Sending Pakistan to Mars

[khail007]

Is Edhi creating a program to send pakistan to Mars?

No he is leader in providing free services to humanity for their needs and fighting against social evils in Pakistan

 

[jarves]

Pakistan can't rely on the military for this, SUPARCO along with the private sector would do wonders, Pakistan needs better universities, make better use of it's talent in Physics and Engineering. And trust me, almost every Engineer I know fled Pakistan and never looked back, even the military those Engineers seemed appalled at the lack of direction, scope, mismanagement and they felt overqualified, their colleagues all passed Engineering school and had the paper but nothing to show for it, they were incompetent. Indian missile tech today is aeons ahead of ours because of their space program, because of their vast pool of Engineers and Physicists, money and private sector involvement.

If they can send missions to the moon or Mars, making an ICBM is no problem at all. Pakistan from the early days of it's missile programs focused on doing the bare minimum required to bring capability up to a satisfactory level, if that means using other people's tech, not applying proper scientific method to learn from developments, so be it and that's what we did.

Same is the case with India minus the military part.However due to South India,Negatives get a little bit balanced.Without South India we will be like Nepal.Now before someone accuse me of being racist e.t.c..I am myself a North Indian.

 

[jarves]

I think what indians like to say about us is right. We do have an intelligence problem. Pakistani nation has an IQ level well below the world average. Thats why we cant get things done, things that are scientifically challenging or require good problem solving skills. The remedy to this problem is to develop a culture of thinking. Students must be encouraged to think deeply about things from a young age. Pakistani state has itself suppressed thought in public life uptill now otherwise people will be asking questions like why are we living with an imagined enemy ? So the change has to come from the topmost level. Pakistani state must change its policy from one of stupefying its people to one that promotes enlightenment.

Indian average IQ is 2 point less than that of Pakistan's average last time i checked.Not sure about the current data.However IQ is an irrelevant factor in such things.

 

[Solomon2]

Only those have a right to criticize which have their hands clean -

I must disagree. Even people with clean hands can be accused of having dirty hands by their opponents simply to discredit their ideas. Concentrate on the ideas, not the idea-maker.

 

[PakEye]

Is Edhi creating a program to send pakistan to Mars?

yes but in the field of Services.for Humanity

 

[SekrutYakhni]

We should get all of the political religious whiteknights on a one way mission bound for mars. Pretty soon, Mars will have it's own insurgency movements and their perverted versions of shariah implemented on Martians.

God forbid...infidels wont be the part!

Guess what will happen...

 

[FaujHistorian]

Firstly, Pak needed to respect there scientist. Dont know but what the Pakistani have the problem with Abdul Qadeer Khan, If I was Pakistani, I would salute him. Just to protect the state interest and state institute, Musharaf created a perfect scape goat.Even if he selflessly worked for Pakistan.

I want to ask a question to all Pakistani members, when America arrested Von Braun, did they sended him to Numberg Trials. If we talk morally, he should be indicted and prosecuted in waging war against America for its involvement in V2 program, and at some point he was the member of SS, the same SS which caused the genocide. But still, America given him even bunglow in Las Vegas, and because of this man, Saturn program and Apollo was success.

So, I want to ask question, there should be a moral in state when it come to state interest?

bro

you are making this way too difficult for you.

 

[kaku1]

bro

you are making this way too difficult for you.

what difficult? I was talking about respecting scientist?

 

[Jungibaaz]

I think what indians like to say about us is right. We do have an intelligence problem. Pakistani nation has an IQ level well below the world average. Thats why we cant get things done, things that are scientifically challenging or require good problem solving skills. The remedy to this problem is to develop a culture of thinking. Students must be encouraged to think deeply about things from a young age. Pakistani state has itself suppressed thought in public life uptill now otherwise people will be asking questions like why are we living with an imagined enemy ? So the change has to come from the topmost level. Pakistani state must change its policy from one of stupefying its people to one that promotes enlightenment.

Best post in the thread. Keep it up and you'll be joining PDF's loneliest club, the pessimists.

That will be quite a large payload, why dont we save ourselves from the time and money required for such endeavor, send only a single Zia to accomplish all that?

The point of it was to expel them all rather than conquer Mars.

I'm sure they have plenty of physicists, astronomy majors and engineers within their ranks, they will be fine in case anything goes wrong. In fact, we should give each group/sect their own set of nukes, for when they land on mars they can then settle their disputes like civilised people.

It also means that the probability of them returning to God's earth approaches zero.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

My point was that "smart" people are treated as dirty in our desi lands.

Perhaps yu have no idea of APJ Kalam sir, Mayilsami Annadurai, Sivanthanu Pillai are treated and revered in India.

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

Please don't speak for India

My statement stands. South Asians are easily persuaded with emotions.

