Should Arabic be replaced with Urdu for Mosque sermons in Pakistan ??

[shuntmaster]

The Mode of Namaz and all that is recited in it cannot be changed and has to be in Arabic,otherwise every country will be reciting it's own translation and mode and still call it Namaz,just like Christians who read translations,but call it Bible.

Whats wrong with translation into language which people understand?

 

[dexter]

Absolutely not agreed even urdu is my mother tongue
Arabic is a very beautiful langauge and every muslim should try to learn atleast some arabic

 

[shuntmaster]

We have no interest in "urdu", in our area mosques have punjabi sermons/speech on Friday which we enjoy a lot.

What percentage of Pakistani population can understand Arabic? How many are fluent (read/write) in that language?

 

[nana41]

Whats wrong with translation into language which people understand?

Nothing..but then you will not say that you read Quraan,but Translation of Quraan.Thats why when ,in Namaz,you recite Surah Fateha in Arabic you know what does it mean,because you learnt its meanings.But if you start reciting Namaz, Quraan or Darood in local languages ,imagine the dangers of wrong or different translations.Like Bible is not in the language it was revealed ,but its the translations in so many different languages known as Bible.It is the memorization of Quraan and Salat that it is still in its original /Real fom in Arabic.Sermon(Address) should be said in the local language,not in Arabic after the recitation of appropriate aiya or surah and its translation.

 

[nana41]

Absolutely not agreed even urdu is my mother tongue
Arabic is a very beautiful langauge and every muslim should try to learn atleast some arabic

You dont have to "learn" Arabic as a Language.Learn to read Arabic with its translation in your mother language or the language you understand is enough.However learning its Tafseer and Mafhoom is a job for a Alim to explain, it's not every body's cup of tea,as they say.

 

[Cent4]

I don't understand what the fuss is all about, the main point of friday prayer is to make sure everyone in the congression learns something about religion and the pre khutba is delievered in the local language everywhere. Here in London the mosque that i go to gives its sermon in english and urdu.
But the main khutba is given in arabic everywhere whose meaning everyone should know like they should know what they recite in prayers, and shouldnt be changed. Its every muslim responsibility to understand the religion in the language that it was given to us in.

whats next offering prayers in urdu, punjabi, sindhi, english etc

 

[flameboard]

There used to be time when a lot of Church service was done in Latin. However, that just distanced the people. People should learn Arabic on their own time. People usually take the lazier route. No one's going to learn Arabic' they'll just show up and leave without understanding a thing.

I do think people should try to learn Arabic but it's a bit impractical, for everything to be converted to Arabic when the intended audience doesn't understand it.

 

[shuntmaster]

There used to be time when a lot of Church service was done in Latin. However, that just distanced the people. People should learn Arabic on their own time. People usually take the lazier route. No one's going to learn Arabic' they'll just show up and leave without understanding a thing.

I do think people should try to learn Arabic but it's a bit impractical, for everything to be converted to Arabic when the intended audience doesn't understand it.

Some people argue that Islam is an instrument for Arab imperialism.

 

[SHAMK9]

What percentage of Pakistani population can understand Arabic? How many are fluent (read/write) in that language?

Impossible to find a percentage but all I can say is, many (including me) read quran without translation. So basically we are reading a different language without knowing the meaning of it.

 

[shuntmaster]

Impossible to find a percentage but all I can say is, many (including me) read quran without translation. So basically we are reading a different language without knowing the meaning of it.

What is the purpose of reading a book without understanding what has been written in the book.
Its like me reading a French book, even though I don't know french, but I can read it since French uses the Latin alphabet. It doesn't make any sense..

 

[SHAMK9]

What is the purpose of reading a book without understanding what has been written in the book.
Its like me reading a French book, even though I don't know french, but I can read it since French uses the Latin alphabet. It doesn't make any sense..

Hence the debate of using Urdu instead

But the main khutba is given in arabic everywhere

The awkward part where everyone stares at each other asking for translation

 

[shuntmaster]

Hence the debate of using Urdu instead

Many here would argue that Quran not written in Arabic is not the real Quran.

 

[Finer]

in Canada, some Mosques where sermon is conducted in English to explain the version of Holy Qur'an. So, there is nothing wrong with that. That being said, we should learn Arabic to understand Holy Qur'an in original forum in order to stop the corruption from fake Imam.

 

[RAMPAGE]

Hi All.

99% our society doesn't understand Arabic , they can just read and write but don't understand the language itself , which means that Masjid which has served as not only a place of worship but a place of Islamic social justice (Islamic socialism) , a school , a marriage hall , conflict solving authority , even a command and control HQ for centuries is now fading.

Put it this way , almost all of us do not understand what Imam is saying in the sermon , we just put our head down and keep listening to Arabic which makes no sense or "a practical difference".

A Masjid is supposed to be a place of problem solving not just a place of worship , imams give their sermons in arabic which creates a language barrier and the "khutba" which really is the "heart of the prayer" remains a no brainer just because of the lingual barrier.

Replacing Arabic with Urdu will just do what its meant to , which is creating understanding among the people about social issues , national issues. It will spark a discussion , followed by questions and answers resulting in widespread education and understanding on outstanding national and social issues and given the fact that half of our population is illiterate its even more important for a Masjid to clarify its message in most simplest of terms that everyone could understand those issues.

