Shabqadar: 87 killed, dozen injured in twin explosions

[53fd]

Dude the allies of northern alliance are NATO and ISAF,india has noo link with Northern alliance

Northern Alliance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

northern alliance
Established 1992
- Disestablished 2001

Then clearly both of these articles are wrong:

The Himalayan Times : India looks to revive Northern Alliance with Russia, Iran - Detail News : Nepal News Portal

India shuffles its Northern card - Hindustan Times

 

[Areesh]

Then in that case, there is nothing to be done; just sit back and enjoy the show in the "killing fields".
While all the while praying fervently that the next guy to be killed is not you or someone near and dear to you.
While this kind of threads keep appearing on PDF.
And people say RIP.

That's why I didn't said RIP on this thread. Enough saying RIP and all that. Enough living a life of a dog, it is time to kill the dogs.

 

[Ajaxpaul]

Cant believe so much bad sh!t can happen on such a beautiful day: Miles Logan.

I completely agree. My condolences to the dead.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

RIP to innocent..
Pakistan should choose the side,Terrorist or rest of world, being on both side is dangerous.

Pakistan has made its side very clear; we are on Pakistan's side first.

and we are fighting a full fledged war against terrorists and miscreants --based on priorities, based on deliberations on who poses biggest threat to Pakistan, based on our threat assesments.


to think otherwise, you are naiive and sadly misinformed by malicious propaganda. And if you read the news properly and comprehend it, you would see that the terrorists are retaliating against Pakistan over OBL operation. So on one hand, some elements in the west raises its eyebrows at us (while indians wag their tails of course) and on the other hand the terrorists have us in their cross-hairs when according to news stories we did not even send our forces to attack the Abbotabad residence.


you have a lot of nerve to ''pose'' this ''choice'' for Pakistan when we made it long ago. Civilians, military, and private property have been attacked. And we are attacking back; but we wont do it on your terms, we wont do it on the terms of others. This is indeed our war. I personally don't think it used to be war, but now since it has been spilled over into our neck of the woods naturally we must act.


and let me be very frank....military -- FC, PA etc. are more legitimate targets for our enemy. Women, children and other civilians, Mosques and other public places are not.





إِنَّا لِلّهِ وَإِنَّـا إِلَيْهِ رَاجِعونَ

 

[Perceptron]

Pakistan played a part in training the Mujahideen to fight the Soviets, not creating them. The creation was done by the Madrassahs with Saudi Arabia's Wahabi ideology, & the US that gave the money to create these Madrassahs. They also gave Pakistan money to train the Mujahideen. I don't know what is so difficult to understand here. No one is saying the ISI didn't play a role, it played a role in training them, but the Mujahideen themselves were created by Saudi Arabia & the US.

The US never had a role in the idealogical formation of the Mujahideen ; The primary role went to the ISI in recruiting cadets and to Jami'at-e 'Ulema-e Islam (JUI) in brainwashing them with the Deobandi form of teaching, which even though was formed in UP, took the extremist formed once these groups migrated to the Land of the Pure. So please do not obfuscate USA's role here ; the USA provided weapons, ISI provided with training and the brainwashing was done by Pakistani fundamentalists ; Saudi stuck to financing here with petro-dollars.

Now comes the interesting part ; After the Soviet withdrawal circa 1989, it was the ISI around 1994 who chose the fundamentalist factions of the Mujahideen as a precusor to the current Taliban to guard trade routes from Pakistan to CAR, which eventually led them to wrest control of Kandahar and Kabul. Now what's my point here ? The Mujahideen had a common threat until the late 80s which was defeating the Soviets and driving them out of Afghanistan, but it was PAKISTAN that later channeled them to fight their wars for their quest of "Strategic Depth". This means that Pakistan was the primary reason in uniting the various factions that form the current cancer called Taliban which is blowing your country apart.

This is perhaps what most of the members are trying to emphasize, do not dwell on the past ; Your past has led to the current economic and geopolitical ruin that Pakistan has found itself in. All your current problems lie primarily due to your (Pakistan's) complicity in creating the fundamentalist factions of the Taliban while USA and Saudi were largely in the shadows.