Perhaps yu have no idea of APJ Kalam sir, Mayilsami Annadurai, Sivanthanu Pillai are treated and revered in India.

And there you have it. The responsible ones are not given air time because they cant appeal to the emotional desis.

Man 1: Pakistan can't go to mars because the Pakistan Military is using up all the budget.
Man 2: HARAM! Pakistan can't go to mars because the US is preventing Space rockets from getting to us, because they dont want Muslims in space.
Audience: Man 2 is RIGHT!

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

My statement stands. South Asians are easily persuaded with emotions.



And there you have it. The responsible ones are not given air time because they cant appeal to the emotional desis.

Man 1: Pakistan can't go to mars because the Pakistan Military is using up all the budget.
Man 2: HARAM! Pakistan can't go to mars because the US is preventing Space rockets from getting to us, because they dont want Muslims in space.
Audience: Man 2 is RIGHT!

They are not politicians to "Emotionally" appeal to the people. They can only "Motivate" the "Kids and Youths". Thats one main objective of them. And thats y they attend school, coll exhibitions more.
And am sure, none would have the guts to scold them in Live TV show , like a good Professor was chided upon in tv by a mullah.
I consider science better than a religion.

 

[Secur]

Only those have a right to criticize which have their hands clean; @secure you have to go thru my full message and not only a part of it.

Go thru the all threads in history of PDF which were initiated by Mr Solo and you will be able to understand what I mean. If Mr Solo is Aristotle of PDF then he had to start from his own nation's blunders which made this world more insecure.

But there is a saying; 'Pani hamaysha nichli jaga per he aata hai'. Some Pakistani are very generous to accept such finger pointing even if those doing that are more entitled.

Then, I believe that no one has a right to criticize since there's no one with their hands fully clean, mate. I went through your full message and I understand that you have a problem because he opposes the recent dharna politics. That is no reason to discard the current message.

I have read him before and whilst I have sometimes a problem with this message, what he puts in the essentials isn't wrong without applying any rationalization or correction on my end.

Some Pakistanis have come to realize that persistently passing blame on America/foreign forces, nature and luck isn't good enough and has served no purpose ever.

The point of it was to expel them all rather than conquer Mars.

I'm sure they have plenty of physicists, astronomy majors and engineers within their ranks, they will be fine in case anything goes wrong. In fact, we should give each group/sect their own set of nukes, for when they land on mars they can then settle their disputes like civilised people.

It also means that the probability of them returning to God's earth approaches zero.

In such case, I agree.

Soon, the Martians will be migrating to distant lands, Venus perhaps. Lol

 

[khail007]

Then, I believe that no one has a right to criticize since there's no one with their hands fully clean, mate. I went through your full message and I understand that you have a problem because he opposes the recent dharna politics. That is no reason to discard the current message.

I do not have any problem with what is going politically in Pakistan; I accept it as a transition phase for the betterment; though Imran Khan emerges as a pioneer of leading the people who wants the betterment of Pakistan.

I have read him before and whilst I have sometimes a problem with this message, what he puts in the essentials isn't wrong without applying any rationalization or correction on my end.

I still insist what he (Dr Hoodbhai) practically done for the betterment? Only delivering lectures and then writing some columns will never change the fate of Pakistan, I ensure you. If he want to change the fate of Pakistan, he should adopt the way of Edhi.

Some Pakistanis have come to realize that persistently passing blame on America/foreign forces, nature and luck isn't good enough and has served no purpose ever.

Sir, it was not a blame; if you insisted on it; this mean that you are not paying any attention to ground realities. Sir it is true and 100%; that present situation of this area actually the aftermath of superpowers game. We fell in the trap and become pawn of the plan. Western interests achieved their goals or not...but the academies to train the past mujahidins labeled as 'terrorist churning factories' or 'terrorist training camps'. Pakistan was left alone for the sake of blame game or to play the role of escape goat. At least today's superpower needs some to be blamed. The dilemma of Pakistanis is that they are more faithful to superpower rather than Pakistan; true slaves.

I must disagree. Even people with clean hands can be accused of having dirty hands by their opponents simply to discredit their ideas. Concentrate on the ideas, not the idea-maker.

Yes you must disagree; as you try to play angel which you are not...will concentrate on the idea when it will be from some practical character.

 

[qamar1990]

View attachment 159264

Sending Pakistan to Mars
Pervez Hoodbhoy
Updated Oct 18, 2014 01:02pm
View attachment 159265
The author teaches physics in Lahore and Islamabad.

When spacecraft Mangalyaan successfully entered the Martian orbit in late September after a 10-month journey, India erupted in joy. Costing more than an F-16 but less than a Rafale, Mangalyaan’s meticulous planning and execution established India as a space-faring country. Although Indians had falsely celebrated their five nuclear tests of 1998 — which were based upon well-known physics of the 1940s — the Mars mission is a true accomplishment.

