Several dead in attack on Pakistani Shias

[Capt.Popeye]

You can call me all the names & labels you want, it just reflects on what you are. What are you looking for: sympathy? You won't be getting sympathy by calling Pakistan 'K@njar Kh@na'. Are you looking for more points & thanks from Indian members? You're doing a good job, but please have a little bit of dignity & self-respect. You are calling the nation k@njar kh@na when you should be looking at the specific elements that are causing problems within Pakistan, rather than labeling the whole nation in one color. Again, I'm very disappointed in your defeatist attitude. You don't wish to be part of the solution, but crib & complain for gaining the sympathy of others. There are many like you in Pakistan already.

Whatever you may think of T-Faz, is your business and your right. All that I have to say is that I have only discerned that T-Faz is sensitive enough to understand that there are some very serious problems extant and he is passionate enough to voice or articulate his deep anguish about that. That is the only thing in his posts that I want to admire and thank. Even as a person who happened to have been born in a country called India, I do not want to thank any person who demeans or works to destroy Pakistan. Pakistan has as much reason to exist on this planet as India does. Make no mistake about that. And as a corollary, every Pakistani citizen has an inalienable right to pursue a peaceful and prosperous life and livelihood. Do you think that these recurring incidents will allow that to happen? Or that the perpetrators of these heinous acts should be allowed to function unhindered? Do you believe that the grave damage done to the near and dear ones of the victims is small? Don't you think that the people who cause all this to happen should be hunted down and exterminated without any quarter?
Or do you believe that should be talked about only in hushed whispers or in "dangling conversations with superficial tears" in drawing rooms; or worse still, swept aside or below the carpet, all in the name of patriotism or whatever? Is'nt it better to come out ' loud and clear' about such serious issues?
And never mind that the neighbour gets to hear about. The neighbour can go and square up to his own problems. Because they are is own just as your problems are your own. That is what T-Faz has done, to square up to his own problems, And that is what I admire. I can offer no sympathy, because he neither seeks nor needs sympathy. I can only offer him and you my goodwill and hopes.
If you can close ranks with T-Faz and anybody else who wishes to attack all the overwhelming issues; then not just my thanks but my acclaim will head your way.
Btw, though I was born in a certain country; I am a still a Citizen of the World.

 

[T-Faz]

No people like you are the reason Pakistan is the way it is.
You now don't even have the balls to paste the flag of your country below your avatar.You are a shame.Why you change the flag in the time of crises.Ii goes to show your thinking.
COWARD

You are the coward you Jamaat-e-Islami scum.

You cowards have destroyed the country since the day your leaders took money from US.

Your coward party is the source of all extremism and terrorism.

Shame on you fckinng Islamist scum, you will get what is coming to you.

 

[53fd]

My question is simple, when your closed ones died, what did you do to make sure that nothing of that sort happens again?

We wished that the perpetrators who shot my father's two brothers in the head would be brought to justice, & such kind of extremism wouldn't be on display again. We did not condemn Karachi or Pakistan for this, neither did we condemn all the peaceful people that live here. But we wished the terrorists be brought to justice.

After all you are content with the same policies we have in place that allowed that to happen, so what is your collective response?

No I'm not, but what I express here publicly in front of people from other countries may not be exactly what I express privately. There is a difference between talking things in a public & a private arena.

How can the killing on the basis of sect and ethnicity continue to happen if something was supposedly done to change national policy.

By trying to talk patiently & rationally, even to the K@nj@rs as you call them, not lashing out at others.

All I want to know is that what change should occur for all this havoc to stop?

You need to make your voice heard, rationally, not by expressing a defeatist attitude like you are. No one gets swayed by that.

I read that you support the use of religion in this state so it seems that you are content with the way things work in this country.

I believe in the peaceful majority Barelvi influence that this country has (which is unfortunately sliding down), where Shias, Christians, Ahmadis, Parsis everyone lived peacefully together pre-1947. Do you know that it is the rising influence of Deobandism in Pakistan, the followers of which had been against th creation of Pakistan, that eventually led to discrimination against the Ahmadis?

This is what the Dar Uloom Deoband has to say about Ahmedis:

(Fatwa 332=307/N)

The Mirzais (Qadyanis, Ahmadiyas) are kafir. This issue is agreed upon by the Muslim Ummah.

