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Sending In The PAF

till now pakistan is losing money men and economy . so its better to stay away and safe rather then involve in this mess and lose . we don't want war with them we just wanna stay away .

I am not talking about war which is not an option for both sides.. but hurting US financially will also have impact on Pakistan. they are still the no. 1 funding countries to IMF and WB. there are reasons because of that they are superpower.
 
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Weren't there USAF fighter jets during OBL raid to protect helicopters? Were they stealth? We were unable to detect them...

nope they was not stealth nor they was GOD of wars lolz
 
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One more interesting thing who is funding this WAR ?

Americans, British, Russians, Chinese, Arabs, Iranians, Pakistanis, Indians etc. etc. Every country mentioned has a skin in this game and is funding their own.
 
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Americans, British, Russians, Chinese, Arabs, Iranians, Pakistanis, Indians etc. etc. Every country mentioned has a skin in this game and is funding their own.

as the west is "bankrupt" who is filling the pocket of US ??
 
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as the west is "bankrupt" who is filling the pocket of US ??

China is filling the pocket but they are doing this because they want to keep their market alive. U.S is the biggest trading partner and without it China will start to collapse. Chinese want American to be dependent on them. Slowly with time, they will find more ways to make money.
 
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I am not talking about war which is not an option for both sides.. but hurting US financially will also have impact on Pakistan. they are still the no. 1 funding countries to IMF and WB. there are reasons because of that they are superpower.

so dear bro what you think they bomb us and we keep head down ?
 
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so dear bro what you think they bomb us and we keep head down ?

I never said that Imran... but in case of any attack pakistan should show balls like Iran. Pakistan forces could have done better . PAF could have a sent few jets atleast to send the message that our soldiers are not sitting ducks and we mean business.
 
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war on terror in afganistan is a big game, and pakistan is one of the players. You will win sometimes and lose sometimes.
 
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US may also return the favor. With deep pocket they can sustain longer than pakistan. You are loosing leverage over US. The last one is the no intelligence sharing with NATO and any attack on NATO will have serious consequences on Pakistan.

One more interesting thing who is funding this WAR ?

1-Blocking supply is not a declaration of war....they are welcomed to find other ways (Even Russia started to blackmail them), soon they ll realize the importance of Pakistani route when the footing of war bill goes in US budget....
2- Whats the point in having leverage over US which does not serve our national interest?......How long we can fight a war which serves no one but US's interests?
3- FYI, NATO has already issued directives to its operatives to stay away from the buffer zone between Pakistan and Afghanistan at all costs during operations, probably they also know that this time around, there may be a fierce reply....
4- US has been footing the bill for its own interests, not for the greater good of world.....

---------- Post added at 02:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:10 AM ----------

I am not talking about war which is not an option for both sides.. but hurting US financially will also have impact on Pakistan. they are still the no. 1 funding countries to IMF and WB. there are reasons because of that they are superpower.
1- Pakistan has opted out of IMF program about 6 months ago
2- Pakistan is also not participating in any World bank program...
Care do some self updating before speaking up.....
 
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difference is that we can use American Fighters against Soviets but cannot use against who build them , nation need to come as strong as a whole, not just one part of it,,......

orders are already in place to return the fire... and change of command (decision on root level).... maybe deployment of some ground to air thingi

Germany came very strongly in Bonn conference and siding with Pakistan, but that has its own reasons....

By all these measures and future measures this is very first time Pakistan is not on defensive side, its USA who is now giving explanations everywhere... so enjoy they show and be a part of it when needed :)

so

i'm not advocating a war with the US, ISAF etc but we cannot let them 'intrude' our airspace with 'impunity'. what strong message out GoP has sent to the US etc for not violating our nation?
 
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i'm not advocating a war with the US, ISAF etc but we cannot let them 'intrude' our airspace with 'impunity'. what strong message out GoP has sent to the US etc for not violating our nation?
We cannot afford it either. In the short term, we can kill every personnel of theirs present. But once they come with full reinforcement, F-22s, B-52s, A/C Carriers and other hardcore war stuff, we can only resist for a couple of days. And India as we know them, would seek this opportunity to attack from sides.
 
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1-Blocking supply is not a declaration of war....they are welcomed to find other ways (Even Russia started to blackmail them), soon they ll realize the importance of Pakistani route when the footing of war bill goes in US budget....
2- Whats the point in having leverage over US which does not serve our national interest?......How long we can fight a war which serves no one but US's interests?
3- FYI, NATO has already issued directives to its operatives to stay away from the buffer zone between Pakistan and Afghanistan at all costs during operations, probably they also know that this time around, there may be a fierce reply....
4- US has been footing the bill for its own interests, not for the greater good of world.....

---------- Post added at 02:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:10 AM ----------


1- Pakistan has opted out of IMF program about 6 months ago
2- Pakistan is also not participating in any World bank program...
Care do some self updating before speaking up.....


I never said that and never implied that blocking supply line is a declaration of war. The point was US can sustain longer than any other nation. chinese are there to buy their bonds. :lol: They will surely feel the pinch but they do return the favor by putting sanction against pakistan. which we talk in details.

Loosing leverage over US will have severe consequences for Pakistan. most of the defence system in pakistan's inventory are still from US also all countries import critical equipment from US. So there is no one way street.

That is good.

Chinese are financing the war by buying T- bills from US. anyone can see that.

Do you want me to post the sources which says pakistan is talking to IMF and WB behind your back and make you eat humble pie ? Use google it is for free.
 
