Shaheen-3 missile to cover Indian second strike from Andaman: Lt General Khalid Kidwai

[bloo]

Time to get PDV deployed and fast.

 

[IND151]

They aren't important in a nuclear exchange.

Once Pakistan completely destroys mainland India and all its life-line, hence crumbling India into stone age (uh, literally!)..it doesn't need any strikes on any Islands for that matter.

Indian response will destroy Pak anyways..whether from Islands or Submarines or from land.

Bottom Line: There exists a clear M.A.D factor in South Asia and india has been contained

?????

contained? you mean Pakistan has strong deterrence, right?

 

[Echo_419]

Pakistan has developed the 2,750 km range Shaheen-3 missile to prevent India from gaining a second-strike nuclear capability from Andaman and Nicobar islands, said Lt General (retd) Khalid Kidwai, former head of Pakistan’s nuclear weapons division.
Addressing the Carnegie International Nuclear Policy Conference 2015 in Washington DC, Kidwai said one sided policies of the United States favouring India – like the NSG exemption for the nuclear deal – have been a destabilizing factor for South Asia. These US policies are unhelpful and unacceptable to Pakistan, he said.

Kidwai is currently advisor to Pakistan’s National Command Authority (NCA) and was the pioneer Director General of Pakistan’s Strategic Plans Division (SPD), which he headed for an unprecedented 15 years till December 2013 – with an unheard of 12 extensions after his retirement from the army. As the head of SPD, Kidwai is credited with conceiving, articulating and executing Pakistan’s nuclear policy and deterrence doctrines into a tangible and robust nuclear force structure.

Kidwai said that Pakistan’s nuclear program isn’t open-ended and it has been designed to deter India. In response to a question on the number of nuclear bombs that will be enough for Pakistan, he refused to divulge the exact numbers by suggesting that Pakistan follows the policy of nuclear ambiguity and revealing numbers would be against it. Kidwai added that Pakistan had already moved from minimum deterrence to full spectrum deterrence and the current numbers will be more or less fine for the next 10-15 years. As per the estimates of Arms Control Association, Pakistan currently has between 100 to 120 nuclear warheads as compared to India’s 90-110 warheads.

Kidwai said that nuclear buildup in South Asia “has made war as an instrument of policy almost unthinkable.” He also defended Pakistan’s quest for Nasr shoot-and-scoot missile system by arguing that introducing a variety of tactical nuclear weapons has deterred India’s conventional capability. He said that Pakistan had developed these weapons in response to India’s Cold Start strategy. As these tactical nuclear weapons are mounted on short distance missiles, their command and control is delegated to lower levels in the military. This delegation, with lesser checks and balances, raises concerns about the safety and security of the nuclear warheads.

Kidwai revealed that operation control of nuclear weapons is with the SPD and NCA although some day to day delegation has been made to the three defence services.
Kidwai questioned that when the Indian space program with ICBM potential doesn’t trouble anybody, why does the development of a Shaheen-3 missile by Pakistan bother everyone. “Why aren’t India’s nukes and missiles troublesome?,” he asked.
Kidwai also revealed that Pakistan’s sea-based second strike capability is a “work in progress” and will come into play in

the next few years. Ruling out nuclear submarines for Pakistan, he said “I won’t say nuclear submarines, but if broadly talking about a second-strike capability for which submarines are a platform, yes.”
India operates a nuclear submarine, INS Chakra and is currently testing another indigenously developed nuclear submarine, INS Arihant.
On Pakistan Army’s connections with extremist militant groups, Kidwai said that these issues are remnants of historical superpower games in South Asia. “To say that I should tell my colleagues not to get involved is too simplistic and naive, it is the historic reality which dictates this need,” Kidwai argued.


Shaheen-3 missile to cover Indian second strike from Andaman: Lt General Khalid Kidwai | The Indian Express | Page 2

Unnsesaary

So we CAN expect a nuclear sub...

Nuclear sub is a technological wonder which is very hard to master
PK has a better chance to get a normal sub with nuclear tipped SLBMs

They aren't important in a nuclear exchange.

Once Pakistan completely destroys mainland India and all its life-line, hence crumbling India into stone age (uh, literally!)..it doesn't need any strikes on any Islands for that matter.

Indian response will destroy Pak anyways..whether from Islands or Submarines or from land.

Bottom Line: There exists a clear M.A.D factor in South Asia and india has been contained

Do explain how have you contained us

Time to get PDV deployed and fast.

