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Sending In The PAF

Windjammer

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Post-May 2 unilateral action by the United States in Abbottabad as well as in the wake of the US firing on Pakistani posts at Salala in Mohmand, the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has come under criticism for not acting and taking out US aerial platforms. There have been witty but misplaced tweets and the PAF’s silence has only added to people’s anxiety about what the force can or cannot do. Briefings have come from the army high command with the PAF, which has the best knowledge of its functioning, keeping a low profile.
While it is up to the air force to package some of those details for the understanding of informed generalists, being no expert in such technical and operational details, let me present here some broad points apropos of higher strategy.
As I have written before, a weaker state should avoid a direct response. The air force is an offensive force. Its use, therefore, for a weaker state would mean a much higher climb on the escalation ladder. That is always to the advantage of a stronger adversary who is likely, to put it in Herman Kahn’s words, to enjoy a marked advantage in a given region of the escalation ladder for several reasons, most importantly, sustainability. The ‘jet effect’ of an offensive action is always more difficult to sustain for a weaker state than a stronger one.
Let me translate it. The use of the PAF would mean going on the offensive. The PAF will decide its targeting strategy and, as a senior air force officer I was discussing the issue with said, carry its own air superiority to those targets and destroy them. The PAF can do it to a fairly effective degree but the US can do it even more effectively because of its greater resources and the ability to sustain such a campaign much longer, not just on the military side but by combining it with coercive diplomacy that isolates Pakistan.
Any such decision by Pakistan will also have to keep in mind other hostile states in the region, their responses and the level of threat Pakistan faces from them. In other words, the issue is not just taking on the US Air Force and bearing the consequences of that decision but also determining the space such a decision would give to other hostile states and what advantage they could derive from such confrontation.
Higher strategy is a function of developing responses that suit oneself rather than the other actor(s). The guerrilla wins against a stronger adversary by operating along his own strengths, by his ability to elude the sledgehammer of the stronger force and develop his asymmetrical advantage over a superior force. Why should Pakistan resort to offensive use of air force when it can use other threats more effectively if the push comes to the shove?
States do not have the guerrilla’s advantage. They present an identifiable target. Talking about US military hegemony in a 2003 article titled “Command of the Commons”, Barry R Posen noted that while the US cannot be challenged on sea, in space and in the air, its military advantage is largely blunted in a ‘contested zone’. That’s what we saw in Vietnam, in Iraq and are witnessing now in Afghanistan. In the contested zone, argued Posen, the US can have selective engagement but not enjoy primacy.
Pakistan developed its military strategy against India, not the US. The mainstay of the PAF is the F-16, the latest being the Block 52 fighters. If the threat from the US increases, Pakistan will have to rethink its military strategy, which cannot be done in isolation from its national security strategy, which is the overhang under which the national military strategy must be worked out.
Those who are agitating the issue of the Jacobabad airbase need to understand that the base houses the Block 52 fighters along with US military and non-military personnel, mostly Lockheed contractors, responsible for training PAF personnel in flight and shop line training and, at an advanced level, depot line training. Their presence on the base is part of the F-16 Block 52 deal.
If, in theory, Pakistan were to get into a confrontation with the US, its equipment and armament acquisition for the PAF will have to undergo a drastic change and that is a long-haul process. Therefore, the US and Pakistan, for their own compulsions, share certain risks and have to play the game short of the outcome Thomas Schelling would brand as ‘disaster’.
There are many other complexities that cannot be discussed in an 800-word piece but let it be said that Pakistan has many other options, non-military and, if need be, military, to deal with the US without keeling over the brink or resorting to a direct confrontation which is a function of the use of air force.

Using the PAF? – The Express Tribune
 
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When dealing with the US one definitely needs a cool head
 
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the issue at hand is not the capability of the PAF but many people, including on this forum remembering the PAF scrambling and interdicting Soviet & Afghan airforces aircraft which crossed the international border and airspace. many of the intruders were 'shot down'.
the Soviets were a Superpower then?

what is so different today?
 
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the issue at hand is not the capability of the PAF but many people, including on this forum remembering the PAF scrambling and interdicting Soviet & Afghan airforces aircraft which crossed the international border and airspace. many of the intruders were 'shot down'.
the Soviets were a Superpower then?

what is so different today?

difference is that we can use American Fighters against Soviets but cannot use against who build them , nation need to come as strong as a whole, not just one part of it,,......

orders are already in place to return the fire... and change of command (decision on root level).... maybe deployment of some ground to air thingi

Germany came very strongly in Bonn conference and siding with Pakistan, but that has its own reasons....

By all these measures and future measures this is very first time Pakistan is not on defensive side, its USA who is now giving explanations everywhere... so enjoy they show and be a part of it when needed :)

so
 
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the issue at hand is not the capability of the PAF but many people, including on this forum remembering the PAF scrambling and interdicting Soviet & Afghan airforces aircraft which crossed the international border and airspace. many of the intruders were 'shot down'.
the Soviets were a Superpower then?

what is so different today?

Well our great military had Uncle Sam's blessings back then. Uncle Sam was standing behind our military, and according to a documentary, US threatened the Ruskies on attacking Pakistan.

Who is going to back Pak now US has turned its tables around...China? Russia? I highly doubt it.
 
