Shooting down of Indian MiGs In Kargil

[Pakistani-nationalist]

I can see a lot of burning poor indian souls in this thread

 

[Bang Galore]

Are you saying India didn't ask Amerikan help to stop the war and Americans wanted to stop the war for regional stability?

No one in their right senses wanted the war to continue. However it is reasonable to assume that the respective sides wanted an end in their favour. It was your PM who went to Washington & essentially agreed to do what India wanted. You figure out who did what & who held their nerve.

 

[ares]

Highlighting an obviously bias author didn't answer my question.

U.S. was afraid of nuclear exchange and had no request of India to call for a ceasefire...

Well it is rather presumptuous of you to call him bias, more than that he is not giving his opinion , he is quoting the fact as they happened( as he was eye witness to them.) and the facts can not be biased or unbiased.

India had made it clear from the onset itself, that there would be no ceasefire till the time Pakistani infiltrators were present.

It was Pakistani leadership running from pillar to post trying to find a face saving exit from Kargil.

The Prime Minister then briefed the President on his frantic efforts in the
last month to engage Vajpayee and get a deal that would allow Pakistan to withdraw
with some saving of face. He had flown to China to try to get their help to press
India to agree to a fixed timetable for talks to resolve Kashmir. Sharif’s brief was
confused and vague on many details but he seemed a man possessed with fear of
war.

The Prime Minister told Clinton that he wanted desperately to find a solution that
would allow Pakistan to withdraw with some cover. Without something to point to,
Sharif warned ominously, the fundamentalists in Pakistan would move against him
and this meeting would be his last with Clinton.

 

[EagleEyes]

No one in their right senses wanted the war to continue. However it is reasonable to assume that the respective sides wanted an end in their favour. It was your PM who went to Washington & essentially agreed to do what India wanted. You figure out who did what & who held their nerve.

Pakistan Army didn't want ceasefire. Our phatto PM did. It was India that pressurized Pakistan through U.S. and our PM came right under.

Ceasefire caused Army the primary damage otherwise it was victory all over, whereas India violated the ceasefire by killing the soldiers as they were retreating (shooting in the back).

 

[third eye]

Pakistan Army didn't want ceasefire. Our phatto PM did. It was India that pressurized Pakistan through U.S. and our PM came right under.

Ceasefire caused Army the primary damage otherwise it was victory all over, whereas India violated the ceasefire by killing the soldiers as they were retreating (shooting in the back).

Is there ( should there be) a difference between a nation's PM & the Army ?

 

[SQ8]

Is there ( should there be) a difference between a nation's PM & the Army ?

Yes, that happens all the time. Be it Kargil, 2001 .. Vietnam.. all the time there are disagreements within the military leadership and the civilian leadership. THe difference lies in whether the military accepts the civilians decision regardless or not.

 

[dexter]

Boasting about one picture ? Ever heard of Battle of Boyra ?

Ever heard of this?:

 

[gslv mk3]

Ever heard of this?:

View attachment 38382

Stop boasting about isolated incidents.Gnats did better than 'superior' F 86s

 

[Bang Galore]

Pakistan Army didn't want ceasefire. Our phatto PM did. It was India that pressurized Pakistan through U.S. and our PM came right under.

Ceasefire caused Army the primary damage otherwise it was victory all over, whereas India violated the ceasefire by killing the soldiers as they were retreating (shooting in the back).

That's as sorry an excuse as there can be. Your army didn't want ceasefire? Well, they should have agreed then. Are you suggesting that your army is absolutely under the control of the civilian government? The sorry excuse trotted out stands out for what it is since the PA had no problem taking on Nawaz Sharif when he sacked Musharraf. Are you suggesting that the PA's line in the sand is only related to some sacking of an CoAS but when it came to surrendering a "winning" position, it meekly caved in? How pathetic do you think that sounds?

 

[brahmastra]

Pakistan Army didn't want ceasefire. Our phatto PM did. It was India that pressurized Pakistan through U.S. and our PM came right under.

Ceasefire caused Army the primary damage otherwise it was victory all over, whereas India violated the ceasefire by killing the soldiers as they were retreating (shooting in the back).

Violated ceasefire by killing retreating soldiers?

Your own army disowned them by saying them intruders.
Pakistani Army was not accepting even their own soldiers/intruders dead bodies.

Your own army officers have said on record that it was completely misadventure on army's part and you talk about victory all over.

 

[longewala]

Pakistan Army didn't want ceasefire. ....
Ceasefire caused Army the primary damage otherwise it was victory all over, whereas India violated the ceasefire by killing the soldiers as they were retreating (shooting in the back).

I am confused, which war are you talking about, 1948, 1965, 1971, 1999?
Because the pakistani army was victorious in every single war it fought, and it was only ceasefire which saved the indian army every time as they "shot the retreating pakistani soldiers."

It is also very kind of the pakistany army to leave behind all those burning patton and t-59 tanks, and donate a big chunk of land every time fought a battle, just so that the cowardly indians do not feel too dejected.

 

[Windjammer]

Stop boasting about isolated incidents.Gnats did better than 'superior' F 86s

That image was one of M M Alam's Hunter victim going down in flames,
Here's your famed so called Sabre Slayer in the Gunsights of an F-86.

F/O Nirmal Jit Singh Sekhon's Gnat in the gunsight of F/L Salim Baig Mirza's F-86F.

 

[Munir]

Well in WVR it is important to be small. Gnat was terrific using that advantage. By the time you saw bullets passing your plane you knew there was a Gnat near you. But in the end. We did superb against better quality and bigger quantity. We are one of the few nations that irritated Israeli Airforce. They had to lend some Punjabi sikhs to listen to our communications during Israeli wars. That did not help much either.

 

[Windjammer]

Well in WVR it is important to be small. Gnat was terrific using that advantage. By the time you saw bullets passing your plane you knew there was a Gnat near you. But in the end. We did superb against better quality and bigger quantity. We are one of the few nations that irritated Israeli Airforce. They had to lend some Punjabi sikhs to listen to our communications during Israeli wars. That did not help much either.

Hope you have read Tufail Kaiser's chapter on ''Cheapest Kill''. which incidentally was a Gnat.

 

[Munir]

Hope you have read Tufail Kaiser's chapter on ''Cheapest Kill''. which incidentally was a Gnat.

Faked call to interceptors from ground control? Yeah, I am positively shocked.

btw, where you there in Farnborough when JF17 visited?