Second Hand F-16's for PAF

[batmannow]

We should hold our horses in peace time and get our economy back on track and after that start looking towards better options maybe even joining in the 5th generation project. These stop gap measures should be a thing of the past.

Stronger defence, stronger economy!
Weaker defence, weak economy!
Examples , china usa russia israel france india australia !
Bt agree on 5th gen fighters to be eyed on !

 

[sancho]

Operational loads, the F-16 can carry more and is more suitable as a bomb truck as well.
The F-16 may be secondhand.. but to consider them irrelevant based on a an 'on par' analysis would be disastrous

Nobody has denied that they can carry more load than the JF 17 or J10B, but your point was that they would add more techs to compete with IAF and that is not the case, because PAF is dependent on what the US provides. The Chinese are more open in this regard and are ready to provide higher techs and weapons, that's why 2nd hand F16 can only be easy to integrate fighter to add numbers at the base. But when you want more techs and future potential, PAF has no better option than Chinese fighters.

But with 4th generation fighters increases the number and decrease the number of third generation F-7

Of course, but why take a 2nd hand F16 with limited upgrade potential, over a JF 17 B1 or even B2, that is technologically in the same generation as the F16 B52, but offers the potential to be upgraded with better radars, inflight refuelling and soon even better weapons?
I would be surprised if these 2nd hand F16s would be cheaper than new JF 17s and PAF can induct both types in the same pace today, so there isn't an advantage either and you can simply replace the older gen fighters with more JF 17s or add J10B on the higher end.

 

[indian my friend]

Nobody has denied that they can carry more load than the JF 17 or J10B, but your point was that they would add more techs to compete with IAF and that is not the case, because PAF is dependent on what the US provides. The Chinese are more open in this regard and are ready to provide higher techs and weapons, that's why 2nd hand F16 can only be easy to integrate fighter to add numbers at the base. But when you want more techs and future potential, PAF has no better option than Chinese fighters.



Of course, but why take a 2nd hand F16 with limited upgrade potential, over a JF 17 B1 or even B2, that is technologically in the same generation as the F16 B52, but offers the potential to be upgraded with better radars, inflight refuelling and soon even better weapons?
I would be surprised if these 2nd hand F16s would be cheaper than new JF 17s and PAF can induct both types in the same pace today, so there isn't an advantage either and you can simply replace the older gen fighters with more JF 17s or add J10B on the higher end.

hello sancho nice to meet u i have read ur comments on lca i am new to this site. can i ask ur age and ur work? just wanna know

 

[Storm Force]

F16 is a PHSICOLOGICAL purchase for the PAKISTANIS

Does not make sense from a political guranteed support view point BUT i think the PAF deep down feel the F16 is better today then their current JFT and defo better than F7 & MIRAGES

If they come cheap and many air forces in NATO will start to sell off their older F16s as well as the massive USA fleet then for PAF it makes sense.

MUCH LIKE THE MIRAGE FLEET came for very little cost in the 1980s PAF could add another 50 or so F16 for little or no cost

 

[Windjammer]

F16 is a PHSICOLOGICAL purchase for the PAKISTANIS

Does not make sense from a political guranteed support view point BUT i think the PAF deep down feel the F16 is better today then their current JFT and defo better than F7 & MIRAGES

If they come cheap and many air forces in NATO will start to sell off their older F16s as well as the massive USA fleet then for PAF it makes sense.

MUCH LIKE THE MIRAGE FLEET came for very little cost in the 1980s PAF could add another 50 or so F16 for little or no cost

No it's not.... physiological purchase but unlike most aircraft in IAF/PAF inventory, a battle tested and proven platform.
Apart from the Mirages, it's also the longest serving front line fighter in the PAF with real MRC capability.
Even the older models, once gone through MLU, become as potent as any thing else out there, hence, the PAF's resilience becomes obvious for ever pursuing for the F-16s.

 

[Luftwaffe]

No it's not.... physiological purchase but unlike most aircraft in IAF/PAF inventory, a battle tested and proven platform.
Apart from the Mirages, it's also the longest serving front line fighter in the PAF with real MRC capability.
Even the older models, once gone through MLU, become as potent as any thing else out there, hence, the PAF's resilience becomes obvious for ever pursuing for the F-16s.

For IAF AMRAAMs gives the shivers.

 

[INDIAISM]

Pakistan have the chance to buy Norwegian 45 F-16 and Venezuelan around 16 along with Belgium's 12 that come to 73 MLU F-16 and if Pakistan exercise 18 new Block 52+, 91 F-16 in PAF fleet bring the number of F-16 around 63+91 =154 thats huge .
this aircraft will keep the PAF air superiority for a decent time before J-10B and JF-17 mature enough .

Yes they can buy all this but most important thing that they will have to shell out atleast 4 Billion Dollars if not more for these 91 [73+18] F16 that you are talking about....

 

[batmannow]

I don't wana go deep down to belly botton !
But rellince on US made plateforms now in 2012 is the foolish thing ever to think about!
Arguments like , we can be better off with dam f-16z because our flyboys & technical staff has the experince about it, itself is the weakest one , our pilots learned to fly falcons in very short time they can do this again if its the ask with any other plate forms like Jf-thunder or J-10z or J-16z to counter IAF or any one else.
Same goes to our technical staff they can go into grove with chinse tech fast as they already hve the experince of F7s & PGs & now thunders?
Even we get cheaper F-16s but due to their origion they are dead meat for us?