These books may be useful: (1) Radd-e-Qadyaniat ke Zarrin Usool (2) Suboot Hazir Hain (3) Muhazarat of Darul Uloom on Qadyanism

Allah (Subhana Wa Ta'ala) knows Best

Darul Ifta,
Darul Uloom Deoband

This is the stuff they had to say about Shias, which is where Shia "kafir" started coming from:

Darul Ifta Deoband India

As a Shia who has lived in Punjab with Barelvis, I have seen what they are like. Shias, Ahmedis, Christians have lived very peacefully under Barelvis for hundreds of years. When Ahmadis got killed, I protested for them here on this forum, & called their murderers terrorists. Same thing for Shias & others. It is unfortunately this Deoabandi influence that is pervading through Pakistani society & that's what is causing problems within Pakistan right now.

There is a constant debate going on between a secular state or Islam as a state religion for Bangladesh, yet you don't see people using the words 'K@nj@rs' for others they don't share the same opinion with. Using the language you have does not serve a good purpose for anyone on this forum.

 

[53fd]

T-Faz, if you think you know me, please read this note I wrote on FB the day I realized OBL was found in Pakistan:

Today I feel like a part of me has died, a part of Pakistan has died. I am lost for words, I have nothing to say. The inexplicable has just happened. I'm still telling myself that its not possible, that it has to be a dream. But I know it's not. I'm in total shock & disbelief, numb & frozen. I thought Libya was bad & couldn't be worse anywhere else, I was wrong. There is nothing that can be worse than this. The unimaginable has just happened. I think I've lost my faith in governments. There's an evil plan in place, & we're all just little pawns, totally helpless. I feel we've reached a stage in today, whatever country one goes to, it's almost become a crime to be a Muslim & a Pakistani. Muslims are responsible for that. Today has shook me really badly, what I've believed for, in my love for Pakistan.

I can never stop loving Pakistan, but today my faith has been shaken. Hopefully this is one of those bad days we all see in our lives, because I know I can never stop loving Pakistan. I feel very alone today, feel trapped in my body, and there's no one with me that can understand what I'm going in my head. I feel many of us are feeling like that: empty. May God save the Pakistani nation & its wonderful people, they did not deserve this. Normally I say, let's hope for the best, but I don't even know if there's even any point hoping for the best: lost hope is always the most difficult to restore. We need a lot more than hope to bring ourselves back from the dead. I'm very very worried about the times ahead, but some people are very optimistic, & I hope I'm wrong. Some people are saying this is the end of the WOT & Pakistan's involvement in it, & if that is true, that would be welcome news. Fingers crossed at my end. Still optimistic on some levels that this could all turn out for the best.

I won't be slandering you & use abusive language that you used for me, but please stop acting like you know me. That's all.

 

[pak-marine]

No people like you are the reason Pakistan is the way it is.
You now don't even have the balls to paste the flag of your country below your avatar.You are a shame.Why you change the flag in the time of crises.Ii goes to show your thinking.
COWARD

he isnt a coward .. he is being honest for once showing his disgust openly to the k@njar giri we as a nation has adopted. He has decided to come out in open & call spade a spade .... its all our (Pakistanis) fault we kept quiet over the years over the injustices and wrong policies of army... today whole nation is suffering ....
Enough is enough

 

[Capt.Popeye]

^^^
Thanks, Bilahaider for posting what you wrote on FB. T-Faz is no less sensitive or concerned for your motherland than you are. Please close ranks (and there must be many more who will unhesitatingly join you) and confront the issues squarely. I am certain that you will find T-Faz a comrade second to none. I wish you well.

 

[53fd]

^^^
Thanks, Bilahaider for posting what you wrote on FB. T-Faz is no less sensitive or concerned for your motherland than you are. Please close ranks (and there must be many more who will unhesitatingly join you) and confront the issues squarely. I am certain that you will find T-Faz a comrade second to none. I wish you well.

Listen, I appreciate what T-Faz has to say, I really do. I think he has a lot of good things to say that will definitely make Pakistan better. But the way he says certain things ('fvcking terrorist, Jamaat-e-Islami scum, K@njar Kh@na, delusional fool, accomplice with terrorists') is less than pleasant, & that is where I disagree with him. He has the right to express whatever he wants, but he should try to be inclusive of everyone here, & reacting badly/emotionally does not serve any good purpose. I called Shahbaz Bhatti a martyr, I called his killer terrorists. I called Salman Taseer a martyr, a true Muslim for supporting the oppressed. But I believe in expressing my views peacefully/calmly, even if the other person is insulting me, because that is my best chance of getting heard by others. Peace.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Listen, I appreciate what T-Faz has to say, I really do. I think he has a lot of good things to say that will definitely make Pakistan better. But the way he says certain things is less than pleasant, & that is where I disagree with. He has the rights to express whatever he wants, but he should try to be inclusive of everyone here, & reacting badly/emotionally does not serve any good purpose. I called Shahbaz Bhatti a martyr, I called his killer terrorists. I called Salman Taseer a martyr, a true Muslim for supporting the oppressed. But I believe in expressing my views peacefully/calmly, even if the other person is insulting me, because that is my best chance of getting heard by others. Peace.

