Secularists should 'mend ways or leave country', says PTI lawmaker

[Reichsmarschall]

Liberals on Quaid-e-Azam

Todays they must have feeling alot of pain bca even after 70 years of partition TNT is still alive

 

[django]

They didnt get it in their immediate futures either, it took britain several civil wars and atleast 500 yrs to get here, it took france a complete bloody reboot and several civil wars to get here, it seems the only ones who immediately got it were the muslims of old, just 10 yrs and equality justice etc to a quater of the world, no one can compete that, we are a sham islamic republic, we need to adopt caliphate aka presidential system asap, implement pire islamic jurispendence etc to truly become an islamic republic..

I am not a theologian so I can not comment on what is a true Islamic state, what I can say for sure is that the current so-called Khalifat is an absolute sham, whilst the current Pakistani constitution was formed with extensive input from scholars of various schools of thought and the people have accepted it, unlike the ISIS gangster republic formed by the barrel of a gun.Kudos

 

[M. Sarmad]

Please stop twisting things. Listen to Jinnah's speeches carefully and slowly! It is well established that Pakistan was created for muslims, for our way of life (i.e. Islam) and Jinnah clearly said that we are a different nation from the Hindus in every way. If we were created to be secular, then there would not have been a need for Pakistan as India claims to be secular state anyways.

Anyways, cry and scream all you want, you are a minority anyways and you will not dictate a majority on how we want Pakistan to be. If you can't stand Pakistan as majority wants it to be, then please LEAVE!

For starters:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/islamization-of-jinnah.301462/

 

[Awan68]

They adopted ideologies that helped them get where they're today and there's no harm in accepting that as i said Mr Jinnah didn't wanted an Islamic state zia islamised Pakistan what have we achieved from that? where are standing today everything went down the moment that shaitan came to power.

You can not force sharia law on anyone.

Pls! it's ok to be patriotic but it's not ok to lie to yourself and don't even get me started on taliban issue otherwise thread will be derailed.

Don't quote me if you don't have any sensible thing to say.

I seriously have no stomach to debate with intellectual infants, i have standards mate so bye bye...

 

[The Sandman]

I seriously have no stomach to debate with intellectual infants, i have standards mate so bye bye...

Yea i judged from your first post that an immature emotionally charged guy has quoted me still i tried (as it wasn't the first time that has happened with me). sigh

P.S a tip for future don't quote people and waste their time if you don't know how to debate i ignored all the words of your post that mature people don't use in a debate.

 

[Musafir117]

Did he wanted a Jewsih state??

the difference b/w the nationalists and Desi liberals is that a Nationalist would die protecting the hounour of Pakistan and her armed forces while shameless desi liberals bark at army 24/7

If you don't follow constitution then you have no right to live here

Oops! I forget another their noble contribution in society " They are so called distributors of issuing certificates for patriots/Traitors and Kafir or Sarkari Muslim"
Have a nice day Well, again lack of tolerance.

 

[Awan68]

I am not a theologian so I can not comment on what is a true Islamic state, what I can say for sure is that the current so-called Khalifat is an absolute sham, whilst the current Pakistani constitution was formed with extensive input from scholars of various schools of thought and the people have accepted it, unlike the ISIS gangster republic formed by the barrel of a gun.Kudos

Brother u seem like a smart enough dude, so dont insult ur intelligence by equating isis with caliphate, i presume u know who runs isis and what purpose it serves, let me tell u something which may surprise u a bit, they only caliphate bieng run today in this world is the american one( without the islamic juripendence ofcourse), and guess what they are ruling the world,...

 

[Reichsmarschall]

Oops! I forget another their noble contribution in society " They are so called distributors of issuing certificates for patriots/Traitors and Kafir or Sarkari Muslim"
Have a nice day Well, again lack of tolerance.

you also forget those who label people ISI agent and Moochi etc

 

[Verve]

For starters:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/islamization-of-jinnah.301462/

Oh please, cut the crap.

You either do not understand Islam or you are too damn secularist blinkered to want to understand.

Like that idiot friend of yours who will be along soon to say 'Prophet S.A.W was the first liberal in the world'.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Oh please, cut the crap.

You either do not understand Islam or you are too damn secularist blinkered to want to understand.

Like that idiot friend of yours who will be along soon to say 'Prophet S.A.W was the first liberal in the world'.