Pakistanis may well ask: can we do it too? What will it take? Seen in the proper spirit, India’s foray into the solar system could be Pakistan’s sputnik moment — an opportunity to reflect upon what’s important. Let’s see how India did it: First, space travel is all about science and India’s young ones are a huge reservoir of enthusiasm for science. Surveys show that 12-16 year olds practically worship Albert Einstein and Stephen Hawking, are fascinated by black holes and Schrödinger cats, and most want a career in science. They see more prestige in this than becoming doctors, lawyers, financial managers, or army officers. Although most eventually settle for more conventional professions, this eagerness leads India’s very best students towards science.

Ten years ago, I had personally experienced this youthful enthusiasm during a four-week lecture tour across seven Indian cities that took me to all sorts of schools, colleges, and universities. In places, hundreds turned up for my talks on scientific subjects. Every city had at least one much-visited science museum, and sometimes two or three. Student scientific societies, which appeared active, were everywhere.

How can we Pakistanis get to our bit of the solar system? Or establish a presence in the world of science?

Second, Indian universities have created the necessary backbone for advanced scientific projects. University quality goes from moderately bad to very good, with the median lying around fair. Many mediocre ones produce rotten science PhDs and publications prodigiously, suffocating growth. On the positive side, research in the theoretical sciences carried out in India’s very best universities — as well as institutes such as TIFR and IMSC — compares favourably with that in the world’s top universities.

Rigorous entry standards for students, and a careful selection of faculty, have been important ingredients for this relative success. National examinations for entrance into the Indian Institutes of Technology would make the best students anywhere in the world sweat.

Third, India values — nay, venerates — its top mathematicians and scientists. There is scarcely an Indian I’ve met who doesn’t know the story of Srinivasa Ramanujan, the child prodigy from Madras who astonished the world of high mathematics but tragically died at the age of 32. India is dotted with institutes bearing such names as S.N. Bose, C.V. Raman, M. Saha, and Homi Bhabha.

Back to space: a developing country looking at faraway Mars can take either the Arab way or the Chinese-Indian way.

The first needs a ticket. Petrodollars paid for Prince Salman ibn Saud, the first Arab in space, and put him aloft an American space shuttle in 1985. Recently the UAE announced plans for a Mars mission within 18 years. Just as cash and foreign experts built Dubai and its mega-sized airport, they will also put sheikhs on planets.

But how can we cash-strapped Pakistanis get to our bit of the solar system? Or establish a presence — which we so far lack — in the world of science? The process will be slow, but here is how to do it.

First, create enthusiasm in our young people for science. Space exploration is only a part of the larger whole. Instead of TV channels saturated with dharna news and random political “experts”, have good educational programmes. Standards of English in Pakistan must improve; they have fallen so low that English-language TV channels no longer exist. Sadly, the world of science is closed to those who can only read or understand Urdu.

Second, we must re-educate ourselves to know the difference between science and “cargo science”. This phrase, borrowed from anthropology, was introduced by the physicist Richard Feynman during his 1974 commencement address at the California Institute of Technology.

Feynman said: “In the South Seas there is a cargo cult of people. During [the Second World War] they saw airplanes land with lots of good materials, and they want the same thing to happen now. So they’ve arranged to imitate things like runways, to put fires along the sides of the runways, to make a wooden hut for a man to sit in, with two wooden pieces on his head like headphones and bars of bamboo sticking out like antennas — he’s the controller — and they wait for the airplanes to land. They’re doing everything right. The form is perfect. But it doesn’t work. No airplanes land. So I call these things cargo cult science, because they follow all the apparent precepts and forms of scientific investigation, but they’re missing something essential, because the planes don’t land.”

We must stop teaching a kind of science in Pakistani schools which is science only in name but which bypasses its essence — evidence and reasoning. Students experience mathematics as a bunch of cookbook prescriptions, physics and chemistry are mountains of formulae, and experimental science has been almost totally banished.

Our universities need even more drastic reform. Desperate to show evidence of improvement, government organisations such as the Higher Education Commission and Pakistan Council for Science and Technology have institutionalised a reward system that has led to armies of cargo PhDs — with wooden pieces sticking out of their heads — as well as mountains of cargo publications. Serious de-weeding is needed else academic fakes will crowd out the few genuine academic scientists around.

Third, and last, individual scientific achievement must be recognised while narrow prejudices, both religious and ethnic, must be firmly rejected. India has had many, but Pakistan has had only one great scientist — Abdus Salam. His tragic marginalisation must be reversed. This will be a strong signal that the country is finally prepared to move into the future.

The author teaches physics in Lahore and Islamabad.

Published in Dawn, October 18th, 2014

no need to waste money on this crap... while our population suffers.