I understand and appreciate your POV. Don't get diverted by his expression. See the deep and intense feelings. Make that work for a a collective good. And there are many others too. On this forum and outside. Even on the streets. Close ranks, work together. "HALLA BOL".

 

[unicorn]

You are the coward you Jamaat-e-Islami scum.

You cowards have destroyed the country since the day your leaders took money from US.

Your coward party is the source of all extremism and terrorism.

Shame on you fckinng Islamist scum, you will get what is coming to you.

So now you have predicted that I am a jamait islami scum.Let me tell you something you moron you are disgracing your community you don't know any thing about Jesus you never read Bible but you always give your expert opinion about Islam.There are some friend of mine who are christians and they never think like you do about these stupid and pathethic things about different people in Pakistan. I will not waste my time as I have did it the past. Keep posting your K@njar Khana like things.Above all you have change the Flag and it means you are not one of us.You are not a Pakistani.Never change that flag again.Keep in whatever colour you wish but not green and white.

---------- Post added at 03:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:55 PM ----------

You are the coward you Jamaat-e-Islami scum.

You cowards have destroyed the country since the day your leaders took money from US.

Your coward party is the source of all extremism and terrorism.

Shame on you fckinng Islamist scum, you will get what is coming to you.

So now you have predicted that I am a jamait islami scum.Let me tell you something you moron you are disgracing your community you don't know any thing about Jesus you never read Bible but you always give your expert opinion about Islam.There are some friend of mine who are christians and they never think like you do about these stupid and pathethic things about different people in Pakistan. I will not waste my time as I have did it the past. Keep posting your K@njar Khana like things.Above all you have change the Flag and it means you are not one of us.You are not a Pakistani.Never change that flag again.Keep in whatever colour you wish but not green and white.

 

[53fd]

I understand and appreciate your POV. Don't get diverted by his expression. See the deep and intense feelings. Make that work for a a collective good. And there are many others too. On this forum and outside. Even on the streets. Close ranks, work together. "HALLA BOL".

As I said, in my personal life on the street, I get along with everyone (some of my best friends are Indians), & I'm not afraid to express my point of view. Not that I am here, but I would be more willing to defend Pakistan in public where the majority of people don't know what Pakistanis are really like (& have been filled by the Western propaganda here), & admitting its faults & working to rectify them in a more private setting. I have lived in the US for 10 years, I just turned 23; I've only lived in Pakistan for 8 years of my life (I was born there). My approach is a means of countering all the falsehoods generated by the media outlets here. I used to do what T-Faz is doing right now when I first came to the US, but then I realized that I was only worsening the image of Pakistan in the eyes of people that are already shrouded by propaganda 24/7. I was also unhappy with myself on a personal level, & had deep issues of self-respect. I have come to love Pakistan more, understand it more properly & appreciate it for everything it is, & wish for it to rectify its faults in the coming future.

 

[Comet]

The problem in Quetta is not entirely ethnic but political. The Hazara community came to this land sometime back and are not considered as the "locals" (similar case with Punjabi's and Urdu Speaking Community). The killings happen a lot so does property theft and other stuff. Since Hazara community is also Shia, this problem is often considered to be Sunni-Shia conflict but the reality is that the people behind these attacks have more of a political motive then religious.

 

[T-Faz]

We wished that the perpetrators who shot my father's two brothers in the head would be brought to justice, & such kind of extremism wouldn't be on display in Karachi again. We did not condemn Karachi or Pakistan for this, neither did we condemn all the peaceful people that live here. But we wished the terrorists would be brought to justice.

Were they brought to justice or you packed up and left for America.

No I'm not, but what I express here publicly in front of people from other countries may not be exactly what I feel in my heart. There is a difference between talking things in a public & a private arena.

So you hide your real feelings and put up a fake front for the sake of some non existent respect.

By trying to talk patiently & rationally, even to the K@nj@rs as you call them, not lashing out at others.

Hasn't worked, has it.

You need to make your voice heard, rationally, not by expressing a defeatist attitude like you are. No one gets swayed by that.

You are the one with the defeatist attitude, the way to make your voice heard is by saying what others like you are too scared to say.