^^ Just As I expected. No counter arguments, facts or logic ... Stupid rants only

Have a nice day, mate

 

[AUz]

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Pakistan was NOT established as an "Islamic Republic". Pakistan became an Islamic Republic in 1956 only (i.e. 9 years after its creation); "Prostitution of Islam for political ends" as President Iskander Mirza described it.

Little knowledge can definitely makes you look rather foolish, and I'm afraid that is the case with you.

From 1947 to 1956, Pakistan was just a territory. It was called "dominion of Pakistan"...Do you know of any other 'dominions' existing today? Lol, no...because what exists are 'states' and not dominions.

So from 1947 to 1956--Pakistan, although independent, was not a defined state. We had no constitution, we had no basis of our statehood, and basically we had no identity. And all of this is fine because we were a new country trying to establish what would we be in the league of nations.

So in 1956, we established our first constitution and guess what? In that constitution, we established ourselves as Islamic Republic. And since then, ALL constitutions, founding documents, and our founding leaders' vision points towards one and only one fact: Pakistan to be an Islamic state where the culture of Islam is nurtured and minorities are treated with justice as prescribed byIslam.

Furthermore, Pakistan was meant to be an Islamic country even before 1947. M.A Jinnah talked about Islam and it's role in the state again, and again, and again, and again...in his speeches, interviews, public addresses, and even negotiations with the British high command in United India.

It's all pretty well recorded, actually. I took few "South Asian Studies" classes in my university here in the U.S. My professors (one Indian origin, one Irish-German origin American) stated the same thing...that Jinnah envisioned an Islamic country based on justice and social harmony.

Guess even these professors...who weren't even Pakistanis and hence were neutral...did not know history but our liberal wanna be's do?

Shame on you folks for peddling lies about Pakistan and it's history.

 

[django]

Brother u seem like a smart enough dude, so dont insult ur intelligence by equating isis with caliphate, i presume u know who runs isis and what purpose it serves, let me tell u something which may surprise u a bit, they only caliphate bieng run today in this world is the american one( without the islamic juripendence ofcourse), and guess what they are ruling the world,...

Put it this way both Hizbt-Tahrir which is trying to cause Fitnah amongst our armed forces and ISIS are dangerous charlatans, we do not need their endoresment to be known as an Islamic state/republic, the fact is the people chose Islam at the time of partition and an Islamic constitution which was devised by leading scholars of the country and has the backing of the overwhelming majority.

 

[Finer]

Since when secular is crime? Islam is all secular and liberal that crushed the conservative mindset 1400 years ago, and brought equality, respect for women, open-mind for knowledge means light, and multiculturalism which was not the case with the dominated conservative mindset.

If anything, the conservative mindset as i see is anti-Islam in many ways that breeds division, mistreatment of women and minority, dark over the light, not to mention ignorance to new heights.

Jinnah (R.A) was Muslim that should have been enough to suffice for the questions even though people ask for clarification. Pakistan is based on Allama Iqbal (R.A)'s visions executed by Jinnah (R.A) who reminded repeatedly during the course of Pakistan being creation that while Pakistan is created for Muslim people but people who are not Muslim are equally welcome, and can be great asset as part of multiculturalism for Pakistan.

Do i need to remind you people after Muslim people conquered Iraq and then Umar Ibn Al-Khattab (R.A) promised the security for Christian and Jewish people including the treaty that anyone who betray the treaty is biggest enemy of GOD; not the enemy of Umar Ibn Al-Khattab (R.A) but the enemy of GOD. Why?

Because GOD vouched for the minority who are obedient and seeks protection by paying taxes under the Muslim ruling should be under the category that those who harm the minority are the biggest enemy of GOD warning very those Muslims people who try to promote intolerance against minority.

And it is crime to be secular/liberal which is technically definition of Muslim since truth comes first before anything, and that is how you discover the path through the journey. Even if you have to go to the China to seek the knowledge, then so be it. That is how important liberal/secular is for everyone; Muslims and Non-Muslims. Liberal/Secularism unites the nation, but the conservative divides the nation.

Terrorist-outfit aka TTP is the example of the conservative mindset that thrived upon the support of conservative groups from Afghanistan to Pakistan thus killing more than 50,000 people including children and women, and damaging the economy of Pakistan. And it is certainly not surprising coming from lawmaker of PTI that has the history of pro-stances for TTP despite being caught promoting terrorism repeatedly.

