Shaukat Aziz advisor to Lakshmi Mittal

[Hang em High]

.
Had I been Mittal, I would have taken over Steel Mills to further weaken a wounded hen i.e. Pakistan...

Now dear thanks God you are not Mittal or any business Man for that matter. Look its not in the favor of any business to leave a bad name behind... Why? because businesses are global today. You Sxrew up things in one country and shut the doors for yourself all over the world. Secondly, why should he care about Undo-Pak relations... he is a British citizen. Thirdly, he might have made the very necessary investment needed in the Technology and infrastructure of the company for his own profits sake. Finally, we have complete confidence in the able leadership of our President Mr. Asif Ali Zardari [May he live long and prosperous in all his Glory and Grace].

 

[SekrutYakhni]

Now dear thanks God you are not Mittal or any business Man for that matter. Look its not in the favor of any business to leave a bad name behind... Why? because businesses are global today. You Sxrew up things in one country and shut the doors for yourself all over the world. Secondly, why should he care about Undo-Pak relations... he is a British citizen. Thirdly, he might have made the very necessary investment needed in the Technology and infrastructure of the company for his own profits sake. Finally, we have complete confidence in the able leadership of our President Mr. Asif Ali Zardari [May he live long and prosperous in all his Glory and Grace].

okay..you are right...now I am waiting for other people to reply to my posts...especially qsaark...
but again I posted before that it was my opinion...my speculation...maybe you are right..as I do not have any kind of inside information...

 

[Hang em High]

OMG!


The only point of my post was to ask that are the people of hostile nations ready to work for our country..
I don't think so..
Try to read the posts and understand the questions please.

once again please...

and understand the concept of GDP..
I am reading about it in my school (Canadian one)...
so don't use the label of a conspiracy theorist...
Search what alternative indicators are being used to monitor economic growth..
A tip for you..
the more the GDP is the more the country is surrounded by social issues...
Rest...search and understand according to your believes..

That is the point dear
you cannot take business and economics in the same military sense, as you can take nuclear technology. Its perhaps rude to say this but 'money is the only meritocracy is the world, in its purest form'.
Aren't there Palestinians working for Isreali Firms, or British Firms working in Ireland, or Iranians working in American Companies.
And don't mind the lecture on GDP thing... i can give a couple of hinter on that... teaching it at university level sure fills one up a bit.

 

[MastanKhan]

Regardless of Mittal or anyone else..our doors are open for everyone..
The question here is not to point out Mittal but his biological roots..
Do you know for sure Mastan Khan, Mittal would have turned Steel Mills upside down with Russian investment in it according to some sources (I am not ratifying them)..I do not think so Mittal was planning to do that...based on pure speculation of mine as I am no one to judge the acts....
Had I been Mittal, I would have taken over Steel Mills to further weaken a wounded hen i.e. Pakistan...

Hi,

First of all you have no clue as to the egos of the ultra successful---any failure on their resume is a massive loss of revenue---a man like Mittal doesnot look for an intentional loss---that is an extremely cheap thought by an ordinary citizen---.

Indians don't consider Mittal as an indian and neither does he. When you talk about the ultra rich---you have to understand that their only goal is to succeed and make more money---.

Petty differences between two warring nations are none of their business.

Today---pak steel is broken down---hundreds of millions of dollars in loss---Mittal couldnot have done any worse than this current regime has. At least we would have nationalized the steel mill from him if had not done the promised upgrades and kept the billion dollars as well.

Today we got neither.