An environment where imams can clarify Social evils ie theft , Sood , Riba , drugs , murder , divorce , rape , discrimination against women , discrimination against other religions and sects , unfair trade , corruption , tax evasion etc in the common language will educate people specially those who are illiterate and eventually will result in a common understanding of these crimes followed by reduction in such occurrences.

We have seen in Egypt and Tunisia , now in Yemen how Masjid can mobilize public show of force , how it can serve as a binding force , a hospital even a shelter for a night.

Masses got out of the Masajid from Friday prayers and changed the face of their country - Its raw power and it comes from understanding mainly driven by Imams.

In Pakistan we don't enjoy that luxury , our immas walk in and start giving "khutba" in Arabic , which sometimes include our vital national issues , we shake our heads and forget about it just because we can't understand the language and the practice is widespread in hundreds and thousands of Masajid around Pakistan so the effect on our society is visible to a critical eye.

My personal opinion is that Urdu should be the official language for sermons during Jumma and other prayers and it should be upheld by the law.

Please share your opinion -- lets have a serious debate

Regards:

Aeronaut.

Hi where I offer my Jummah prayer, the Imam first delivers the sermon in Urdu and then translates it into arabic. all this takes 25-30 mins and the sermon is always superb.

 

[Dubious]

I am not Indian.

Pakistan up until the end of the 70s was a much more balanced society. Religion has its place. But right now everyone and anyone is using religion to justify their criminal activities.

Well I put it this way: There is religion then there is cult and then there is Jahalat....Pakistan is far from any religion its more of a cultural cult heading towards Jahalat or already passed it!

In Mosques we need lessons on morality, ethics and Pakistani history intertwined with examples from Islam in URDU so people can actually understand.

Well, I am not sure how history will heal anything right now we definitely need ethics and morality...The value of life as well as understanding that what is being practiced is mere stupidity based on pride of some Mullah..

We have been culturally invaded by Taliban and their pathetic viewpoint on the world and what religion should be. It is an infection which must be treated before we become culturally bankrupt.

Take Zarvan as an example. Such a good person at heart and a patriot, but my God is he lost.

1stly, yes I agree with the bolded parts...we are now going towards what religion "should be" according to the view points of men...be they termed Taliban or be they in the form of Westernization...We have people who are running blindly towards both the ends instead of maintaining a balance between modern and culture/ tradition and have deviated from haya/ ethics/ morality...

As for pointing at Zarvan, on this very forum you will find his direct opposites who oppose anything to do with Religion...they see a thread saying Islam they attack it in packs! While Zarvan sees a thread called religion and he goes to defend with his own reasoning (some make sense some are like...) but before pointing a finger one should see 4 pointing back at himself and concentrate on that!

You see in Pakistan this is the trend everyone is quick to point a finger without realizing they are doing the same either in the opposite direction or in another way.

Traditionally ethics and morality used to be thought at home by shear force...Do wrong a slipper comes charging at you, raise your voice or demand something smack your cheek is suddenly red...This was not entirely right meaning beating one without explaining was just a way to get away with needing to teach...

While today's world is the direct opposite...You child is breaking your neighbour's dishes, you look the other way, you child is crying in the mall you buy him the toy to shut him up...Again the chosen option is not to teach the child anything...Both are methods used and both are direct opposite...I believe it is fine to beat a child or at least control the child before they start thinking they are bosses of the world...something along those lines was what David Cameroon had stated after the London riots how kids are not disciplined...and lack of it caused more damage than was necessary!

Imagine in the 21st century during the London riots, collage to uni students were taken into custody for breaking shop windows and for causing other forms of vandalism! Then we have the American 20 yr old going around shooting (Adam Peter Lanza) who was a uni student so not exactly lacking education there (according to wiki) but of course every mad man in the West is called mad no matter what degrees he may have....as long as he killed he is always said to be diagnosed as schizophrenia or some form of psychopathy/ sociopath...while in our society people doing honour killing are not given the same title though I seriously think those who can kill their own blood (and call it some form of honour esp if all their own blood did was "legally" marry someone not of their choice) should automatically be given that title!

in Canada, some Mosques where sermon is conducted in English to explain the version of Holy Qur'an. So, there is nothing wrong with that. That being said, we should learn Arabic to understand Holy Qur'an in original forum in order to stop the corruption from fake Imam.

same goes for UK...I remember that the "uncle" read few verses of the Quran and then gave the historical context + translation in English....nothing wrong with that esp since we had Africans, Arabs, Pakistanis, Bangladeshi, some white converts and Indians in the masjid..

What is the purpose of reading a book without understanding what has been written in the book.
Its like me reading a French book, even though I don't know french, but I can read it since French uses the Latin alphabet. It doesn't make any sense..

Hence why we read the translation or are at least encouraged to find out otherwise seriously speaking there really is no purpose...

Many here would argue that Quran not written in Arabic is not the real Quran.

Quran is in Arabic but you can have the translation...I remember my friend bought a book which looked like a novel but was the entire translation of the Quran....Since she had already read the Arabic part she would read the English part as one gets indulged in a novel but what she did after that was read the Arabic with this English translation next to it so she knows at least where she is heading...I do the same...I may not read the whole Quran in a day or a week or a month but if I even read 1 ayat I read it with translation and a little bit of historical context so I know the significance of the ayat...