to latest Mechanized Div Corps with latest IFVs , AFVs, APCs, ATGMS, and Air Defence systems, This upgrade will almost kill any cold or hot strike in Punjab and also in AJK (with one new Mountain Corps) and this will also free our main Strike Corps (take burden away from them ).
Upgrading them will cost us money and time , but surly this will be cheaper then to have one or two new corps and also in new modern wars we need to and have to upgrade them , its better and lethal option.
We also need to increase Pakistan Rangers Seize , there EQM and Training (best reserve ) , we can add 50000 more there .

 

[iby32]

Let us be honest, any standing land army of about 20 Infantry Divs and a couple of armoured Divs is not small. Therefore just increasing numbers would not significantly improve fighting capability unless the new recruits are well equipped and fully trained.

Airforce and Navy are equally important elements for the country’s security. PAF has sufficient manpower, what is needed is more advance aircraft and state of the art anti-aircraft defence equipment. Navy is the only branch where there is a genuine need for more men as well as more fighting ships.

But can we afford it? Let us not forget that raising just one additional division does not only mean 15,000 additional fighting men. In addition to the salaries, it also involves providing living quarters, medical and educational facilities for the men and their families and looking after veteran’s welfare when they get out of the army.

In my humble opinion, better training, better equipment, improving mobility (more helos) and improving the quality of manpower (better educated and fitter) would provide more BANG FOR THE BUCK.

No doubt quantity has a quality of its own; instead of larger standing army, why not a large ready reserve force? Currently we have reserve of about 500,000 but how many of these are ‘battle ready’? On general mobilization, we would be lucky to find 50 to 75,000 fighting fit soldiers from the reserve.

Therefore a scheme of regular, say once a year, medical examination & annual 2-weeks fresher courses are needed to enable Pakistan army to have a battle ready pool of additional 10 divisions (about 150,000 soldiers) when the country is put on war footing; would be less costly but almost as effective. I would think that a well-equipped and well trained 30 Div. infantry force with a couple of Armoured Divs should be sufficient to defend the country in case of war.

As currently we hav 2 armoured divisions and 20 infantry divisions and as u sed we need 30 infanty divisions so to raise 10 more division we need 150k to 200k men.
And as u said waist of resources to raise a strike corp it is not in my point of view as this will alow us to cary war in enemy territory. It will be expensive to raise a strike corp as i think it should be like following
1 armoured division
2 mechanised divisions
1 infantry brigade
1 artillary brigade
1 airdefence brigade
Air cover should be provide by air force and army aviation hellicopters it is very expensive though

We only have 550000 regulars