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Shadow of Brutal ’79 War Darkens Vietnam’s View of China Relations

Then why do you stay there occupied Cambodia for 10 years?
Why do you have to fight the Khmer Rouge even though they take refugee inside our land?

- Clear the Khmer Rouge and then handle the case to UN security force. Let UN security force handle ramnent Khmer Rouge force ,within 1 year
- Clear the Khmer Rouge and then return the country to the King of Cambodia. Let her King handle ramnent of Khmer Rouge force, within 1 year
- Clear the Khmer Rouge and let ASEAN countries find the security force, within 1 year

There are tons of way to do it. Those tons of way, however, do not maximize VN power.
VN choose the way, which worry us the most. VN choose the way that maximize VN power.
That is why VN is guilty from the point of The world's view.

Do you really know what Khmer Rouge did to Vietnamese, Cambodian people?
After that, a seat in UN still for them ...
Do you think UN good for Cambodian people or not?

Thai host Khmer Rouge by your merciful or by other powers funded ?
Khmer Rouge hit back Cambodia from Thailand,
Without Thai bases, do you think they could last for months ?
Vietnam has the official request from Cambodia govt for staying there.

Vietnam actually received the bad view to liberate Cambodia from Khmer Rouge regime.
Hun Sen said, no one can stands those bad to help Cambodia, except Vietnam.

1 year late, much more than million deaths ...
Vietnam stay there 10 years, any good for Vietnam?
No, we have loss more for strengthen nowaday Cambodia.
We have no more land.
 
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Vietnam stay there 10 years, any good for Vietnam?
No, we have loss more for strengthen nowaday Cambodia.
We have no more land.

you illegally occupied cambodia hoping to steal their land. china made sure you annamese reaped only pain. germany's invasion of russia ended up much worse, but this is no proof that germans invaded russia with a saintly purpose, no? that annamese had to eventually withdraw from cambodia in humiliation and in a strategically much weakened state doesn't expulcate annamese crimes in cambodia; rather, it speaks of the valiant and effective policing effort china made in its own sphere of influence.

kudos to PLA for making those annam monkeys suffer and pay!
 
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you illegally occupied cambodia hoping to steal their land. china made sure you annamese reaped only pain. germany's invasion of russia ended up much worse, but this is no proof that germans invaded russia with a saintly purpose, no? that annamese had to eventually withdraw from cambodia in humiliation and in a strategically much weakened state doesn't expulcate annamese crimes in cambodia; rather, it speaks of the valiant and effective policing effort china made in its own sphere of influence.

kudos to PLA for making those annam monkeys suffer and pay!

bye bye Cambodian people,
Phnom_Penh_1989.jpg


BBC

Dark memories of Cambodia's killing spree



In the end, the Khmer Rouge were quietly toppled
Exactly 30 years ago, a coalition of Cambodian and Vietnamese troops forced Pol Pot and his followers from power - after a four-year reign which left as many as two million people dead.
But, as the BBC's Guy De Launey reports, Victory Day is not universally celebrated in Cambodia.


Even in 1979 it was a strange kind of victory.

There was no hero's welcome for the conquering troops. But nor was there a nervous population, fearful about the intentions of the incoming army. Because Phnom Penh was almost completely deserted.

The Khmer Rouge had forced millions of city-dwellers to march to the countryside when it took power in April 1975. In the intervening years only a small number of party workers were allowed to live in the capital, and they had fled as the Vietnamese-backed forces approached.

Vann Nath was one of the few Phnom Penh residents to witness the final hours of Pol Pot's murderous government. As an inmate of the notorious Tuol Sleng prison, however, his was not the most comfortable vantage point.



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I still don't know why I was allowed to live
Vann Nath, standing in front of a picture he painted of Tuol Sleng prison
"When the Vietnamese arrived there was a group of us locked in one room in Tuol Sleng. I heard some gunshots, outside on the main street," he remembers.

Soon after, with no little disbelief, he walked free. "In all there were seven of us who survived Tuol Sleng. To this day I still don't know why I was allowed to live."

Vann Nath had beaten formidable odds. Around 15,000 prisoners had passed through Tuol Sleng, but only a handful survived. Many died during the prison's systematic torture process; the rest were bludgeoned to death in the so-called killing fields on the outskirts of Phnom Penh.

Two million dead

Under the Khmer Rouge, tens of thousands shared a similar fate, executed as "enemies of the revolution", often on the flimsiest of pretexts. Others perished on the gruelling journey from the cities to rural villages, or starved to death while working as forced labourers on collective farms.

