Ship with banned sat phone intercepted, crew arrested

[janon]

the law is vague and self contradictory...
in one place it only bans the "use" of thuraya and all sat phones in Indian waters.


on another place it completely bans entering indian waters with any type of satellite phone including inmarsat which are fixed installations on almost all ships these days.

Don't worry, if the law is vague or contradictory, the lawyers representing these people will argue that in court. We don't have to argue about it on PDF. Remember, they are not convicted, they are only accused. They will be given a free and fair trial where they (and their lawyers) can explain themselves, or challenge the law. You can be sure that they will come up with all these arguments and more.

Your earlier contention that it only applies to Indian land is not true. The director general of shipping (representing the ministry of shipping) has made it amply clear to all shipping companies that the use of Thuraya phones is illegal in Indian waters, in its Order No. 02 of 2012:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:0Ug2ufLrrJkJ:www.dgshipping.com/dgship/final/notices/dgsorder2_2012.doc+&hl=en&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESg9NYMZDwbkumxO8tOp0abRIhZHY_mLKIhzhJworQMyY7-vfipfW5ogCfZqBoTiOPwdw9KCNU7f_ZEqBnY1-NDVAYj28KilDqKCdYMdt1Az8LUh7mW8OPUDorH-FN1GQCrJXaR-&sig=AHIEtbS6eNvqR-ram1ZXE_dwCWBJ4VnIlQ

Subject:

Usage of Thuraya, Irridum and other such Satellite Communication in Indian Waters.

The use of Thuraya, Irridum and other such Satellite phone is banned in India under Sec 6 of Indian Wireless Act and Sec 20 of Indian Telegraph Act. It is intimated to all Shipping companies / Shipping agents that use of Thuraya, Irridum and other such Satellite is banned in Indian waters and seafarers should not us the same.

http://www.iss-shipping.com/Microsites/Document%20Library/Usage%20of%20Thuraya,%20Irridium%20and%20other%20Satellite%20Communication%20in%20Indian%20Waters.pdf

The law is pretty clear.

 

[Safriz]

LOLL, the GMDSS area will be IOR??? Don't confuse GMDSS with INMARSAT areas.
Also relate that to the type and flag of the vessel which has run afoul of the regulations in this instance.

Thuraya is not acceptable as part of Ship Station Installations. Show me a Ship Station License which says that it is. These documents as well as ITU requirements are something that my guys in Ops had to deal with. Just think about the key-word "installation".

Leave ECDIS for later......

India has asked ITU for law change but ITU hasnt endorsed Indian request as of yet..Here is the link

India seeks to disable satellite phones at the border to fight terrorism | Ars Technica

Don't worry, if the law is vague or contradictory, the lawyers representing these people will argue that in court. We don't have to argue about it on PDF. Remember, they are not convicted, they are only accused. They will be given a free and fair trial where they (and their lawyers) can explain themselves, or challenge the law. You can be sure that they will come up with all these arguments and more.

Your earlier contention that it only applies to Indian land is not true. The director general of shipping (representing the ministry of shipping) has made it amply clear to all shipping companies that the use of Thuraya phones is illegal in Indian waters, in its Order No. 02 of 2012:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:0Ug2ufLrrJkJ:www.dgshipping.com/dgship/final/notices/dgsorder2_2012.doc+&hl=en&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESg9NYMZDwbkumxO8tOp0abRIhZHY_mLKIhzhJworQMyY7-vfipfW5ogCfZqBoTiOPwdw9KCNU7f_ZEqBnY1-NDVAYj28KilDqKCdYMdt1Az8LUh7mW8OPUDorH-FN1GQCrJXaR-&sig=AHIEtbS6eNvqR-ram1ZXE_dwCWBJ4VnIlQ

Subject:

Usage of Thuraya, Irridum and other such Satellite Communication in Indian Waters.

The use of Thuraya, Irridum and other such Satellite phone is banned in India under Sec 6 of Indian Wireless Act and Sec 20 of Indian Telegraph Act. It is intimated to all Shipping companies / Shipping agents that use of Thuraya, Irridum and other such Satellite is banned in Indian waters and seafarers should not us the same.

http://www.iss-shipping.com/Microsites/Document%20Library/Usage%20of%20Thuraya,%20Irridium%20and%20other%20Satellite%20Communication%20in%20Indian%20Waters.pdf

The law is pretty clear.

Yes my earlier supposition was proved wrong and i myself posted the proof of me being wrong,so you didnt need to (Oh how great am i )

read this

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...-intercepted-crew-arrested-6.html#post4120126

 

[Capt.Popeye]

India has asked ITU for law change but ITU hasnt endorsed Indian request as of yet..Here is the link

India seeks to disable satellite phones at the border to fight terrorism | Ars Technica

Just show me any record that a Thuraya phone has been accepted on any ship (of any flag) and endorsed into the Ship Station License.

 

[Safriz]

Just show me any record that a Thuraya phone has been accepted on any ship (of any flag) and endorsed into the Ship Station License.

not banned either......except for Hindustani waters and Burma...

 

[janon]

not banned either......except for Hindustani waters and Burma...

And that is where they were apprehended. In Indian waters. End of story.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

not banned either......except for Hindustani waters and Burma...

Forget about bans. It is not accepted as legitimate equipment on a Ship Station License. Therefore is not accepted as a legitimate piece of Comms equipment on board. And there is a reason for that.
Not even FOCs will accept them.