Evere heard the name of Armand Hammer

 

[Hang em High]

And one thing more; we as a nation has to recognize one thing more, we are not that weak as much we think ourselves to be;
1. We are the 6th biggest market in the world,
2. We are the transit gateway to China and Central Asia,
3. Our education system if not parallel to UK and US, is far superior to many [and in no way inferior to india or iran],
4. Our wealth is well spread, not like india and afghanistan where the wealth is in few hands [what happens when wealth is in few hands.... french revolution]
5. We are making Air planes man!!!
6. We have the intellectual depth to make an atom bomb and human development index [HDI... google it out].
7. Our technology adoption and consumption patterns are far more stable than most of the developing countries,
8. And Finally our growth is not pumped up US and EU, whatever we have in economy [may be not much] is our own development and not dependent on the back patting of west.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

Regardless of Mittal or anyone else..our doors are open for everyone..
The question here is not to point out Mittal but his biological roots..
Do you know for sure Mastan Khan, Mittal would have turned Steel Mills upside down with Russian investment in it according to some sources (I am not ratifying them)..I do not think so Mittal was planning to do that...based on pure speculation of mine as I am no one to judge the acts....
Had I been Mittal, I would have taken over Steel Mills to further weaken a wounded hen i.e. Pakistan...

Hi,

First of all you have no clue as to the egos of the ultra successful---any failure on their resume is a massive loss of revenue---a man like Mittal doesnot look for an intentional loss---that is an extremely cheap thought by an ordinary citizen---.

Indians don't consider Mittal as an indian and neither does he. When you talk about the ultra rich---you have to understand that their only goal is to succeed and make more money---.

Petty differences between two warring nations are none of their business.

Today---pak steel is broken down---hundreds of millions of dollars in loss---Mittal couldnot have done any worse than this current regime has. At least we would have nationalized the steel mill from him if had not done the promised upgrades and kept the billion dollars as well.

Today we got neither.

Well your first point seems to be valid...
Why would he consider loosing couple of hundred million dollars...
but at the end for me I would like to see a Pakistani saving national assets..
and I know better than anyone else on this planet remember better than everyone..that what is takes to become a successful billionaire...
and it wasn't a cheap ordinary citizen thought instead it was a patriotism...
Mittal is not a holy cow...at least I don't think so..

http://www.tribune.ie/archive/article/2008/jul/13/cork-failure-haunts-indian-steel-magnate/

Same catastrophe could have happened again and for Pakistan it would have been disastrous as media would have portrayed it as an anti Pakistan deal...

Praise thy Lord that Musharaf is a lucky goat...if Mittal had to pull from Pakistan Steel Mills after couple of years of opertion, Musharaf could be seen in cow's stomach..

anyways steel mill is still a burden on our economy and I hope a good administrator comes and helps that institution...

 

[SekrutYakhni]

That is the point dear
you cannot take business and economics in the same military sense, as you can take nuclear technology. Its perhaps rude to say this but 'money is the only meritocracy is the world, in its purest form'.
Aren't there Palestinians working for Isreali Firms, or British Firms working in Ireland, or Iranians working in American Companies.
And don't mind the lecture on GDP thing... i can give a couple of hinter on that... teaching it at university level sure fills one up a bit.

Well if you are teaching at university level than it was a very poor example to measure the growth of Pakistan's economy..
I recommend you to study more about it before giving examples on the forums...remember it is a public forum everyone reads it..
One thing (of many) GDP constitutes is the income difference...
Do you want me to give you an example of effective indicator used by some Canadian organizations?

No offence..it was just a suggestion
and PM if you wanna discuss more...lets not derail this thread or if you are interested than open a new thread regarding GDP...
Understanding each other is vital to come to an acceptable conclusion..
Knowledge is power but bashing each other is illiteracy...
Same applies to me, you and others

 

[qsaark]

Lets do some empirical checking on the thesis... lets see whats the economic indicators has to say on the matter. Lets compare the Data for different primers and see how they performed in economic terms.

This is all crap, total BS and statistical juggling. More than 50% of Pakistani economy is undocumented, which means there is no record of who is earning how much and how much tax is paid. Hence the figures you have presented are not but guesses and can not be presented to prove or disprove anything.