I believe in the peaceful majority Barelvi influence that this country has (which is unfortunately sliding down), where Shias, Christians, Ahmadis, Parsis everyone lived peacefully together pre-1947. Do you know that it is the rising influence of Deobandism in Pakistan, the followers of which had been against th creation of Pakistan, that eventually led to discrimination against the Ahmadis?

Deobandi's have a lot of support and tactic approval by our establishment, this the reason why they are so strong and popular even when they opposed Pakistan.

This is what the Dar Uloom Deoband has to say about Ahmedis:

They deem all the rest to be Kafirs, our government listens to them.

This is the stuff they had to say about Shias, which is where Shia "kafir" started coming from:

Darul Ifta Deoband India

They go on cleansing the nation of kafirs for heavenly purposes.

As a Shia who has lived in Punjab with Barelvis, I have seen what they are like. Shias, Ahmedis, Christians have lived very peacefully under Barelvis for hundreds of years. When Ahmadis got killed, I protested for them here on this forum, & called their murderers terrorists. Same thing for Shias & others. It is unfortunately this Deoabandi influence that is pervading through Pakistani society & that's what is causing problems within Pakistan right now.

There is a constant debate going on between a secular state or Islam as a state religion for Bangladesh, yet you don't see people using the words 'K@nj@rs' for other they don't share the same opinion with. Using the language you have does not serve a good purpose for anyone on this forum.

Good for you, it did not and will not change anything though.

In Bangladesh, they aren't killing people on a daily basis, are they.

 

[T-Faz]

So now you have predicted that I am a jamait islami scum.Let me tell you something you moron you are disgracing your community you don't know any thing about Jesus you never read Bible but you always give your expert opinion about Islam.There are some friend of mine who are christians and they never think like you do about these stupid and pathethic things about different people in Pakistan. I will not waste my time as I have did it the past. Keep posting your K@njar Khana like things.Above all you have change the Flag and it means you are not one of us.You are not a Pakistani.Never change that flag again.Keep in whatever colour you wish but not green and white.

Wtf are you on about Jamaati, what has this got to do with Jesus and the Bible?

Why would a Christian confide in an extremist like you who will proceed to attack the other for voicing his opinion.

Go back to your Madrassa, I am sure that there will be a lot sadness, after all Osama died.

Go back to Deoband, that is where you belong, that is where your kind lives.

 

[Developereo]

People are getting very emotional, and understandably so. All of us agree that radical Islam is the main source of our problems; the only question is how to deal with it.

I can understand T-Faz's frustration since the establishment doesn't seem to take the problem seriously. How many sectarian deaths will it take before they tackle the issue head on?

I can also understand why people get angry when someone hides their flag and maligns the whole country. Pakistan is not its generals and politcians; it is the 180 million people, and I still have faith in them. No matter what happens, I will never hide my flag or ever be ashamed to call myself Pakistani.

We need to stop calling each other names and work together to rid ourselves of this scourge of intolerance.

 

[53fd]

Were they brought to justice or you packed up and left for America.

Yes, one of the murderers was found & jailed. The next time pass by Malir sometime, ask for Dr Hur. His death happened almost 16 years ago, but people there still pray for him everyday.

So you hide your real feelings and put up a fake front for the sake of some non existent respect.

I fortunately have a lot of respect for myself & for what I believe in, unlike some other people here who change their flags whenever adversities come.

You are the one with the defeatist attitude, the way to make your voice heard is by saying what others like you are too scared to say.

I think you changing your flags shows that you have already accepted defeat. I don't need to hear about a defeatist attitude from someone who's already accepted defeat. There is a difference between conducting yourself differently in a public & private, it's called 'diplomacy.' Don't know if you're familiar with the term, but living here in the US for the past 10 years has made me realize you have to be diplomatic about certain things, not because you're scared of saying something, but out of respect for others. I think it's high time you learned some of that.

Deobandi's have a lot of support and tactic approval by our establishment, this the reason why they are so strong and popular even when they opposed Pakistan. They deem all the rest to be Kafirs, our government listens to them. They go on cleansing the nation of kafirs for heavenly purposes.

As I said, yes they are scum & are destroying the fabric of Pakistani society everyday.

Good for you, it did not and will not change anything though.

I've done a lot more in my personal capacity than most others do to make a difference. I was in interior Sindh last year, helping my sister who works for Trocaire, assisting all the people that needed supplies there, working constantly non-stop for a month in my vacations to Pakistan. I've donated $8,000 for this school in North Nazimabad 'Set School' that took me months to earn with my first salary working here in the US, as well as for other funding for other projects my immediate relatives are involved in. So please, don't give me a lecture about running away. Don't act like you know me, because you don't.