 

[architect_cobb]

It points to the attacks inside Afghanistan. This is about the Northern Alliance funding terrorism inside Pakistan:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...-alliance-ana-funding-terrorism-pakistan.html

give me the casuality figures

Hedging: investment position intended to offset potential losses that may be incurred by a companion investment

Investment: Pakistan's alleged support for the Taliban.
Potential losses: Terror activities inside Pakistan
Companion investment: India's support for terror activities for the Northern Alliance

Hahaha OK premise of hedging is that investment and companion investment are made by the same investor. So your whole perspective is flawed. Not to mention Northern alliance was not involved in any terror activities in Pak. it was only your regional ambitions that were causing rifts between you and them.

 

[53fd]

The US never had a role in the idealogical formation of the Mujahideen

It had a role for funding the creation of Madrassahs that provided the ideological ammunition & indoctrinated them into the Mujahideen. The Wahabi ideology itself came from Saudi Arabia.

The primary role went to the ISI in recruiting cadets and to Jami'at-e 'Ulema-e Islam (JUI) in brainwashing them with the Deobandi form of teaching, which even though was formed in UP, took the extremist formed once these groups migrated to the Land of the Pure.

False, the indoctrination itself was done by the Salafi/Wahabi ideology that came from Saudi Arabia; the indoctrination didn't come from Deobandi ideology from the JUI. You clearly have no understanding on the differences between Salafi & Deobandi ideology, there are huge fundamental differences between the two. Learn the differences between the two & then get back to me, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

the USA provided weapons, ISI provided with training and the brainwashing was done by Pakistani fundamentalists ; Saudi stuck to financing here with petro-dollars.

US gave the money for creating the Madrassahs (that created the Mujahideen), Saudi Arabia gave ideological ammunition (Salafi ideology) for creating the Mujahideen, Pakistan got the money from the US to train the Mujahideen against the Soviets. So you are completely wrong on all levels. But you don't even know the difference between Salafi & Deobandi ideology, so I can't expect any better from you.

Now comes the interesting part ; After the Soviet withdrawal circa 1989, it was the ISI around 1994 who chose the fundamentalist factions of the Mujahideen as a precusor to the current Taliban to guard trade routes from Pakistan to CAR, which eventually led them to wrest control of Kandahar and Kabul.

It was India that had supported Najibullah inside Afghanistan before against the Mujahideen, & then Dostum & the Northern Alliance later in 1996. It was Pakistan that initially supported Masood & Hekmatyar against India's support for Dostum. As I said, India wanted its strategic depth inside Afghanistan by supporting the Northern Alliance.

 

[53fd]

give me the casuality figures

Give me casualty figures about how many Afghans have been killed by the Taliban to this day.

Hahaha OK premise of hedging is that investment and companion investment are made by the same investor. So your whole perspective is flawed. Not to mention Northern alliance was not involved in any terror activities in Pak. it was only your regional ambitions that were causing rifts between you and them.

I was trying to explain it to you in terms of an example before, just like I used the 'mother' & 'child' analogy for the Mujahideen & the groups today, along with the 'father' the US. There are some inconsistencies with my 'mother', 'child' & 'father' analogies as well, let's start talking about that too. I just used those analogies to explain my point to you. Sorry if my analogies don't fit exactly, but you clearly see my point.

 

[53fd]

It was only your regional ambitions that were causing rifts between you and them.

If you are indeed a Pakistani, why did you use 'your' instead of 'our'? And you clearly don't know that the NAFDEC cinema in Islamabad was closed down over 10 years ago. Hmmm....

 

[T-Faz]

The US never had a role in the idealogical formation of the Mujahideen ; The primary role went to the ISI in recruiting cadets and to Jami'at-e 'Ulema-e Islam (JUI) in brainwashing them with the Deobandi form of teaching, which even though was formed in UP, took the extremist formed once these groups migrated to the Land of the Pure. So please do not obfuscate USA's role here ; the USA provided weapons, ISI provided with training and the brainwashing was done by Pakistani fundamentalists ; Saudi stuck to financing here with petro-dollars.