 

[mirage2K]

the website of thuraya excludes India from its coverage area for GSM service as it is a banned network in India...however thuraya sat signals are available over India...also there is no GSM roaming partner for Thuraya in India as it is a banned entity

 

[janon]

India has asked ITU for law change but ITU hasnt endorsed Indian request as of yet..Here is the link

India seeks to disable satellite phones at the border to fight terrorism | Ars Technica



Yes my earlier supposition was proved wrong and i myself posted the proof of me being wrong,so you didnt need to (Oh how great am i )

read this

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...-intercepted-crew-arrested-6.html#post4120126

Well your wording was pretty strong, that the "Indian coast guard is illiterate..." Your rectification just said "ok found it". So I thought I should drive the point more strongly.

The ICG, far from being illiterate, was fully aware of the law, and did a marvelous job of apprehending the law breakers.

 

[Safriz]

And that is where they were apprehended. In Indian waters. End of story.

Not really the end..
Thuraya itself operates in dual mode and can be used as GSM phone on flick of a switch...So at that time it does not remain a satellite phone..
Hence the law is unclear,vague and puts ship crew,tourists and many other at risk of harrasment,arrest and financial losses....
For example ships entering indian waters with fixed satellite phone installations cannot leave the equipment outside indian waters and later pick them up on departure..but entering indian water with inmarsat-m which is now standard if not mendatory onboard all ships...makes the ship and crew liable to be jailed....

Well your wording was pretty strong, that the "Indian coast guard is illiterate..." Your rectification just said "ok found it". So I thought I should drive the point more strongly.

The ICG, far from being illiterate, was fully aware of the law, and did a marvelous job of apprehending the law breakers.

ok got it

 

[mirage2K]

Not really the end..
Thuraya itself operates in dual mode and can be used as GSM phone on flick of a switch...So at that time it does not remain a satellite phone..
Hence the law is unclear,vague and puts ship crew,tourists and many other at risk of harrasment,arrest and financial losses....
For example ships entering indian waters with fixed satellite phone installations cannot leave the equipment outside indian waters and later pick them up on departure..but entering indian water with inmarsat-m which is now standard if not mendatory onboard all ships...makes the ship and crew liable to be jailed....

refer post # 98

 

[janon]

By the way why are so many Pakistani members so eagerly defending the arrested fellows? The culprits are not Pakistani, are they? Nothing wrong with coming to the defence of fellow humans, but I'm just curious. Is it a burning sense of justice, a desire to stand up for any accused anywhere? Purely out of love for humanity? It's very strange that they are all so vocal on an issue that doesn't concern Pakistan in any way. Why are all the Pakistani members jumping in their defence, and trying to find some fault with the ICG's actions or Indian law? (An act that probably applies in Pakistan as well, since it was passed in 1885?)

As I said, there is nothing inherently wrong with that. It is great if they are so vocal about the rights of every accused everywhere. We need such staunch defenders of liberty, such noble souls who are interested in the cause of justice, always willing to find any loophole to defend an accused. I'm just curious, that is all.

 

[Safriz]

Anyway i will bail out from this thread....we have posted links to indian laws and discussed them in detail..Hope this thread being on the internet will guide unsuspecting seafarers and tourists planning to enter india with a satellite phone.....

 

[janon]

Anyway i will bail out from this thread....we have posted links to indian laws and discussed them in detail..Hope this thread being on the internet will guide unsuspecting seafarers and tourists planning to enter india with a satellite phone.....

They shouldn't need this thread for that, there are plenty of advisories issued by the govt of india, by its embassies, and by the ministries of most countries about entering Indian waters with thuraya phones. Google "thuraya india advisory". They ought to be aware of the laws that concern their profession, without needing PDF.

 

[Safriz]

They shouldn't need this thread for that, there are plenty of advisories issued by the govt of india, by its embassies, and by the ministries of most countries about entering Indian waters with thuraya phones. Google "thuraya india advisory". They ought to be aware of the laws that concern their profession, without needing PDF.

like the law the advisories too are very vague and can land people in trouble...Did come across a few...

The only safe way is leave your sat phone at home before entering india even if you are in transit or on a cruise ship.....If you are a passenger on a cruise ship with satellite phone, and your ship enters indian waters.the police can still arrest you despite the fact that you may only be in transit.

 

[janon]

like the law the advisories too are very vague and can land people in trouble...Did come across a few...

The only safe way is leave your sat phone at home before entering india even if you are in transit or on a cruise ship.....If you are a passenger on a cruise ship with satellite phone, and your ship enters indian waters.the police can still arrest you despite the fact that you may only be in transit.

The advisory is as clear as it can be.

Embassy of India in Moscow: "Thuraya Satphone Service is not permitted in India. Anyone using any prohibited telegraphic device, including Satphone, violates the existing laws and is liable to be penalized under the law.”

Advisory to Republic of Liberia's maritime authority: " It is intimated to all Shipping companies / Shipping agents that use of Thuraya, Irridum and other such Satellite is banned in Indian waters and seafarers should not us the same."

Embassy of India in Germany: "11.Satellite telephone services like Thuraya and Irridium are not permitted in India. Unauthorised use of satellite telephone services will be prosecuted under section 6 of Indian Wireless Act and section 20 of Indian Telegraph Act."

And similarly you can find advisories to every country. How much more clearer can it be? Also, as I said earlier on this thread, the culprits were fully aware of the illegality, since they dumped the phones into the water when they saw the ICG approaching them. Even their lawyers will have a hard time arguing that they were unaware of the law. Which by the way is no excuse, since 'Ignorantia juris non excusat '. Seafarers (or anybody else) are expected to know the laws governing their profession.