As many as two million Cambodians are thought to have died because of the policies of Pol Pot's government and the actions of Khmer Rouge members.



_45351321_000103253-1.jpg

Skulls litter the Khmer Rouge's "killing fields"
The current government says the end of that era is a cause for celebration. Prime Minister Hun Sen was among the Cambodian troops who joined Vietnamese forces to oust the Khmer Rouge.
In the run-up to the anniversary, the governing Cambodian People's Party has called 7 January a "historical day" and a "new birthday" for the country.

The CPP is planning to mark the 30th anniversary in grand style. To ensure maximum attendance at a rally in Phnom Penh's Olympic Stadium, thousands of children from nearby schools will each receive cash for food and drink, as well as T-shirts and caps in CPP colours.

'Invasion'

The party political nature of the celebrations is an indication that not all Cambodians acknowledge 7 January as a day of liberation. Opposition leaders sometimes refer to it as a Vietnamese invasion.



_45351320_000035142-1.jpg

Vietnam has had a long influence on Cambodian affairs
Pen Sovann feels that more deeply than most. He was one of the founders of the anti-Khmer Rouge front, and became prime minister in 1981 before a spectacular fall from grace.
Disagreements with the government's Vietnamese sponsors earned him first the sack, then a 10-year spell in a Hanoi prison.

"It was liberation at first. They couldn't stand and watch their neighbour's house burn, so they provided the water to help put out the fire," he says now.

"But I wasn't happy that they were trying to exert their influence over Cambodia. They were getting stronger and stronger, and even now they have more influence than the current Cambodian leaders."

Others, however, are happy to embrace 7 January as a day of liberation from the Khmer Rouge, whatever they feel about the decade-long presence of Vietnamese troops in Cambodia and the on-going close relations between the two countries.

It can hardly compare to the years of madness which had seen Khmer turn against Khmer.

Memory

For many, more than anything else, the anniversary provides an opportunity to keep alive the memory of what happened in the Pol Pot era.



o.gif

_45351276_pumchantinie_226_bbc.jpg

They ask me, 'Why, why why?' and I tell them I don't know why they did this - to our family, to Cambodian people
Pum Chantinie
Pum Chantinie is now the secretary general of the Cambodian Red Cross. Along with the surviving members of her family, she walked hundreds of kilometres from the countryside back to Phnom Penh in January 1979, pushing a hand-made cart - only to discover their old house wrecked and surrounded by barbed wire.
"Our family gathers and we tell stories about our lives during the Khmer Rouge regime to our young generation," she says. "They ask me, 'Why, why why?' and I tell them I don't know why they did this - to our family, to Cambodian people."

Most Cambodians are too young to remember the Pol Pot era, or even the years of civil war which followed. But the anniversary should be followed, within months, by another reminder of what happened. The first trial at the Khmer Rouge Tribunal may start as early as March.

In the dock, charged with crimes against humanity, will be Vann Nath's former jailer, the man best known as Comrade Duch. All the indications are that he is willing to reveal what he knows about how the Khmer Rouge leadership made the decisions which led to so many deaths.

That may not be a cause for celebration. But it may at least answer some of the questions that people like Pum Chantinie have struggled with for so many years.
 
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I saw that is not any betrayal at all.
1. China went ahead to follow USA since 1972
2. At the time, Soviet Union keep supporting Vietnam for decades.
3. Defense means not aiming to any countries.

Different perspective obviously, but if you think the defense treaty between USSR & Vietnam does not effect China adversely, you are fooling yourself. China's realignment with the US was to counter balance USSR which at the time was far bigger a threat than the US. Considering China's support for Vietnam during its war against French & US was much greater and more direct than that from the USSR, China does consider Vietnam's action a major betrayal.
 
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you illegally occupied cambodia hoping to steal their land. china made sure you annamese reaped only pain. germany's invasion of russia ended up much worse, but this is no proof that germans invaded russia with a saintly purpose, no? that annamese had to eventually withdraw from cambodia in humiliation and in a strategically much weakened state doesn't expulcate annamese crimes in cambodia; rather, it speaks of the valiant and effective policing effort china made in its own sphere of influence.

kudos to PLA for making those annam monkeys suffer and pay!
Now I bet the next post, he's going to post something irrelevant with a stupid title like, "Bye Bye Cambodia" or something to that affect.
 
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Do you really know what Khmer Rouge did to Vietnamese, Cambodian people?
After that, a seat in UN still for them ...
Do you think UN good for Cambodian people or not?