What you really want to do is to go to the people and ask how much income raise they saw between 1999 and 2008; than calculate the inflation and find the purchase power of an average Pakistani. A mazdoor[/] used to earn something like Rs 3000 in 1999, the same mazdoor was earning Rs 5000-6000 in 2008. However, in 1999, the bread used to sell for Rs 2.00 whereas in 2008, the bread was selling for Rs 5-6; In 1999, a bus would charge Rs 5.00 whereas in 2008, it was between Rs 15-20; in 1999 sugar was selling for Rs 12-13, whereas in 2008, it was Rs 50 and up and so on and so forth. So a person who was making lets say twice as much in 2008 as compared to what he was making in 1999 ,was paying at least thrice as much for basic necessities and utilities. So my question to you is, how much increase he saw in terms of improvement of life standard?

You don't have to go far away, just ask your Mother, how much she was getting from your father in 1999 and how much she was spending to run your household, and what was the ratio of income versus spending in 2008? I am pretty sure you'll forget about the statistics, unless of course you belong to the upper class that has always been immune to these things.

 

[qsaark]

When you talk about the ultra rich---you have to understand that their only goal is to succeed and make more money---.

Not always; what happened in 1999-2000 in Malaysia? What the foreign investors did to bring down the economy of Malaysia and other so-called Asian Tigers? Initially they invested, made tons of money, and than.....took out their money from the market, bang... market crashed....well Malaysians learnt the lesson but they suffered. I know these events first hand because I used to live in Malaysia for more than four years.

 

[Hang em High]

Well if you are teaching at university level than it was a very poor example to measure the growth of Pakistan's economy..
I recommend you to study more about it before giving examples on the forums...remember it is a public forum everyone reads it..
One thing (of many) GDP constitutes is the income difference...

Dear it makes me happpy to see your understanding of the concept of GDP. But take the Nobel Prize winners of any decade at random and 4-5 will be on the topic GDP.

There are different measures of development, social indicators, economic indicators, HDI etc. but follow to analogy; If you want to tell someone how wealthy or well off a family is you can say;
1. How many houses and cars they have,
2. How well educated the family is,
3. The kind of jobs they are doing,
4. The kind of awards and respect this family has earned,
5. And the collective earning of all the members of the family. [which in case of a county makes up GDP, which can again be different for different people, as not all the brothers in the family will be earning same amount of money].

And no offense taken.

 

[Hang em High]

Not always; what happened in 1999-2000 in Malaysia? What the foreign investors did to bring down the economy of Malaysia and other so-called Asian Tigers? Initially they invested, made tons of money, and than.....took out their money from the market, bang... market crashed.

I think it was more about recessionary trends than a global conspiracy against the Asian Tigers. They brought money because they saw better prospects , and they took their money back when the market didn't remain so much lucrative.

 

[qsaark]

I think it was more about recessionary trends than a global conspiracy against the Asian Tigers. They brought money because they saw better prospects , and they took their money back when the market didn't remain so much lucrative.

Yes, this was the official reason given; but in Malaysia, it was not digested like that. They took several radical steps to ensure that foreign investors would not take out their money so easily while leaving the market in shambles.

 

[qsaark]

Increasing mobile phones from 7 million to 70 million is not an economic revolution instead increasing literacy rate from 30 percent to 70 percent is a true revolution..Construction of a 7 star hotel in Islamabad is not an economic revolution instead sustaining 7 star hotel is an economic revolution..buying aircrafts from other countries is not Pakistan tujhe Salam instead flying home made 5 gen aircraft is Pakistan tujhe Salam....Pakistani people saving Pakistan is a true meaning of a united and patriotic nation not China saving Pakistan is a glorious Pakistan..Me, you and others saving Steel Mills is a unity not Mittal saving Steel Mills is a golden egg...
Getting a good education from abroad and going back to Pakistan to serve your country is something achievable not getting education from the U.S. or Canada and yaking on the forums is considered to be an achievement...
Supporting people of Pakistan will make Pakistan an international power...
Supporting people like Musharaf, Zardari, Fazal ur Rehman, Altaf Hussain, Sharifs etc will make Pakistan an international beggar..which we already have achieved...

