Shadow of Brutal ’79 War Darkens Vietnam’s View of China Relations

[Lux de Veritas]

I admire Dr. Sun Yat Sen's democratic ideology. He was ahead of his time, especially in a time era and region where growing militarism was uninhibited.

As for his basilar instincts-- namely his anti-Manchu, well, we once wrote articles blaming the defeat of China to Western Powers , Spheres of Influence , as well as the catastrophe China had endured with her war with Japan -- and relegated blame to the Manchus. His view was that in the later years, the old Imperial system was ineffective.

My view is that the Manchus contributed much for China; and the early years of the Manchu Dynasty saw much expansion of Chinese interests in Asia. It was only in the latter years where decadent lifestyle and poor understanding of European Imperialism that led to China's unfortunate decline.

Manchus were the best rulers of China among all China's dynasty.

There is not a single tyrant among Manchus emperor. China under Manchu expanded her land 3x compared to late Ming.

The later years of Manchus is neither decadence compared to historical standards. Just that the challenges faced by the ancient Chinese imperial system has no match of the efficiency of modern western system.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

China is still divided into 2 parts by US . A country that divided by other country can not even be called Regional power.

We will try to keep a balance relations with China and US. We hold the important sea lane in SCS(east sea) to both US and China in our hand and we r strong enough to keep it and use it to get Nuke and get Rich first .

Lol if you refer Taiwan than you just make me laugh, for those losers' eyes China is lost and helpless for not able to re-united with Taiwan... we don't see that way, a short term lost doesn't mean lost for ever, thoughout Chinese history, we lost territorries but we know how to claim it back + another big chunk as bonus.

As for your foreign policy, Vietnam is just a piece of chess using by others powers, and will be disposed when it's worthless. for the rest..just have a nice dream.

 

[Aepsilons]

That's the American in you talking....

No, that's the Japanese in me that is talking. Automatically you assume that just because I'm living in the 'states that I'm going to be totally Americanized. My viewpoints would , i deign to say, represent a large segment of Japanese younger generation in the 20-30's age range.

But will your buddies accept this fact. Abe's current action suggest that he won't treat China the way a nation of this size is to be treated. Respect not servitude. He treats China like the weak nation we were.

Given the security threats and China's reneging of our agreed points as set in the 1978 Treaty of Peace and Friendship between Japan and the People's Republic of China -- we have no course but to question China's intentions.

Manchus were the best rulers of China among all China's dynasty.

There is not a single tyrant among Manchus emperor. China under Manchu expanded her land 3x compared to late Ming.

The later years of Manchus is neither decadence compared to historical standards. Just that the challenges faced by the ancient Chinese imperial system has no match of the efficiency of modern western system.

I agree. The Manchus Emperors have shown much tendency to intervene in the state affairs of their tributary partners. As per the case in waging 4 wars with Hyasinbushin , the Burmese King who had led the invasion of Ayuthaya Kingdom , a long time partner of the Imperial Manchu Dynasty.

Their restructuring of the Chinese Military , by adopting Manchu Banner systems actually allowed Chinese military forces to control a much larger land mass. They also interevened in Tibet, who then was under attack by the Sikh Empire . Manchus then annexed Tibet and this has been the historical basis for inclusion into the PRC as was observed in the mid 20th century.

 

[Lux de Veritas]

No, that's the Japanese in me that is talking. Automatically you assume that just because I'm living in the 'states that I'm going to be totally Americanized. My viewpoints would , i deign to say, represent a large segment of Japanese younger generation in the 20-30's age range.





Given the security threats and China's reneging of our agreed points as set in the 1978 Treaty of Peace and Friendship between Japan and the People's Republic of China -- we have no course but to question China's intentions.



I agree. The Manchus Emperors have shown much tendency to intervene in the state affairs of their tributary partners. As per the case in waging 4 wars with Hyasinbushin , the Burmese King who had led the invasion of Ayuthaya Kingdom , a long time partner of the Imperial Manchu Dynasty.