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Its a fact proven to Pakistani people again and again, they day they close their eyes on defence , india and other hostile nations will try to run over it.....
How many time army need to prove them, there might be few things need to be changed but it does not mean we close our eyes ....
Even when our Prophet Died there were only 9 swords(main fighting weapon of that time) in his home, which shows us that even in hard times we should not close our eyes from defence.....

While i agree that you have every right to have the highest standards of defense preparedness , however i beg to disagree that India would run over Pakistan , India cant and wont run over Pakistan not now , not in the future too ... since both countries have nuclear deterrence ...

As Tariq highlighted , Pakistan should come out of the mindset of India being their main enemy and also the fact that Pak focuses on developing the country as a whole . Peace in Pakistan will result in Peace in India too and vice versa
 
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Post-May 2 unilateral action by the United States in Abbottabad as well as in the wake of the US firing on Pakistani posts at Salala in Mohmand, the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has come under criticism for not acting and taking out US aerial platforms. There have been witty but misplaced tweets and the PAF’s silence has only added to people’s anxiety about what the force can or cannot do. Briefings have come from the army high command with the PAF, which has the best knowledge of its functioning, keeping a low profile.
While it is up to the air force to package some of those details for the understanding of informed generalists, being no expert in such technical and operational details, let me present here some broad points apropos of higher strategy.
As I have written before, a weaker state should avoid a direct response. The air force is an offensive force. Its use, therefore, for a weaker state would mean a much higher climb on the escalation ladder. That is always to the advantage of a stronger adversary who is likely, to put it in Herman Kahn’s words, to enjoy a marked advantage in a given region of the escalation ladder for several reasons, most importantly, sustainability. The ‘jet effect’ of an offensive action is always more difficult to sustain for a weaker state than a stronger one.
Let me translate it. The use of the PAF would mean going on the offensive. The PAF will decide its targeting strategy and, as a senior air force officer I was discussing the issue with said, carry its own air superiority to those targets and destroy them. The PAF can do it to a fairly effective degree but the US can do it even more effectively because of its greater resources and the ability to sustain such a campaign much longer, not just on the military side but by combining it with coercive diplomacy that isolates Pakistan.
Any such decision by Pakistan will also have to keep in mind other hostile states in the region, their responses and the level of threat Pakistan faces from them. In other words, the issue is not just taking on the US Air Force and bearing the consequences of that decision but also determining the space such a decision would give to other hostile states and what advantage they could derive from such confrontation.
Higher strategy is a function of developing responses that suit oneself rather than the other actor(s). The guerrilla wins against a stronger adversary by operating along his own strengths, by his ability to elude the sledgehammer of the stronger force and develop his asymmetrical advantage over a superior force. Why should Pakistan resort to offensive use of air force when it can use other threats more effectively if the push comes to the shove?
States do not have the guerrilla’s advantage. They present an identifiable target. Talking about US military hegemony in a 2003 article titled “Command of the Commons”, Barry R Posen noted that while the US cannot be challenged on sea, in space and in the air, its military advantage is largely blunted in a ‘contested zone’. That’s what we saw in Vietnam, in Iraq and are witnessing now in Afghanistan. In the contested zone, argued Posen, the US can have selective engagement but not enjoy primacy.
Pakistan developed its military strategy against India, not the US. The mainstay of the PAF is the F-16, the latest being the Block 52 fighters. If the threat from the US increases, Pakistan will have to rethink its military strategy, which cannot be done in isolation from its national security strategy, which is the overhang under which the national military strategy must be worked out.
Those who are agitating the issue of the Jacobabad airbase need to understand that the base houses the Block 52 fighters along with US military and non-military personnel, mostly Lockheed contractors, responsible for training PAF personnel in flight and shop line training and, at an advanced level, depot line training. Their presence on the base is part of the F-16 Block 52 deal.
If, in theory, Pakistan were to get into a confrontation with the US, its equipment and armament acquisition for the PAF will have to undergo a drastic change and that is a long-haul process. Therefore, the US and Pakistan, for their own compulsions, share certain risks and have to play the game short of the outcome Thomas Schelling would brand as ‘disaster’.
There are many other complexities that cannot be discussed in an 800-word piece but let it be said that Pakistan has many other options, non-military and, if need be, military, to deal with the US without keeling over the brink or resorting to a direct confrontation which is a function of the use of air force.

Using the PAF? – The Express Tribune

An insightful write up. Must be commended.
 
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While i agree that you have every right to have the highest standards of defense preparedness , however i beg to disagree that India would run over Pakistan , India cant and wont run over Pakistan not now , not in the future too ... since both countries have nuclear deterrence ...

As Tariq highlighted , Pakistan should come out of the mindset of India being their main enemy and also the fact that Pak focuses on developing the country as a whole . Peace in Pakistan will result in Peace in India too and vice versa

I think you have not seen the videos where indian media is saying Pakistan as 'Dushman desh' again n again...
its not Pakistani people mind set alone its indians as well so sort yourself out first and then tell us to .....

---------- Post added at 03:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:43 PM ----------

i'm not advocating a war with the US, ISAF etc but we cannot let them 'intrude' our airspace with 'impunity'. what strong message out GoP has sent to the US etc for not violating our nation?

my friend i agree with you, but PAF need to see if they shot them down it should crash in Pakistan not in afghanistan.
also we need to deploy ground to air things :)
 
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