We already have a better ABM system
Sanity in the Pakistani mind
But further precautions must be taken

 

[drunken-monke]

Kidwai questioned that when the Indian space program with ICBM potential doesn’t trouble anybody, why does the development of a Shaheen-3 missile by Pakistan bother everyone. “Why aren’t India’s nukes and missiles troublesome?,” he asked.

Because India is a Mature democracy and nuclear safety and responsibility of India is multiple folds better than Pakistan who unlike India was/is involved in nuclear proliferation.

 

[Bratva]

You forgot why BMD is created, no one is going to fire missile with advance

You forgot why BMD is created, no one is going to fire missile with advance warning of 3hrs.
And you are very wrong about doing calculations of trajectory, path and speed. Please go back to school.
Read the quoted text to understand how it works. Also note already have dedicated military network which shares data across the country at processed live at connected nodes.

Nice theory, do you know It will take 30 mints to reach missile from Russia to America ? America has time to afford such luxuries of detecting and sharing info through net centric sensors. You are so high on your BMD being some super duper thing you forget recen Ballistic missile of Pakistan are implementing Anti BMD measures and their trajectory isn't parabolic but rather depressed. The radars won't be able to fix a probable point of interception in 10-15 mints.

Instead of advising me on going back to school, why don't you read some literature on american BMD ?

For a second you cannot forget that you got nukes, always everywhere you guys are talking about that. lol MAD!!! Dreaming is Good, now come to reality. In the war IAF and Navy will destroy most of your missiles and nukes. And rest of them will be taken cared by BMD. After that you face the thermonuclear heat.

I thought you were sensible. I laugh at the fallacies of indians and their absurd believes. Most of the missiles and nukes would be lauched from balochistan and FATA region. Open google map and see for yourself rather engaging in wet dreams of IAF and IA talking out inventory of Pakistan.

And about BMD comment. Nice jock like you

 

[Donatello]

@Oscar

You and other guys were saying that Andman and Nikobar islands are not important when I said they will be having naval and other bases and this fact will act as deterence.

Now take look at OP.

@Donatello

Not important, i would say, because whatever will be left of India would really hard to salvage with a bunch of Islands.

 

[Viny]

Nice theory, do you know It will take 30 mints to reach missile from Russia to America ? America has time to afford such luxuries of detecting and sharing info through net centric sensors. You are so high on your BMD being some super duper thing you forget recen Ballistic missile of Pakistan are implementing Anti BMD measures and their trajectory isn't parabolic but rather depressed. The radars won't be able to fix a probable point of interception in 10-15 mints.

Instead of advising me on going back to school, why don't you read some literature on american BMD ?




I thought you were sensible. I laugh at the fallacies of indians and their absurd believes. Most of the missiles and nukes would be lauched from balochistan and FATA region. Open google map and see for yourself rather engaging in wet dreams of IAF and IA talking out inventory of Pakistan.

And about BMD comment. Nice jock like you

Just for your food of thought, the Anti Balastic missile gets it path and direction when its in air. So they can start with basic idea of threat and improvise upon the data in realtime and give path and direction to ABM. And dont you think India knows what kind of anti BMD tactics you can try, wont they have anything to counter it.

And do you know what American BMD was not tested against the missles lauched from russia, they where tested for missiles fired from costal waters at america. they didnt wait for 30 mins timeframe.

And probably few article that you read on BMD where from 1990's we are approaching 2020, things have changed a long way in regard to airborne threat detection. Against the centralized processing the distributed parallel mess processing is doing a great trick in realtime

I guess its time to go to school ..have a great learning.

 

[Bratva]

Just for your food of thought, the Anti Balastic missile gets it path and direction when its in air. So they can start with basic idea of threat and improvise upon the data in realtime and give path and direction to ABM. And dont you think India knows what kind of anti BMD tactics you can try, wont they have anything to counter it.

And do you know what American BMD was not tested against the missles lauched from russia, they where tested for missiles fired from costal waters at america. they didnt wait for 30 mins timeframe.

And probably few article that you read on BMD where from 1990's we are approaching 2020, things have changed a long way in regard to airborne threat detection. Against the centralized processing the distributed parallel mess processing is doing a great trick in realtime

I guess its time to go to school ..have a great learning.

Start, Improvise, Calculating and mapping out point of interception of a supersonic Missile in a matter of minutes. Seems you are refusing to use logic and common sense repeatedly. Do wake me up, when super sonic vehicles at mach 10 + can be intercepted in matter of minutes by BMD.

 

[Viny]

Start, Improvise, Calculating and mapping out point of interception of a supersonic Missile in a matter of minutes. Seems you are refusing to use logic and common sense repeatedly. Do wake me up, when super sonic vehicles at mach 10 + can be intercepted in matter of minutes by BMD.