Remember the advice of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) in regards to terrorist-outfit aka TTP/ISIS; in other word, Khawarijism? They are worst scum of dog-hell fire; biggest enemy of GOD. To the extent, our prayers may seem insignificant to them but in their hearts, Islam means nothing just as the recitation of Holy Quran will not go below their throat meaning they will do that is against Islam which is killing people everywhere, and corrupting the faith thus announcing itself as the biggest enemy of GOD eternally. That is why terrorist-outfit aka Khawarij must be killed at any cost. Anyone who kill them will be rewarded from GOD immensely. That alone shows why their political ideology must be eradicated from the facet of the earth along with them [khawarij].

Islam laid out the rules 1400 years ago and Jinnah (R.A) simply revived as the reminder for the generations after generations of Pakistan why the minority is crucially part of Pakistan. Because Islam says so.

Greater Pakistan has no place for conservative that is anti-multiculturalism since Greater Pakistan expands to the platform of multiculturalism from all over the worlds and considers everyone as equal regardless of their faiths, their religions. And that day will come and even at the expense of the fleeting conservative mindset. It is prophesied. Those who try to divide Pakistan upon the political ideology that is anti-Islam will not succeed.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Little knowledge can definitely makes you look rather foolish, and I'm afraid that is the case with you.

From 1947 to 1956, Pakistan was just a territory. It was called "dominion of Pakistan"...Do you know of any other 'dominions' existing today? Lol, no...because what exists are 'states' and not dominions.

So from 1947 to 1956--Pakistan, although independent, was not a defined state. We had no constitution, we had no basis of our statehood, and basically we had no identity. And all of this is fine because we were a new country trying to establish what would we be in the league of nations.

So in 1956, we established our first constitution and guess what? In that constitution, we established ourselves as Islamic Republic. And since then, ALL constitutions, founding documents, and our founding leaders' vision points towards one and only one fact: Pakistan to be an Islamic state where the culture of Islam is nurtured and minorities are treated with justice as prescribed byIslam.

Furthermore, Pakistan was meant to be an Islamic country even before 1947. M.A Jinnah talked about Islam and it's role in the state again, and again, and again, and again...in his speeches, interviews, public addresses, and even negotiations with the British high command in United India.

It's all pretty well recorded, actually. I took few "South Asian Studies" classes in my university here in the U.S. My professors (one Indian origin, one Irish-German origin American) stated the same thing...that Jinnah envisioned an Islamic country based on justice and social harmony.

Guess even these professors...who weren't even Pakistanis and hence were neutral...did not know history but our liberal wanna be's do?

Shame on you folks for peddling lies about Pakistan and it's history.

Good that you have accepted that Pakistan was not created as an Islamic Republic in its founding documents (your original claim)

As for your claim that Pakistan was meant to be an Islamic country as Jinnah envisioned an Islamic country, it is debatable. Link has been provided in Post # 31

Regards

 

[AUz]

Good that you have accepted that Pakistan was not created as an Islamic Republic in its founding documents (your original claim)

As for your claim that Pakistan was meant to be an Islamic country as Jinnah envisioned an Islamic country, it is debatable. Link has been provided in Post # 31

Regards

Pakistan was established as an Islamic Republic in it's founding documents.

Our first constitution made Pakistan an Islamic Republic, and hell, even before independence--declaration of Pakistan in 1933 by Chaudry Rehmat Ali clearly stated a demand for a separate nation based on religious reasons.

Here, the full text


3, Humberstone Road,
Cambridge, England.
28 January 1933

Dear Sir or Madam,

I am enclosing herewith an appeal on behalf of the thirty million Muslims of PAKISTAN, who live in the five Northern Units of India—Punjab, North-West Frontier (Afghan) Province, Kashmir, Sind, and Baluchistan. It embodies their demand for the recognition of their national status, as distinct from the other inhabitants of India, by the grant to Pakistan of a separate Federal Constitution on religious, social and historical grounds.

I shall be pleased if you will kindly acquaint me with your valuable opinion on the proposed solution of the great Hindu-Muslim problem. I trust that, vitally interested as you are in a just and permanent solution of that complex problem, the objects outlined in the appeal wiIl meet with your fullest approval and active support.

Yours truly, Rahmat Ali (Choudhary). (Founder, Pakistan National Movement)

Does all of this sound to you as an plea for a 'secular' nation?

Look, you can fool yourself and create a myth for your psychological stability. But please, don't peddle your lies on us.

Pakistan was meant to be an Islamic state. Pakistan was declared an Islamic Republic in its founding documents. Pakistan will stay an Islamic Republic, Inshallah.

Please, stop banging your head on the wall for no reason.