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Well our great military had Uncle Sam's blessings back then. Uncle Sam was standing behind our military, and according to a documentary, US threatened the Ruskies on attacking Pakistan.

Who is going to back Pak now US has turned its tables around...China? Russia? I highly doubt it.

i doubt any nation in the gulf will . as for china , history has shown they like to keep neutral (as they did in kargil) so i don't know who will stand behind Pakistan . if they take on the USAF.
 
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i doubt any nation in the gulf will . as for china , history has shown they like to keep neutral (as they did in kargil) so i don't know who will stand behind Pakistan . if they take on the USAF.

there was no need for the chinese to back us during kargil as it was a failed strategy from the beginning, Thankx to Mushi..
 
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there was no need for the chinese to back us during kargil as it was a failed strategy from the beginning, Thankx to Mushi..

so by that definition they should not back you up this time too . after all how in gods name will you be able to pit the PAF against the USAF?
 
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Assalam alaikum

we know neither paf or maybe any other af can stand against usaf and nobody called for it since we can hurt them in many other ways and we must explore them. u.s has an agenda which is against our interest we must fail them at any cost.

on a side not after 10 years our forces might not be able to stand against indians.

Isn't that be a good idea to lower defence budget and army , af and navy so we can have some development in the country since they can't fight ( or don't have the spine as some of our brother have stated )

TARIQ
 
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the issue at hand is not the capability of the PAF but many people, including on this forum remembering the PAF scrambling and interdicting Soviet & Afghan airforces aircraft which crossed the international border and airspace. many of the intruders were 'shot down'.
the Soviets were a Superpower then?

what is so different today?
Last night, in one of the talk shows, a former PAF AVM touched the very subject,....during the Afghan/Soviet conflict, albeit the PAF shot down over a dozen intruders but the PAF still had to fight with limitations...while the enemy intruded at will bombed the border areas and escaped back into Afghan territory, the PAF on the other hand operated under strict ROE...like the targeted enemy aircraft must fall within Pakistani territory, at jet speed the miles always seem shorter. A lot of flying hours were also wasted on fruitless orbits. According to the AVM, in such a situation the Mani-pads are the best option which have reportedly been deployed now.
 
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Assalam alaikum

we know neither paf or maybe any other af can stand against usaf and nobody called for it since we can hurt them in many other ways and we must explore them. u.s has an agenda which is against our interest we must fail them at any cost.

on a side not after 10 years our forces might not be able to stand against indians.

Isn't that be a good idea to lower defence budget and army , af and navy so we can have some development in the country since they can't fight ( or don't have the spine as some of our brother have stated )

TARIQ

Its a fact proven to Pakistani people again and again, they day they close their eyes on defence , india and other hostile nations will try to run over it.....
How many time army need to prove them, there might be few things need to be changed but it does not mean we close our eyes ....
Even when our Prophet Died there were only 9 swords(main fighting weapon of that time) in his home, which shows us that even in hard times we should not close our eyes from defence.....
 
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Its a fact proven to Pakistani people again and again, they day they close their eyes on defence , india and other hostile nations will try to run over it.....
How many time army need to prove them, there might be few things need to be changed but it does not mean we close our eyes ....
Even when our Prophet Died there were only 9 swords(main fighting weapon of that time) in his home, which shows us that even in hard times we should not close our eyes from defence.....

Assalam alaikum

brother, i m firmed believer if u can't live with dignity then it is better to die for it.

After the death of our beloved Prophet pbuh , the companions took on the murtaddeen, romans and persians and destroyed all of them though they were outnumbered, under equipped , many fronts

we as a nation or our armed forces didnot follow them and if u or anybody think our only enemy is india then u r wrong

i believe in defence of the nation and providing the resources to armed forces but if they not gonna fight and will come up with so many excuses. to me is worth less forces

TARIQ
 
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The ‘jet effect’ of an offensive action is always more difficult to sustain for a weaker state than a stronger one.
Let me translate it. The use of the PAF would mean going on the offensive. The PAF will decide its targeting strategy and, as a senior air force officer I was discussing the issue with said, carry its own air superiority to those targets and destroy them. The PAF can do it to a fairly effective degree but the US can do it even more effectively because of its greater resources and the ability to sustain such a campaign much longer, not just on the military side but by combining it with coercive diplomacy that isolates Pakistan.

Pakistan has many other options, non-military and, if need be, military, to deal with the US without keeling over the brink or resorting to a direct confrontation which is a function of the use of air force.

This guy didn't learn a lesson after the recent attacks on Pakistan checkposts. He didn't explain what the solution to protect Pakistan Army. He basically saying in very simple level to use other options non military to deal with US, which means diplomacy, boycott, condemn statements and expels. At least he forgot to mention, F-16 Blk 52 is control of IFF system which can't target US airforces. Abottabad raid is clear to us.

I think, next year NATO jets will bomb on PAF to destroy some assets (Mehran Attack example). Still no response.
 
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the issue at hand is not the capability of the PAF but many people, including on this forum remembering the PAF scrambling and interdicting Soviet & Afghan airforces aircraft which crossed the international border and airspace. many of the intruders were 'shot down'.
the Soviets were a Superpower then?

what is so different today?

Difference is pretty clear.. this time we have Zardari and his team.
 
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