Wake up Wake up...you have been sleeping to long...
Did you read about our recent tests?
In the last test were two attacker missiles simultaneously engaged, though one was an electronic simulation. The electronically simulated target had a range of 1,500 km and was successfully intercepted by an electronically simulated interceptor at an altitude of 120 km. A 2000km range ballastic missile launched in usual minimal trajectory will have re entry velocity of around 4kms/sec even at altitude at 15kms which means a velocity is more than Mach 10. And the successful test proves that we have those capabilities

DRDO has announced major changes to the interceptor and the target missile in the next test.
New exo-atmospheric interceptor, as discussed earlier, will have a dual terminal sensor and can climb to an altitude of 150 km. The target missile would also be a new missile—a boosted (to increase terminal velocity) two stage version of the Dhanush missile. It will also feature a new pulse motor, which will provide surges of propulsion during the missile’s later stage, increasing its manoeuvrability when very close to the target. This attacker missile would be launched from a ship positioned 300-350 km from the interceptor location reaching an apogee of 150 km.
With these improvements, which according to the DRDO chief, the target missile would mimic the actual terminal conditions of a 1,500 km class ballistic missile. Along with this, six more electronic interceptions, would also be attempted, both endo- and exo-atmosphere.

We are also improving the radars greatly.
Existing Green pine radar can track Mach10 speed, and we have swordfish in line too. And the next gen radars are under tests.

 

[HariPrasad]

How can the second strike be covered by a ballastic missile?

 

[IND151]

Not important, i would say, because whatever will be left of India would really hard to salvage with a bunch of Islands.

Pakistan has developed the 2,750 km range Shaheen-3 missile to prevent India from gaining a second-strike nuclear capability from Andaman and Nicobar islands, said Lt General (retd) Khalid Kidwai, former head of Pakistan’s nuclear weapons division.

While this statement shows that Andman and Nikobar islands were taken into consideration while planning Shaheen 3, the missile can not deny India second strike capability due to the force of SSBNs which India will have.

 

[sathya]

Shaheen 3 is big achievement for Pakistan, it shouldn't be actually if they were developing All the missiles.

But as far as India is concerned it doesn't matter much since we preparing for china as well, who got all ranges of missile.

 

[araz]

congrates Pakistaan. What a great news for you guys.

Problem being even Pakistaan will be nuked as soon as radar spots pakistani loss.

On a serious note: Rest in peace to all the fish & aquatic organism Around Andaman.

As they say in Poetry;
"Hum to doobay hain sanam tum ko bhi lay doobain gay". So sweet dreams to any stupid thoughts of incursions from "BOTH" sides. This war is too costly for any of the countries to contemplate easily.
On the nuclear sub issue, I still maintain it is not required. Second strike capability on the other hand will be and we are probably in the process of doing so.
Araz

 

[punit]

As they say in Poetry;
"Hum to doobay hain sanam tum ko bhi lay doobain gay". So sweet dreams to any stupid thoughts of incursions from "BOTH" sides. This war is too costly for any of the countries to contemplate easily.
On the nuclear sub issue, I still maintain it is not required. Second strike capability on the other hand will be and we are probably in the process of doing so.
Araz

aisa hai bhai .. jitne pani me ghoda doob jata hai utne me hathi maje karta hai .. so dubne aur dubane ka khayal apne dimag se nikal do!

 

[Major Shaitan Singh]

DRDO's Submarine Launched Ballistic Missile K-4 & K-15 Sagarika
by Ankit Panda

What happens to South Asian nuclear stability if Pakistan operationalizes a sea-based second strike capability?

Last week, Franz-Stefan Gady provided a helpful round-up of the confusing evidence surrounding the existence of Pakistan’s sea-based second nuclear strike capability. Since 2012, when Pakistan created its Naval Strategic Force Command, there has been considerable concern, in India and elsewhere, that Pakistan is close to imminently operationalizing a sea-based second strike capability. Though analysts remain divided over the question of how far Pakistan has taken its sea-based deterrent (we know, for example, that Pakistan has neither the quantity nor quality of submarines to effectively implement this yet), it’s worth understanding the consequences of such a development on strategic stability in South Asia.

First, what we know now suggests that any Pakistani sea-based second strike capability will depend on a sea-launched variant of the Hatf-VII Babur cruise missile. The Hatf-VII, a medium-range subsonic cruise missile, tops out at a range of 700 km, meaning that a submarine-based launch system would need to operate in waters relatively close to the prospective enemy’s shores (in Pakistan’s case, India). This brings up a problem for Pakistan’s plans for a sea-based deterrent that more established nuclear powers with sea-based deterrents such as the United States, Russia, and the United Kingdom haven’t faced. The credibility of a second strike capability lies in the difficult of detecting submarines carrying submarine-launch ballistic missiles. Undersea radars and other anti-submarine warfare techniques, already a major point of interest for the Indian armed forces, could undermine Pakistan’s sea-based deterrent.

