Should Pakistan give up on Afghanistan?

[BATMAN]

This one is very funny. I cant stop laughing. Rehman Malik who is not even welcome at GHQ and he is ordering state sponsored target killing ? This is not credible.

What is the explanation to what is happening to Pakistan since Zardari took over?
I mean both on diplomatic front and in internal affaisrs.

Why is Rehman Malik was never sacked for ever detoritaing security situatiuon and so far hundreds of teachers, professors, police officers, civil officers, politicians, students had been target killed in Quetta and Karachi... hell not even the securoity cheif of BB a key witness of BB's murder was shot dead?

Now what security promise has rehman malik ever gave to Pakistanis or what explanation had we heard from him? I know his popular demand to put ISI under his control but why is it so important for him to take charge of ISI?

Zardari hate this nation to the limit that he don't want to come to any press conference and present his performance.
I know once he made a press conference in Sindh where he promoted Pakistan khapay but why Pakistan Khapay. our enimies should Khapay.

 

[T-Faz]

If you can come to a negotiated settlement with china ( Aksai Chin Area is part of J & K which was under the illegal occupation
of pak and given away to china - that's another thread anyway).
You have to come to a negotiated settlement with Afghanistan and India aswell, that's the only way.

Pakistan's Ex-ISI chief would not agree to that statement and he so proudly goes around the media claiming to be be their mentors and Friends.

Another ISI agent who was killed recently, was also a trainer to the taliban.

Aksai chin was given to them in return for parts of the Himalayas. Mutually and respectably we solved our issues. The other countries in question do not want to accept the boudaries as they ought to be.

These so called mentors and trainers you are referring to trained the Mujahideen, not the Taliban. Atleast get your facts right, the mujahideen were a multi-nation effort. Taliban was formed from parts of Mujahideen and the local students in Afghanistan who had never even been to Pakistan.

 

[BATMAN]

Its not so simple as that - There was never any agreement on the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan to accept durand line as international border.

how do you separate two states, than?
Who is representing Afghanistan's case?
Why never in past we had such issues?
Such useless demands will keep Afghanistan in turmoil and help evil planners to exploit conflicts and keep earning US dollars from the blood of Afghans.
If there was no Pakistan.. there would have been no Afghanistan and Russinas would have been still ruling all of USSR, incl. once Afghanistan.

 

[Dr.Evil]

Aksai chin was given to them in return for parts of the Himalayas. Mutually and respectably we solved our issues. The other countries in question do not want to accept the boudaries as they ought to be.

These so called mentors and trainers you are referring to trained the Mujahideen, not the Taliban. Atleast get your facts right, the mujahideen were a multi-nation effort. Taliban was formed from parts of Mujahideen and the local students in Afghanistan who had never even been to Pakistan.

In the first place Aksai chin was never pakistan's to give away to China ( Pakistan claims kashmir is a disputed territory and not part of Pakistan )

On the Point of Mujahideen - Taliban were part of the so called Mujahideen, there are well document reports about the training provided in the tribal areas of pak to those Talibans.

Hamid gul him self accepts the role played by Pak army / ISI and Pak govt in raising the Taliban.

I will send you the link of that once I find bit more of time.

 

[M8R]

I don't know why we feel so scared of Afghanistan being controlled by India - Let them do whatever they want - We should form an alliance with America root out the Taliban and if later on Afghanistan territory is used against us we can bomb it just as Turkey Bombs Northern Iraq and we can always put a blockade on Afghanistan from our side which would literally cripple Afghanistan - so i don't see fear.Afghanistan is like a little baby even if backed by India it cannot do much harm to Pakistan.

 

[T-Faz]

In the first place Aksai chin was never pakistan's to give away to China ( Pakistan claims kashmir is a disputed territory and not part of Pakistan )

On the Point of Mujahideen - Taliban were part of the so called Mujahideen, there are well document reports about the training provided in the tribal areas of pak to those Talibans.

Hamid gul him self accepts the role played by Pak army / ISI and Pak govt in raising the Taliban.

I will send you the link of that once I find bit more of time.

Aksai chin was given away because we had control over it and it did not belong to us.

Hamid Gul says a lot of things, he says 911 was an inside job. You should believe that too if you believe in this. No point in selective agreement. Send me links to whatever that you may have, I look forward to debating them with you.

 

[Old School]

I know once he made a press conference in Sindh where he promoted Pakistan khapay but why Pakistan Khapay. our enimies should Khapay.

Do you mean the following ?



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[M8R]

Batman Pakistan khapay means Pakistan Zindabad in Sindhi!!

 

[oct605032048]

Aksai Chin means China's white stone land, how could China's white stone land become indians' territory?

Let's back to Afghanistan. Pakistanis should have confidence with yourselves.
Afghanistan is an inland country and Pakistan holds their routes to the Indian Ocean and the world. It is impossible for India control Afghanistan over Pakistan.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Its not so simple as that - There was never any agreement on the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan to accept durand line as international border.