Their restructuring of the Chinese Military , by adopting Manchu Banner systems actually allowed Chinese military forces to control a much larger land mass. They also interevened in Tibet, who then was under attack by the Sikh Empire . Manchus then annexed Tibet and this has been the historical basis for inclusion into the PRC as was observed in the mid 20th century.

The Ladakh kingdom was a tributary of Lhasa under attack by the Sikh. Even Indians admit that.

The Brave General Zorawar Singh's Conquest of Ladakh and Tibet | Daily Sikh Updates

Then the Indian Singh invaded Tibet.

Qing being the lord of vassal Lhasa will have to intervene behalf of Tibet and was invited by Tibet to intervene.

Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Aepsilons]

Qing being the lord of vassal Lhasa will have to intervene behalf of Tibet and was invited by Tibet to intervene.
Nothing wrong with that.

After the Manchu Bannermen defeated the Sikh forces, both China and the Sikh Empire signed a treaty of non-aggression and restarted trade between the two states. Until Britain forcibly conquered the Punjab and effectively destroyed the Sikh Empire.

 

[Genesis]

No, that's the Japanese in me that is talking. Automatically you assume that just because I'm living in the 'states that I'm going to be totally Americanized. My viewpoints would , i deign to say, represent a large segment of Japanese younger generation in the 20-30's age range.

Given the security threats and China's reneging of our agreed points as set in the 1978 Treaty of Peace and Friendship between Japan and the People's Republic of China -- we have no course but to question China's intentions.

So Japan wants to go Nuclear, what are you going to do if China attacks? Actually launch nuclear weapons? Are you prepared to die for a few islands? I'm not. Neither is America, so while America maybe your biggest backer, they are also China's best guarantee Japan will never so long as you submit, and maybe after, have nuclear weapons.

Cause uncle same won't be so pretty after a few nukes rain down on his face.



This is the stupidity of these arguments, when we were insane in the 70s, and 60s, everything is cool, but now that we are actually a responsible nation that focuses solely on economy and improves militarily as a secondary, suddenly the threat came.

Is the threat we are no longer fighting with sticks, or is the threat really about a few treaties.


We probably won't ever see eye to eye, you have your interests and I have my. What you said means nothing to me, and what I'm saying means about same to you. Just the way it is. Until China can have the US effect where the advantage is so huge, that to even suggest a challenge is the height of stupidity, we probably can't be friends.

It's no accident best Friends UK and US formed around WW1 and especially WW2.

 

[Lux de Veritas]

So Japan wants to go Nuclear, what are you going to do if China attacks? Actually launch nuclear weapons? Are you prepared to die for a few islands? I'm not. Neither is America, so while America maybe your biggest backer, they are also China's best guarantee Japan will never so long as you submit, and maybe after, have nuclear weapons.

Cause uncle same won't be so pretty after a few nukes rain down on his face.



This is the stupidity of these arguments, when we were insane in the 70s, and 60s, everything is cool, but now that we are actually a responsible nation that focuses solely on economy and improves militarily as a secondary, suddenly the threat came.

Is the threat we are no longer fighting with sticks, or is the threat really about a few treaties.


We probably won't ever see eye to eye, you have your interests and I have my. What you said means nothing to me, and what I'm saying means about same to you. Just the way it is. Until China can have the US effect where the advantage is so huge, that to even suggest a challenge is the height of stupidity, we probably can't be friends.

It's no accident best Friends UK and US formed around WW1 and especially WW2.

The country that prevent Japan going nuclear is USA.

 

[NiceGuy]

Lol if you refer Taiwan than you just make me laugh, for those losers' eyes China is lost and helpless for not able to re-united with Taiwan... we don't see that way, a short term lost doesn't mean lost for ever, thoughout Chinese history, we lost territorries but we know how to claim it back + another big chunk as bonus.