Interestingly, this observation means that the actual specifications of the submarine being engineered for Pakistan’s sea-based deterrent, with the help of China, is less interesting than the actual delivery vehicle. Even if Pakistan manages to operate submarines on par with China’s Type 032 Qing-class or Type 041 Yuan-class, capable of launching longer-range land attack cruise missiles (a max range of 1,500 km), these missiles are only capable of being armed with “unitary tactical nuclear warheads,” according to globalsecurity.org – a far cry from the strategic nuclear deterrent necessary to credibly field a second strike capability. Experts note that Pakistan will need a submarine fleet comprising 14 vessels in order to keep one nuclear-armed sub on stand-by at all times. Back under Pervez Musharraf’s leadership, Pakistan planned to expand its fleet to 12 vessels.

Additionally, as Bruno Tertias noted in a thoughtful post over at the Lowy Interpreter last year, even if we generously acknowledge a credible strategic sea-based second strike capability to Pakistan, there is no reason to believe that conventional strategic stability logic would apply; i.e., sea-based second strike capabilities existing on both sides of the India-Pakistan nuclear balance would lead to better long-term stability.

Also worth noting is that currently, nuclear escalation in South Asia is not an entirely frictionless process given India’s mostly credible No First-Use doctrine and Pakistan’s claim that it keeps its warheads separated from its launchers (even though it maintains a First-Use policy for deterrent purposes). For a conflict across the Radcliffe Line to escalate into a full-blown strategic nuclear exchange, Pakistan’s National Command Authority (NCA) would have to explicitly authorize nuclear use. A Pakistani sea-based deterrent would make this traditional decoupling of warheads from launchers less viable and, as a result, make nuclear first-use by Pakistan more likely. Not only will this possibility cause Indian strategic planners to lose sleep, but it would draw considerable concern from the United States and other nuclear powers.

The above reasons, in addition to the purely financial constraints Franz outlined in his piece, suggest that a sea-based second strike option for Pakistan is both a costly acquisition and one without a guarantee of giving Islamabad the upper-hand in the South Asian nuclear arms race. With India’s K-15 Sagarika, K-4, and Agni-VI SLBMs on the horizon of entering service, Islamabad will do everything it can to keep up. Additionally, a second-strike capability is important given Pakistan’s lack of strategic depth and the possibility of India modifying its NFU doctrine in the future (though I question the utility of India abandoning NFU altogether).

2nd STRIKE

In nuclear strategy, second strike capability is a country's assured ability to respond to a nuclear attack with powerful nuclear retaliation against the attacker. To have such an ability (and to convince the opponent of its viability) is considered vital in nuclear deterrence, as otherwise the other side might be tempted to try to win a nuclear war in one massive first strike against the opponent's own nuclear forces.

Theory

The possession of second strike capabilities counters a first strike nuclear threat and can support a no first use nuclear strategy. Reciprocal second strike capabilities usually cause a mutual assured destruction defence strategy, though one side may have a lower level minimal deterrence response. An example of how second strike capability can be strengthened is the implementation of fail-deadly mechanisms. "When you talk of second strike capability, it means that when the mobile moves on surface whether on rail or on road, it will easily be detected by either intelligence or from the satellite imaging, but in this case, if you keep it either underwater or underground, certainly you won't be able to detect it. It is very difficult to detect."

India 2nd strike capability

1.NUCLEAR SUBMARINE

A. Russian submarine K-152 Nerpa

The K-152 Nerpa (Russian: К-152 «Нерпа») is a 8,140-tonne (8,010-long-ton) Project 971 Shchuka-B (NATO: Akula II) type nuclear-powered attack submarine. Construction was started in 1993, but suspended due to lack of funding. K-152 Nerpa was launched in October 2008 and entered service with the Russian Navy in late 2009. The submarine will eventually be leased to the Indian Navy in 2011 and recommissioned as the INS Chakra. It will be armed with the 300 km (162 nmi; 186 mi)-range 3M-54 Klub nuclear-capable missiles

B. Arihant class submarines [nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarines]

The Arihant class submarines (Sanskrit: अरिहंत:, meaning "Slayer of Enemies") are nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarines[6] being developed for the Indian Navy. The INS Arihant was introduced to the public on July 26, 2009 at a symbolic launch ceremony, which consisted of floating it by flooding the dry dock.[7] The Arihant class is India's first indigenously designed and built nuclear submarine. The class is expected to consist of four vessels to be in commission with the Indian Navy by 2015-2020, with a further four vessels planned to follow on. The Arihant class vessels were designed as a part of India's US$2.9 billion project to design and build nuclear-powered submarines.
The Arihant class may possibly be armed with the existing 750 km K-15 Sagarika SLBM. The under-development 3500 km range K-4 an SLBM version of Agni-III, 5,000-6,000 km range K-5 an SLBM version of Agni-V.

