Shawal Valley: The last frontier in Zarb - e - Azab!

[Tipu7]

two words

Terrain and border access to Afg.

Easier for reinforcements from Afghanistan to come for the TTP.

It means this operation will take a while and will cast us damage of life .......
Even if we manage to clean up entire valley....
How we will maintain our occupation? Will we deploy FC in this region? With specific border security equipment?

The operating taking so long because of two factors. One Securing the high ground and peaks and then second wait out for the winter to go. The battle for shawal actually began in last August. Since we have gained high ground, now we are moving into valley which consist of forests deep ravines like shown above

 

[Neutron]

two words

Terrain and border access to Afg.

Easier for reinforcements from Afghanistan to come for the TTP.

Network of underground tunnels in a dense forest , full of arieal cover , providing them cover from observation and cover from fire. Complete airforce and aviation will be ineffective same goes for artillery fire.
Reconnaissance is nearly impossible and you cannot locate exact targets in this valley.
It is really hard and best of luck for our men fighting with courage.

 

[Paksanity]

Network of underground tunnels in a dense forest , full of arieal cover , providing them cover from observation and cover from fire. Complete airforce and aviation will be ineffective same goes for artillery fire.
Reconnaissance is nearly impossible and you cannot locate exact targets in this valley.
It is really hard and best of luck for our men fighting with courage.

Sustained artillery barrage and continous aerial bombardment of wooded area can provide some psychological advantages. If they do it for 48 hrs, they can deprive b*stards of sleep. Maybe a few rounds will hit too. We are talking general area bombing and shelling round the clock. A la WW 1 trench warfare kind.

 

[Neutron]

Sustained artillery barrage and continous aerial bombardment of wooded area can provide some psychological advantages. If they do it for 48 hrs, they can deprive b*stards of sleep. Maybe a few rounds will hit too. We are talking general area bombing and shelling round the clock. A la WW 1 trench warfare kind.

Simple solution ....... use biological and chemical weapons in this valley.......or bring all own forces out from shawal and test your tactical nukes over there. Save own men and equipment..........and get psychological advantage for ever

 

[Paksanity]

Simple solution ....... use biological and chemical weapons in this valley.......or bring all own forces out from shawal and test your tactical nukes over there. Save own men and equipment..........and get psychological advantage for ever

Not very practical man! You know the fall outs. But I'm sure boy's have a plan. Let's see and pray for safety of our soldiers. May Allah protect them.

 

[The Eagle]

Indeed the fight is entering the toughest phase due to terrain and valley. Best of luck to the Jawans and hopefully the impact wouldn't the temporary but lasting forever by taking them down all terrorists and their safe houses.

Pakistan Zindabad

 

[CriticalThinker02]

And it will be the hardest fight why? Because Air-support in such densely forested areas would close to nill. Take a look at this video. PA cobra engaging TTP uzbek fighters

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Can a military analyst or some one with qualifications in this field explain this video in detail please like for example why did the cobra's circle around at the beginning and not target the militants immediately also there was only machine gun firing heard or seen, why were no shell's fired?, Why weren't those houses targeted? Are not thermal heat seeking camera's installed in such helicopters so how can they escape so easily? etc

 

[TheNoob]

Can a military analyst or some one with qualifications in this field explain this video in detail please like for example why did the cobra's circle around at the beginning and not target the militants immediately also there was only machine gun firing heard or seen, why were no shell's fired?, Why weren't those houses targeted? Are not thermal heat seeking camera's installed in such helicopters so how can they escape so easily? etc

Why didnt they fire right away?
Rules of enagement.
Why where there no shells fired?
Depends on what shells your talking about, the cobra is firing her 20mm gatling machine gun.
No Thermal sights?
Obviously, we do not have them... yet. And this is why they got away when the Gunner had to target them manually. (Not sure, maybe someone can clarify the specs our cobra has)

And for the houses... I guess collateral or priorities.

 

[CriticalThinker02]

Why didnt they fire right away?
Rules of enagement.
Why where there no shells fired?
Depends on what shells your talking about, the cobra is firing her 20mm gatling machine gun.
No Thermal sights?
Obviously, we do not have them... yet. And this is why they got away when the Gunner had to target them manually. (Not sure, maybe someone can clarify the specs our cobra has)

And for the houses... I guess collateral or priorities.

Wouldn't it be logical to target the houses since knowing they would use cover to escape from the heli's? A few shell's fired on those houses would have leveled them completely aside from that there appears to be no civilians in the video.

Thermal sights would have made this much easier.

 

[Bratva]

Can a military analyst or some one with qualifications in this field explain this video in detail please like for example why did the cobra's circle around at the beginning and not target the militants immediately also there was only machine gun firing heard or seen, why were no shell's fired?, Why weren't those houses targeted? Are not thermal heat seeking camera's installed in such helicopters so how can they escape so easily? etc

Because there is no HMDS in cobras, Heli has to rotate and point gun at the target to shoot. Cobra were blind and wasnt able to see running tangos on the ground. They were firing on estimation and approximation

 

[Tipu7]

Simple solution ....... use biological and chemical weapons in this valley.......or bring all own forces out from shawal and test your tactical nukes over there. Save own men and equipment..........and get psychological advantage for ever

Not wise.
It's not so simple.
Use of any WMD will result in severe consequences in international relations as well internal politics...... it will give message that we are immature and irresponsible state as far as WMDs are concerned...... and you know what will happen next.......

Biological weapons are friend of none......
Valley is located close to Afghan border...... the hazardous effects can cause damage in wide area..... here as well as there...... we don't have enough equipment to save our own soldiers from adverse effects.......
Such weapons are not used on for such low level targets......

 

[litman]

shawal would be a paradise if there would have been peace. A valley with snow capped mountains, streams, pines and fruit trees like apples, peaches, grapes and dry fruit like chilgoza and walnut. probably the largest reserve of chilgoza pine in pakistan.

 

[Neutron]

Not wise.
It's not so simple.
Use of any WMD will result in severe consequences in international relations as well internal politics...... it will give message that we are immature and irresponsible state as far as WMDs are concerned...... and you know what will happen next.......

Biological weapons are friend of none......
Valley is located close to Afghan border...... the hazardous effects can cause damage in wide area..... here as well as there...... we don't have enough equipment to save our own soldiers from adverse effects.......
Such weapons are not used on for such low level targets......

American used them in world war and so can we.......... I don't argue that do something like this without any consideration of consequences instead do something like this with consent of world powers and after careful calculations. Hanging someone is against international charter of human rights but we are doing so under special conditions and permissions with the consent of international powers.

 

[Tipu7]

American used them in world war and so can we

different times, different rules, different parameters..............

Hanging someone is against international charter of human rights but we are doing so under special conditions and permissions with the consent of international powers.

hanging is something different............. using chemical weapons on your own land is something different..........

 

[TheNoob]

Wouldn't it be logical to target the houses since knowing they would use cover to escape from the heli's? A few shell's fired on those houses would have leveled them completely aside from that there appears to be no civilians in the video.

Thermal sights would have made this much easier.

Well, Yes and no.
If the pilot could have a safe hover away from their(enemy AA) range, then maybe it might have been more accurate and you would not have been able to see the video.
Besides, the 20mm would have piereced through the house anyway, so theres no worries. :p

True, Hoping we get some advanced sights for our Zulus we're supposed to recieve soon enough.