As for your foreign policy, Vietnam is just a piece of chess using by others powers, and will be disposed when it's worthless. for the rest..just have a nice dream.

Okay, so in short term China is divided into 2 part by US and can not take TW back bcz its army is corrupted to the core. Chinese Families must Pay up to $16,000 for Kids to Pass Army Entrance Exam , and their kid join the army not for fighting but for taking good salary payment

Chinese Families Pay $16,000 for Kids to Pass Army Entrance Exam
Chinese Families Pay $16,000 for Kids to Pass Army Entrance Exam - Bloomberg

So, it seems like CHina long term strategy suck too. Can not use that kind of soldiers to fight in real war

 

[Aepsilons]

So Japan wants to go Nuclear, what are you going to do if China attacks? Actually launch nuclear weapons? Are you prepared to die for a few islands? I'm not. Neither is America, so while America maybe your biggest backer, they are also China's best guarantee Japan will never so long as you submit, and maybe after, have nuclear weapons.

I don't speak for the Japanese Government, I'm not a politician. Their position is against nuclear armament since Japan is a signatory of the NNPT. I, as a private citizen, believe that Japan should have the capability at least.

 

[Jlaw]

Our Govt. is against China, but we r against China in our own way, we dont use military forces to push China oil rig out until US let VN make nuke bomb.

Thats true, our army is one of the best army of the world, we defeated mighty US army while China still divided into 2 parts by US till now, so defeat corrupted and poor discipline PLA is always much easier


China is just a pawn, divided into 2 part by US , so act carefully or VNese will burn China companies and beat up Chinese again

Vietnam fake news. Vietnam lies. Vietnam government not legit. Your economy will crash to garbage bin soon tsking Dung and Nguyens down toilet drain.

 

[Lux de Veritas]

I don't speak for the Japanese Government, I'm not a politician. Their position is against nuclear armament since Japan is a signatory of the NNPT. I, as a private citizen, believe that Japan should have the capability at least.

Japan has already has it. Nuclear bomb is no longer a physics problem but an engineering one. Even deadbeat N Korea has it.

South Korea, Germany are in the same league as Japan.

 

[Jlaw]

China understands that with a World Class SUPER POWER status come some International Responsibilities.

Vietnam has more to gain by having a good relations with China rather than having a Confrontational Attitude.

When you have a body of a midget, heart of a lion, that's vietnam. Shorty will get beat up again.

 

[NiceGuy]

Japan has already has it. Nuclear bomb is no longer a physics problem but an engineering one. Even deadbeat N Korea has it.

South Korea, Germany are in the same league as Japan.

Its the problem of sanction, NK can have it coz they can live like zombie under US sanction, can u guys live like that ??

 

[sweetgrape]

This war is more about Deng Xiaoping consolidating power than anything else. Many people think that Deng was the supremo after Mao died in 1976, and that was wrong.

Even in 1979, Deng was more like a first among equal. Power really got consolidated under Deng after he started the 1979 Sino-Vietnam war, using the war to rally the people and purging the army.

China should say sorry to Vietnam.

"Good" logic, but who vietnam should say sorry to?

She will not. They even have argument(s) for their support of the murderous Khmer Rouge ! In fact, one of the pretext for their invasion of Vietnam was to support the Khmer Rouge during Vietnamese Liberation of Cambodia from the Khmer Rouge.

Very funny, A Japanese here teach other how to appologize, hehe.

 

[Lux de Veritas]

Its the problem of sanction, NK can have it coz they can live like zombie under US sanction, can u guys live like that ??

Iran is going for "Japan option".

Germany and S Korea also have the option.

Japan is able to assemble a bomb within few months or even weeks even though she does not have a bomb.

"Good" logic, but who vietnam should say sorry to?

Men not Jesus, all men have sin. But some sin like sending divisions, scotch earth people, is worse than others.

China repent.