2.Shaurya (missile)

The Shaurya missile (Sanskrit: Valour) is a canister launched Hypersonic surface-to-surface tactical missile developed by the Indian Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO) for use by the Indian Armed Forces. It has a range of between 750 to 1900 km and is capable of carrying a payload of one ton conventional or nuclear warhead.It gives the potential to strike in the short-intermediate range against any adversary.Shaurya can reach a velocity of Mach 6 even at low altitudes. Top DRDO scientist has confirmed this and said that this missile after taking off and reaching a height of about 50 km will start flying like a Hypersonic cruise missile. Once it reaches the target areas it maneuvers towards the target before striking with an accuracy of 20 to 30 m within the target area. The Shaurya missile provides India with a significant second strike capability

3.Aircraft Carriers

A. INS Viraat

INS Viraat (R22) (Sanskrit: विराट, Virāṭ. "Giant" ) is a Centaur class aircraft carrier currently in service with the Indian Navy. INS Viraat is the flagship of the Indian Navy, the oldest carrier in service and one of two aircraft carriers in the Indian Ocean Region.

The Viraat was completed and commissioned in 1959 as the Royal Navy's HMS Hermes, and transferred to India in 1987. In 2009 there were reports that after that year's refit was concluded, India might keep the aircraft carrier in service until 2020. By then, the warship would have completed 60 years of service, over twice its initially estimated sailing life of 25 years. At that time the two Indigenous Aircraft Carriers (IACs) seemed likely to be fully operational, which was the reason to keep Viraat operational until then, according to un-named Navy officers
Aircraft Carries: Up to 30 aircraft, including
British Aerospace Sea Harrier FRS51
Westland Sea King Mk.42B-C
HAL Chetak
HAL Dhruv

B. INS Vikramaditya

INS Vikramaditya (Sanskrit: विक्रमादित्य, Vikramāditya, "Brave as the Sun") is the new name for the former Soviet aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov, which has been procured by India, and is estimated to enter service in the Indian Navy after 2012.The Vikramaditya is a modified Kiev class aircraft carrier built in 1978–1982 at Black Sea Shipyard, Mykolaiv, Ukraine. The ship is presently being extensively refitted at the Sevmash shipyard in Severodvinsk, Arkhangelsk Oblast, Russia.
Aircraft carried:

20-24 Mikoyan MiG-29K
6 HAL Tejas

10 helicopters mix of
Ka-28 helicopters ASW
Ka-31 helicopters AEW [4]
HAL Dhruv

C. INS Vikrant

The Vikrant class aircraft carriers (formerly, the Project 71 "Air Defence Ship" (ADS)) are the first aircraft carriers of the Indian Navy to be designed and built in India. They are being built by Cochin Shipyard Limited (CSL). The Vikrant class carriers will be the largest warships built by CSL. Work on the lead vessel of the class started in 2008, and the keel was laid in February 2009. The first carrier of the class was expected to enter service by 2012-2013.
Aircraft Carries: Up to 30 aircraft, including
British Aerospace Sea Harrier FRS51
Westland Sea King Mk.42B-C
HAL Chetak
HAL Dhruv


D. INS Vishal

IAC2 could have a CATOBAR layout, because India showed interest in the new US Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System . Among the five aircraft for which the Indian Navy has sent Requests for Information (RFI) are the F-35C, the carrier-based variant of the F-35 Lightning II , the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet (made by Boeing for the US Navy), Eurofighter Typhoon (EADS supported by a European consortium), Sukhoi for Sukhoi Su-33, SAAB for Sea Gripen (version of Gripen adapted for carrier operations) and France’s Dassault Aviation for the Rafale.
India’s biggest military hardware supplier, Russia, which was asked for information on the Sukhoi Su-33, has opted out of the race saying it is phasing out the plane, a navy source told The Telegraph. The Indian Navy had originally not sent an RFI to Sweden’s SAAB but the company expressed interest and has sent a request for the naval variant of the Gripen JAS 39.It is likely to be operational by 2018-2020