Thai host Khmer Rouge by your merciful or by other powers funded ?
Khmer Rouge hit back Cambodia from Thailand,
Without Thai bases, do you think they could last for months ?
Vietnam has the official request from Cambodia govt for staying there.

Vietnam actually received the bad view to liberate Cambodia from Khmer Rouge regime.
Hun Sen said, no one can stands those bad to help Cambodia, except Vietnam.

1 year late, much more than million deaths ...
Vietnam stay there 10 years, any good for Vietnam?
No, we have loss more for strengthen nowaday Cambodia.
We have no more land.

Why did not VN return Cambodia country to Cambodian King, bring in UN security force, and leave within 1 year?
Please answer this in full essay showing VN true intention. Later I will reply urs.
 
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Why did not VN return Cambodia country to Cambodian King, bring in UN security force, and leave within 1 year?
Please answer this in full essay showing VN true intention. Later I will reply urs.

Invasion of a sovereign state with the pretext of "saving the population from a bad dictator" is one that we are all familiar with today, and a comical one as best. Even assuming that was the intent, such intent is one of colonial mentality. Not surprising though as many Vietnamese consider themselve to the rightful heir of the French Indo-China colony, and try to exert control over its neighbors.
 
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VN true intention was to create a country as as large as French Indochina country that include Lao, Cambodia and Vietnam, with Vietnam as overlord state. Vn may include Thailand if we were weak.

-Thailand stood as the last Domino during Colonial Era. We waged intelligence war, diplomatic war, politics, Naval war, Air battles against the Frence.
Vietnam was a colony. No Vietnam country, only French Indochina
- Thailand survived Japanese invasion during WW2. Alliance with Japan and declared war with England.
Vietnam was still a colony.
- Thailand survive WW2 with minimal damage, and no ally occupation force. Nuked Japan lost the war and got occupied until very today. Japan became vassal states of US. Thailand is still an independent country
China was civil wars, China still in a long period of warfare for 50 years.
- Thailand stood as the last Domino in the Cold war. Communist idology try to revolt the country from inside, and communist countries try to wage war from outside.
China communist famines
VN in constant warfare, drive own people to became boat people
Lao loss the King
Cambodia lost population under the Khmer Rouge communist Eutopia idology.

We stood as the Last Domino for a long time. Thats why the King is to be saluted. Thats what even Thaksin cannot do.
 
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@somsak

I will reply to your post later, when I'm at home. Currently checking PDF via my iPhone. Am at class / lecture.

Thanks,


Kap kohn na krap !
 
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Different perspective obviously, but if you think the defense treaty between USSR & Vietnam does not effect China adversely, you are fooling yourself. China's realignment with the US was to counter balance USSR which at the time was far bigger a threat than the US. Considering China's support for Vietnam during its war against French & US was much greater and more direct than that from the USSR, China does consider Vietnam's action a major betrayal.

In 1969 China went ahead to create a war with Soviet Union and lost that war.
China always fear someday Soviet Union revenge.
They always fear.
 
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Why did not VN return Cambodia country to Cambodian King, bring in UN security force, and leave within 1 year?
Please answer this in full essay showing VN true intention. Later I will reply urs.

@somsak : Vietnam now send troops to be in UNSC. Is it better ?
My belief is Vietnam backed Hun Sen is always a better choice than China-backed Pol Pot.
Vietnam created more Cambodian consumers for China products, while China-backed Pol Pot narrow the market of those.

While unable to do the best, do a better thing should be still appreciated, am I right?
 
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Don't forget that the Vietnamese boat people are Vietnamese citizen.

According to the logic of the Vietnamese, the systematic persecution of their own people would justify China to invade Vietnam, occupy and stay in Vietnam for decade, install a puppet government in Vietnam, and remove the current Vietnamese government from UN and give the UN seat to the puppet government.
 
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Don't forget that the Vietnamese boat people are Vietnamese citizen.

According to the logic of the Vietnamese, the systematic persecution of their own people would justify China to invade Vietnam, occupy and stay in Vietnam for decade, install a puppet government in Vietnam, and remove the current Vietnamese government from UN and give the UN seat to the puppet government.
Don't forget that China also used the same reason to attack Vietnam in 1979, namely "Vietnam mistreatment of Hoa race".
 
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Don't forget that China also used the same reason to attack Vietnam in 1979, namely "Vietnam mistreatment of Hoa race".
Yes, China gave you a spanking/lesson.
 
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