The Durand agreement was and is the agreement on the borders, and it has no expiration date. Under international law the agreement transfers to the successor States, in this case Pakistan.

Afghanistan has had 60 years in which to raise this issue in any international forum it wishes, such as the UN, to argue that the agreement and borders are invalid, yet it hasn't. That pretty much shows that even the Afghans know how weak their case is.

The border is internationally recognized, and Pakistan is under no obligation to 'come to a negotiated settlement' on it - otherwise any country could simply decide to start challenging established and internationally recognized borders just because they felt like it. There must be some legal justification for the Afghan position, and they can establish that through the UN or other avenue. Till then, Afghanistan is taking a position that is illegal and hostile to Pakistan, and the Afghan Government and parliament must come clean on the issue and unilaterally declare that it respects Pakistan's territorial integrity and sovereignty.

Otherwise the GoA is responsible for everything that Pakistan must do to safeguard its security, territorial integrity and national interests.

 

[M8R]

Absolutely - I don't know Afghanistan don't want to respect Durand Line - It's not like it is going to change.Pakistan is too strong now.If Afghanistan was US and Pakistan was Afghanistan then yea, i'd say they have good chances but right now it is more of a headache for us then anything.

 

[Gin ka Pakistan]

Its not so simple as that - There was never any agreement on the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan to accept durand line as international border.

There is no agreement between Indian and Bangladesh , Indian and China, India and Pakistan . India should do boarder agreement with all these three nation as they have fought wars with them on boarder issues , well with Bangladesh no war but boarder firings do happen and the line do get changed.

 

[Sparten80]

The events and future of Pakistan and Afghanistan are intertwined, if you havent learned this by now, your bound to make the same mistake again.

The border between the two countries is inseperable. People move freely between them and the terrain is next to imposible to patrol let alone control completely. There so much intermarriage across this border, that people travel back and forth on a daily basis. With the arrival of some 5 million Afghans to Pakistan, a large number of them have intermarried into Pakistan with people of all of Pakistan's province. If history is any indicator, the two regions (Pakistan and Afghanistan) are always connected, turned into one in some form or another.

We should be building bridges, roads, infrastructure, railways to link and integrate Afghanitan's eastern and southern regions with Pakistan. Pakistan is a country soon to cross the 200 million mark in population, their future lies with us. The investments we are doing in Afghanistan are also in our interest, india's role and attempts to gain influence in afghanistan are short term acts to cause chaos and exploit poor Afghans to commit terrorism both on their own people and the people of Pakistan will not last long.

There will never be peace with india, as long as Kashmir is forcibly occupied by them and a plebiscite is not held. That is our principal stance.

If anything, a wall needs to built on our eastern borders, and there should not be any trade, commerce at all until the Kashmir issue is resolved. This should be a principal stand.

In the end of the day, Pakistan and Afghanistan are brothers, and we must realize that events in either country affect the other. Our future lies together, an astute student of history would know that, so please dont limit yourself and think in tunnel vision. Furthermore, Afghans stability and economy will directly increase Pakistan's through which nearly 80% of its commerce travel through (despite attempts and projects by india to build roads to divert this trade)

Afghanistan just came out of 30 year of war, its government is shaky, infiltrated and subverted by elements encouraging hatred against Afghanistan's neighboors, ironically countries with which its future lies with and can only progress with. The irony, is the Pashtunistan issue itself is a NO Brainer, The Persian/Dari dominated beauracracy itself would never allow it. Infact they where the first ones to balk and kill the Pashtunistan movement on its own. Furthermore, Pashtuns themselves, while they may talk about it, there is no basis for such a nation nor is their any history of a Pashtun-only nation, Pashtuns have always lived in a multicultural nation alongside Tajiks, Panjabi's and Baloch etc... And if you understand the Pashtun psyche, can you even imagine a Pashtun only nation... lol

Pakistan and Afghanistan, despite all the propoganda, are brothers, and the people are like family. Our destiny and future is one, to think otherwise will result in failure. Pakistan's presence and investment in Afghanistan is akin to Pakistan investing into its future, we must do it..!

 

[kidwaibhai]

Cutting Afghanistan off will not be of any benefit to Pakistan. Isolation is never an answer to anything. Recently i see that things are going Pakistan's way in Afghanistan as Gen Pasha is going to be in Kabul on Monday. We should also have no problems with India opperating in Afghanistan as long it is not using Afghan soil to create problems for Pakistan. I think the best way to for Afghanistan and Pakistan to get along is through the expansion of trade. this neccessates people to people contacts which will ease tensions between the populous of both countries

 

[Old School]

First and foremost , Pakistan should never have involved in Afghanistan in 1976. What did we achieve by doing it ? We have a burden of millions of refugees which changed our social structure. We have today terrorism on the streets .The economy is in limbo. Soviets at least minimized their losses by cutting and running from Afghanistan while accepting their mistakes but we continued with the obsession of so called Strategic depth. Afghanistan has become a strategic blunder of us instead. What did we achieve so far ?