True words from a true patriotic. And look what you got....your post is ranked lowly...you know why, because a very senior (in age perhaps) yet an intolerant so-called Think Tank did not agree with you. You used no bad language, you insulted no one, you only expressed your thoughts and this is what you got. Why I am saying this? Because this is the answer to the next point you raised as follows. If I go back to Pakistan, I would not be able to do for my countrymen what I am able to do while in the US.

Qsaark and other guys...if you have technical eduction than go to Pakistan...serve the people of your nationality...getting a million dollar in the U.S. will lead us nowhere except living a 70 years life in better condition...

I am a researcher, and Alhamdulillah, a successful one. While I am staying in the US, I am helping my fellow countrymen in the best possible way. I have my own research grants on which I hire Pakistani kids; they come here, work with me, and get themselves settled. Than they invite other Pakistanis and I hope this will continue like this. I am a Scientist, so all I can do is to help my people in Science, and that too in the field I am working. I establish collaborations with folk back at home; help them finding opportunities to do cutting edge Science (which is very much possible in the US but not in Pakistan). I am not a millionaire, nor I am a son of big time politician, or a Chairman of a political party so I have my limitations; but I assure you, I do what is in my capacity as a Scientist.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

True words from a true patriotic. And look what you got....your post is ranked lowly...you know why, because a very senior (in age perhaps) yet an intolerant so-called Think Tank did not agree with you. You used no bad language, you insulted no one, you only expressed your thoughts and this is what you got. Why I am saying this? Because this is the answer to the next point you raised as follows. If I go back to Pakistan, I would not be able to do for my countrymen what I am able to do while in the US.

I am a researcher, and Alhamdulillah, a successful one. While I am staying in the US, I am helping my fellow countrymen in the best possible way. I have my own research grants on which I hire Pakistani kids; they come here, work with me, and get themselves settled. Than they invite other Pakistanis and I hope this will continue like this. I am a Scientist, so all I can do is to help my people in Science, and that too in the field I am working. I establish collaborations with folk back at home; help them finding opportunities to do cutting edge Science (which is very much possible in the US but not in Pakistan). I am not a millionaire, nor I am a son of big time politician, or a Chairman of a political party so I have my limitations; but I assure you, I do what is in my capacity as a Scientist.

Sir you are doing a very good job!
I really appreciate it!
We need people like you..
I am only 19 years old...and I praise your love towards motherland..
best of luck sir..
If you need any kind of help tell me..maybe I can help your mission..
InshAllah one day Pakistan will be a peaceful country and would be considered an industrialized nation.
We need more people like you!




and one more thing qsaark..you have a good grasp on English language...
cool


and I hope Mastan Khan review's his decision...
I do not think that I used any kind of offensive language other than disagreeing..

 

[sparklingway]

I am a researcher, and Alhamdulillah, a successful one. While I am staying in the US, I am helping my fellow countrymen in the best possible way. I have my own research grants on which I hire Pakistani kids; they come here, work with me, and get themselves settled. Than they invite other Pakistanis and I hope this will continue like this. I am a Scientist, so all I can do is to help my people in Science, and that too in the field I am working. I establish collaborations with folk back at home; help them finding opportunities to do cutting edge Science (which is very much possible in the US but not in Pakistan). I am not a millionaire, nor I am a son of big time politician, or a Chairman of a political party so I have my limitations; but I assure you, I do what is in my capacity as a Scientist.

For me, men of science have national allegiances but are not limited by any political state demarcations. Science is not limited to working in your own country, its about contributing to humanity as whole. One can contribute to one's country like you said, which I believe you are. On the other hand, working for Goldman Sachs or Credit Suisse is not like contributing to human progress.

A researcher in my opinion, is free to live anywhere and the aid of knowledge that he can bring his home is really a big donation. Working in a bank in Hong Kong, Singapore, London or New York is no service to humanity in general or your country in particular.

Sadly, even inside our country, bankers and people working for mega corporations are respected more than anybody else. There isn't anything wrong with that but society sees them as some holy cows while they are the same people who bribe their way and are somewhat responsible for the rampant corruption we see.