Shooting down of Indian MiGs In Kargil

[Harisudan]

Bro,I am not a veteran,I was in my kindergarten classes while Kargil took place. What I posted were the info I learned from reliable and reputed sources.
1.Bombing was done by M2ks,MiG 21s,27s and Jags. But the downed MiG 27 was in a rocket and cannon attack.During the run,the engine flamed out,following which the pilot ejected . Its wasnt a missile kill.
Indian Air Force :: Engine Flame Out!
2. No Idea
3.The MiG 21 of Ajay Ahuja was trying to cover the crashed MiG 27,when he was shot down.
The IAF in the Kargil Operations - 1999

Understood ur background...
Thanks, but the newspapers and TV channels were not always true..Keep that in mind..Even the Bapus don't know what really happens at the front..Hence, pls don't fantasise..Reality is slightly different from the resources u've heard or gone through..

 

[Windjammer]

The Indians will go to any length in an effort as not to let Pakistan take credit, they go as far as ridiculing themselves by claiming the MiG kill was made by a Stinger rather than the Anza. As for claiming that the MiG-27 flamed out due to smoke indigestion from the rockets it fired. Firstly, albeit the Flogger hasn't seen much of battle action, however even during exercises, how many times did it ever suffer such an incident......far fetched but one could expect such a mishap with aircrafts that have low slung intakes but the Mig-27 has side intakes almost parallel with the cockpit besides after a low dive rocket or bomb release, the attacker usually pulls up or breaks and not dive further.
@Oscar @Munir @Aeronaut

 

[SQ8]

The Indians will go to any length in an effort as not to let Pakistan take credit, they go as far as ridiculing themselves by claiming the MiG kill was made by a Stinger rather than the Anza. As for claiming that the MiG-27 flamed out due to smoke indigestion from the rockets it fired. Firstly, albeit the Flogger hasn't seen much of battle action, however even during exercises, how many times did it ever suffer such an incident......far fetched but one could expect such a mishap with aircrafts that have low slung intakes but the Mig-27 has side intakes almost parallel with the cockpit besides after a low dive rocket or bomb release, the attacker usually pulls up or breaks and not dive further.
@Oscar @Munir @Aeronaut

Gun gas ingestion happens on Russian jets from time to time. The account published here as well as that by A.Cdre Tufail is accurate to the reason for the crash. The SAMs we had in Kargil were essentially still MANPADs and had altitude limits. The Indians too were operating in severe environment for their aircraft. Yet, it shows that the presence of these SAMs were enough to force the end of operations by the older IAF aircraft.

Operations by IAF started in earnest on 26 May, a full 16 days after commencement of Pakistani infiltration across the LOC. The salient feature of this initial phase was strafing and rocketing of the intruders’ positions by MiG-21, MiG-23BN and MiG-27. All operations (except air defence) came to a sudden standstill on 28 May, after two IAF fighters and a helicopter were lost – a MiG-21 and a Mi-17 to Pak Army surface-to-air missiles (SAMs), while a MiG-27 went down due to engine trouble caused by gun gas ingestion during high altitude strafing. (Incidentally, the pilot of the MiG-27 Flt Lt Nachiketa, who ejected and was apprehended, had a tête-à-tête with this author during an interesting ‘interrogation’ session.)

The results achieved by the IAF in the first two days were dismal. Serious restraints seem to have been imposed on the freedom of action of IAF fighters in what was basically a search-and-destroy mission. Lt Gen Mehmud’s rant about a ‘Stinger on every peak’ seemed true. It was obvious that the IAF had under-estimated the SAM threat. The mood in Pak Army circles was that of undiluted elation, and the PAF was expected to sit it out while sharing the khakis’ glee.

The IAF immediately went into a reappraisal mode and came out with GPS-assisted high altitude bombing by MiG-21, MiG-23BN and MiG-27 as a makeshift solution. In the meantime, quick modification on the Mirage-2000 for day/night laser bombing kits (Litening pods) was initiated with the help of Israelis. Conventional bombing that started incessantly after a two-day operational hiatus, was aimed at harassment and denial of respite to the infiltrators, with consequent adverse effects on morale. The results of this part of the campaign were largely insignificant, mainly because the target coordinates were not known accurately; the nature of the terrain too, precluded precision. A few cases of fratricide by IAF led it to be even more cautious.