You need to revisit history and learn that the Deobandi's were always rigidly regressive in their views and violent from the onset. Their leaders are famously known for supporting the Congress and some of these same people moved to Pakistan, Mufti Mahmood was one such congress Mullah who later moved to Pakistan and is the father of JUI's current head Maulana Fazlur Rahman. The Deobandi's in general opposed the idea of Pakistan and they were famous for their allegations and tirades against the Muslim League, especially Jinnah.

How can they become extremist all of a sudden when they initiated their violent movements from the start, their first violent campaign in Pakistan was the 1953 agitations against the Ahmadi's which the army quelled violently.

The ideology taught to the Mujahideen was a mix of Deobandi and Wahabi/Salafi ideology. The most extreme examples and variants were used to create the most violent of all ideology. The Taliban are known for being ardent Deobandi's and they follow the same path albeit more violently.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

b) Get help of USA, USSR, Israel and India to counter these extremist. USA and Israel have good technical capabilities, India and Israel have experience of fighting these baboons, Russia has Guts to fight these ppl..
...

someone wanna get this guy a time-machine?

 

[Perceptron]

It had a role for funding the creation of Madrassahs that provided the ideological ammunition & indoctrinated them into the Mujahideen. The Wahabi ideology itself came from Saudi Arabia.

The Madrassas were setup as a brainchild of the Pakistani administration and the ISI mainly in and around Peshawar ; The funding though came from CIA and Saudi Arabia, were setup in Pakistani soil.

False, the indoctrination itself was done by the Salafi/Wahabi ideology that came from Saudi Arabia; the indoctrination didn't come from Deobandi ideology from the JUI. You clearly have no understanding on the differences between Salafi & Deobandi ideology, there are huge fundamental differences between the two. Learn the differences between the two & then get back to me, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

Let me ask you this ; How many factions formed the Mujahideen during the Soviet invasion ? Answer me this and i will say which faction followed what indoctrination, and which led to them forming what ?

US gave the money for creating the Madrassahs (that created the Mujahideen), Saudi Arabia gave ideological ammunition (Salafi ideology) for creating the Mujahideen, Pakistan got the money from the US to train the Mujahideen against the Soviets. So you are completely wrong on all levels. But you don't even know the difference between Salafi & Deobandi ideology, so I can't expect any better from you.

Wrong, USA had no hand in it except funding the mujahideen in the form of weapons ; CIA, would provide funds, some weapons and general supervision of support for the mujaheddin rebels, but day-to-day operations and direct contact with the mujaheddin was left to the ISI. And the TTP which is blowing people apart in FATA now, is primarily Deobandi with the exception of LeT. What's your point on the difference between the Salfafist and Deobandi ideologies ?

It was India that had supported Najibullah inside Afghanistan before against the Mujahideen, & then Dostum & the Northern Alliance later in 1996. It was Pakistan that initially supported Masood & Hekmatyar against India's Dostum. As I said, India wanted its strategic depth inside Afghanistan by supporting the Northern Alliance.

What support did India provide to Najibullah apart from moral backing ? And what support did India provide to the NA ? Did it provide weapons, training and setting up of rival fundamentalist ideologies to counter the Taliban ? No, it just went with the group that could be counted upon to provide Democracy and stability in Afghanistan ; And Pakistan which has lived on 4 out of 7 days of the week under Military dictatorship, provided logistical and ideological support to the Taliban.

 

[Roby]

RIP .

 

[RAZA SAHI]

80 more martyrs
RIP to the FALLEN

 

[killeragent]

RIP to deceased...

Its difficult to defeat all terrorists in ine day or year..

Now looking back in time, i think india has done great efforts for the period of 15 years.

Pakistani people shouldn't give up hope, instead strengthen themself against the fight...Keep Fighting...Keep Moving..You will succeed indeed and that success will be real gratitude for the sufferers of this war and attacks