Secularism In India

[Khajur]

vsdoc sir,

I want to point out the historic fact that north west india including the eastern Afganistan (kandhar region) used to be a largely buddhist region where locals have turned gradually to buddhism as more of pragmatic version of hinduism minus rituals since the days of King Ashoka's courting of buddhist life and have reached it peak just prior to advent of muslim conquest.

But when local kings were conquered,killed and converted some of who were hindu brahmins...the population had no choice but convert or else .

I suggest u read about the ROMA ppl who were actually the natives of todays pakistan to know the fate they suffered after the muslim invasion.

 

[vsdoc]

Yes agreed completely. I was going to include Afghanistan too but was not sure about my sources and specific genealogy so desisted. It is a historical fact that Afghans have always traditionally had warm relations with Indians, with regular trade and exchange of culture, ideas and people from both sides.

Cheers, Doc

 

[EjazR]

I just want to comment on two specific points:

(1) The Mongols (Chengiz Khan e.t.c.) that devasted the areas of Iran, Afghanistan and north-west pakistan where actually non-muslims at that time. Most people misconstrue the fact that because their last name is Khan they were muslims, they were not.

Its another story that they accepted Islam later on. Note that that there was no way they could have been "Forced" to accept Islam as they had completely sacked Baghdad and muslim kingdoms in that area. Most of Central Asia belongs to these ethnic group so it is not logical that the people who conquered Muslim kingdoms would be forced into Islam.

(2) Although there may be instances of temple demolishing, looting e.t.c. to say that that was the only way Islam spread is lack of information. Keral was the first place where Islam actually reached India, Indonesia and Maylasia never had any muslim armies invading it. So it is important to keep views balanced.

Im not denying that Iranians or Indians or Indonesians are not ethnic Arabs, but we should accept that the majority of those who accepted Islam in these countries or other areas were because they were attracted to this religion. Be it due to the sufi movement in India or to arab traders in Indonesia.

I don't mean to drag this topic so much, but I hope it has helped to show another perspective.

 

[nitesh28]

Agreed vsdoc,that is why I was just clarifying that its the Arab imperialistic attitude, and now the Khomeni hardliner attitude which is the problem. Not the religion itself.

Speaking in broader terms, its mixing politics with Islam which is an anthaema to me that is the issue. The repurcussions of mixing religion with politics is the basis of fascist and extremist groups and this applies to any religion.

Let me qoute here

"Islam is the best religion of all times but it has the worst followers"

 

[rubyjackass]

@rubyjackass
Whatever I have quoted about madrassas in India or secularism are not my own musings on this matter. You can point out anything from my post which you think is "too far". This is based on information booklets and decrees and explanations from Indian Islamic seminaries and universities. I personally think that Indian ulema are in a unique position to reach out to the muslims around the world particularly arabs to lead them away from extremism and back to the true spirit of Islam. Some of these seminaries are highly respected and maybe they can help in leading Arab countries towards democratic form of government.

My comments were not about seminaries. If you noticed I have acknowledged vsdoc's pun on himself being an Indian. So it was regarding your second post.

 

[Khajur]

Let me qoute here

"Islam is the best religion of all times but it has the worst followers"

Thats an oxymoron...how the best religion in the world can produce worst follower??

Besides its just another quote...nothing much to dwell in to that.

 

[nitesh28]

Thats an oxymoron...how the best religion in the world can produce worst follower??

Besides its just another quote...nothing much to dwell in to that.

all the students read the same book but do they score the same marks in the exams.

 

[Khajur]

all the students read the same book but do they score the same marks in the exams.

Ohh well i wish things were as simple as ur explanation.

 

[vsdoc]

I just want to comment on two specific points:

(1) The Mongols (Chengiz Khan e.t.c.) that devasted the areas of Iran, Afghanistan and north-west pakistan where actually non-muslims at that time. Most people misconstrue the fact that because their last name is Khan they were muslims, they were not.

Its another story that they accepted Islam later on. Note that that there was no way they could have been "Forced" to accept Islam as they had completely sacked Baghdad and muslim kingdoms in that area. Most of Central Asia belongs to these ethnic group so it is not logical that the people who conquered Muslim kingdoms would be forced into Islam.

Ejaz, I think both of us have made our points pretty well and in a balanced fashion. Also I too do not necessarily want to keep chewing on the same issue. But I do have to point out the historical/monocular fallacy of the above point made by you.

Buddy, the mongols invaded Iran killing Muslim and Zoroastrians alike MUCH later in the 13 century.

Before them you had the Turks in the 11 century.

I am talking about the infamous Mohameddan Jihad of the 6th century my friend.

History of Zoroastrians in Islamic Iran

Cheers, Doc

 

[vandemataram]

You are probebly the first Indian I would wish to be on our side of the line. Having said that, I would dare to disagree to a degree with one of your paragraphs. By law, I agree there wont be any restriction on minorities to join government organization or be deprived of higher education. But its not the government constitution that formulates a society. Its the people, our daily matters and the mindset that makes us feel loved, cared, hatred, banished and being part of some society and ultimately formulate a Nation. When these differences are Intact and rather being inflated more, you can only expect what is happening in India and with Muslims in India.

I never feel like writing "Muslims of India" because India never gave the world an impression that they own those Muslims like we own our Muslims in Pakistan.

You are wayward right from the word go ....it is mirror image...

It should have been

I never feel like writing "Hindus and Sikhs of Pakistan. Pakistan never gave the world an impression that they own those Hindus like we own our Hindus in India...

 

[vandemataram]

no one can deny that it is the hinduism that binds and sticks the loosening social order of india together, can india this gigantic country be formed without the reign of hindu religion, or will it be separated into different religious clan regions? how much secular can a country be since its foundation is based on religion??

If you are a Malay Muslim...then its is okay..

One is not supposed to know everything...even if he wanted to ...

Are you talking about Pakistan ...