Aeronaut: Kargil Conflict and Pakistan Air Force

 

[Windjammer]

The IAF immediately went into a reappraisal mode and came out with GPS-assisted high altitude bombing by MiG-21, MiG-23BN and MiG-27 as a makeshift solution. In the meantime, quick modification on the Mirage-2000 for day/night laser bombing kits (Litening pods) was initiated with the help of Israelis. Conventional bombing that started incessantly after a two-day operational hiatus, was aimed at harassment and denial of respite to the infiltrators, with consequent adverse effects on morale. The results of this part of the campaign were largely insignificant, mainly because the target coordinates were not known accurately; the nature of the terrain too, precluded precision. A few cases of fratricide by IAF led it to be even more cautious.

On the contrary the Indians go OTT and frivolously claim to decimate troop formations with the use of LGBs.
Albeit, the author states it was gunsmoke ingestion where as Indians say it was due to smoke from rocket release......and you never hear of the IAF fratricide incidents during that period.......fog of war.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Gun gas ingestion happens on Russian jets from time to time. The account published here as well as that by A.Cdre Tufail is accurate to the reason for the crash. The SAMs we had in Kargil were essentially still MANPADs and had altitude limits. The Indians too were operating in severe environment for their aircraft. Yet, it shows that the presence of these SAMs were enough to force the end of operations by the older IAF aircraft.



Aeronaut: Kargil Conflict and Pakistan Air Force

Gun gas ingestion or Engine flame-out caused by Rocket exhaust is more likely to happen at that altitude. The Air-Ground rockets were not even cleared for ops at that altitude. That is precisely why Nachiketa's MiG-27 flamed out and he was unable to re-light. That is precisely when he ejected and his jet crashed. It was not downed by a missile!!!!
That FACT was attested to by A/Cdre Kaiser Tufail (the asli "Aeronaut" of the Internet) who debriefed Nachiketa after he became POW. All this has become a matter of record on the blog by "Aeronaut" Tufail. It was also described at length by A/Cdre Tufail when he visited Delhi later and probably even met Nachiketa again.

Whether this exposition of the FACTS will satisfy assorted 'Wind-Breakers' is of course a matter of conjecture.....
I do not know if even you @Oscar will succeed in that effort!

 

[Windjammer]

Gun gas ingestion or Engine flame-out caused by Rocket exhaust is more likely to happen at that altitude. The Air-Ground rockets were not even cleared for ops at that altitude. That is precisely why Nachiketa's MiG-27 flamed out and he was unable to re-light. That is precisely when he ejected and his jet crashed. It was not downed by a missile!!!!
That FACT was attested to by A/Cdre Kaiser Tufail (the asli "Aeronaut" of the Internet) who debriefed Nachiketa after he became POW. All this has become a matter of record on the blog by "Aeronaut" Tufail. It was also described at length by A/Cdre Tufail when he visited Delhi later and probably even met Nachiketa again.

Whether this exposition of the FACTS will satisfy assorted 'Wind-Breakers' is of course a matter of conjecture.....
I do not know if even you @Oscar will succeed in that effort!

Were you dropped on the head at birth or breaking wind was the first sound you heard that it always remains your mouthpiece .

 

[Capt.Popeye]

@Oscar; since you very correctly and appropriately brought out the fact of "gun gas ingestion" as the real cause of the 'flame-out' that led to the crashing of Flt/Lt. Nachiketa's Miog-27; would you like to explain that further for the benefit of the "noisy and windy" Hoi-Polloi "running loose" on this thread.
You would probably like to explain how Front-Gun firing or Rocket firing can affect/disturb 'air-flow' into Engine intakes esp at High Altitudes where the air is already thin and how that can cause 'compressor surges' in the Engine with consequent flame-outs. Or the phenomenon known as 'wind-milling' in turbines.

Or even explain how Front-Gun induced vibrations affect Engines and to the odd connection to the fact that both the P-51 Mustang and the F-86 Sabre from North American aviation mounted identical 0.5" Front-Gun armament though they were separated so far apart in time. Or why some aircraft mounting multiple 30mm cannon Front-Guns were not cleared to fire all guns at the same time.

Hopefully that may discourage the formation of "Gas and Wind Ingestion" that can easily affect some folks who are driven more by some odd fan-boy ideas instead of adherence to FACTS.

 

[Munir]

There are numerous examples of missile fired and the launching plane going down due to the missile smoke... Even US Tiger shot itself while diving in certain angle over water. One cannot conclude easily what happened without looking at the evidence. But I do not think that the Indians went down that easily. They fly tons of time and now suddenly it happened?