 

[SQ8]

Nobody has denied that they can carry more load than the JF 17 or J10B, but your point was that they would add more techs to compete with IAF and that is not the case, because PAF is dependent on what the US provides. The Chinese are more open in this regard and are ready to provide higher techs and weapons, that's why 2nd hand F16 can only be easy to integrate fighter to add numbers at the base. But when you want more techs and future potential, PAF has no better option than Chinese fighters.

If you look at the configuration of what the PAF MLU's will be, you will notice that they will be better than their NATO AM/BM counterparts and superior in terms of radar performance to their USAF counterparts as well.
So in essence, they are made into Block 52's..
Now if you are discounting the potential of a F-16 Block 52 standard against any airforce..
I would disagree.. it is a a very potent aircraft.

 

[Storm Force]

Nobody is disputing that the F16 is not the MOST POTENT fighter in PAF.

Any indian would much prefer PAF spent the time & money on JFT & EVEN FC20..

THE CONCERN by some members including pakistanis and especially strategic analysts in GOP is the constant threat of USA sanctions...

FOR PAF AND THE PAKISTAN nation your meduim term goals and ambitions & interests are poles apart. from USA.

MOST IMPORTANTLY will THE AMERICANS SUPPORT YOUR F16 with spares and more munitions especially AMRAAMS during a war ...

I think that is the BIG risk

 

[batmannow]

Nobody is disputing that the F16 is not the MOST POTENT fighter in PAF.

Any indian would much prefer PAF spent the time & money on JFT & EVEN FC20..

THE CONCERN by some members including pakistanis and especially strategic analysts in GOP is the constant threat of USA sanctions...

FOR PAF AND THE PAKISTAN nation your meduim term goals and ambitions & interests are poles apart. from USA.

MOST IMPORTANTLY will THE AMERICANS SUPPORT YOUR F16 with spares and more munitions especially AMRAAMS during a war ...

I think that is the BIG risk

even you are a indian but you are talking a reality, which is in the heart of every patriotic pakistani, the very secret behind inducting more F-16s is more trips to USA & thats simple cause it brings dollors in thier dam pockets?
every tom dick & harry , advocates F-16s inductions in PAF even he himself knows it that we cant use them in any conflict which will not favaouable to our big brother(usa) but they keep pushing for it , cause they never want to see pakistanairforce standing on its feet!

its was going on from past 30 years but if you are a ground soilder in a conflict like kargill, & were pounded by enemy airpower 24/7 & you see your friends dying infront of you just because your dam F-16s arent abble to give you aircover, surly you will never support a fighter plane in your airforce which cant give any fire protection to its ground forces.
& tht happened to me!
so i say no more dam F-16s!
better to hve more JFTs which can be flyable in any form of war, at anytime!

 

[Donatello]

Stronger defence, stronger economy!
Weaker defence, weak economy!
Examples , china usa russia israel france india australia !
Bt agree on 5th gen fighters to be eyed on !

You got that wrong way round. Economy and socio-economic development comes first. Defense follows then.

 

[batmannow]

You got that wrong way round. Economy and socio-economic development comes first. Defense follows then.

its you who got that wrong! buddy?
china is the biggest example, they built vry strong army frist at the times of a person called mao-za-dong, then they built thier economy!
ven british empire captured the world with thier strong navy, so that means they made thier defences stronger frist!
spainish armada, was a strong blast from past!
americans made thier defence stronger frist, & then went to capture all?
& it all happens, cause this world moves with might is right!

 

[Thorough Pro]

Stronger defence, stronger economy!
Weaker defence, weak economy!
Examples , china usa russia israel france india australia !
Bt agree on 5th gen fighters to be eyed on !

I should be the other way round, Stronger Economy, Better Education, Better Health, Better Life, Better law and order, and then stronger defence.

 

[batmannow]

I should be the other way round, Stronger Economy, Better Education, Better Health, Better Life, Better law and order, and then stronger defence.

You wana make it, heavan?
No country has achived it yet , if you think of nowrway ,holland, or denmark yes they hve good education,better health systems but still they way behind in economy & defence & countries like US & russia still play a political pingpong with them !
If we think of germany, & japan yes they have good economy , better education & health but they are just stalite slaves when it comes to USA?
They only can pay whatever , whenever US wants?
Why?
Cause not strong defence or not hve any any right to defend themselves!
So well established economies & well established health & educational systems but still needs hve permission from USA on every major deceion they make regurding this world!
So without, strong & independent defence they are nothing in the world of USA ,RUSSIA,CHINA today.

France, italy , spain poland still way behind then those EU countries bt they are more valued customer to the world & US & NATO jst because they r stronger in defence!
We can think absolte ,heaven bt practicly its , might is right since day 1 in this world, & for might we need strong defence nothing else?

If pakistan hve 800 good fighter planes & 1 & half a million ground force, it will bring security & that security will bring peace & that peace is going to bring good ecomony!
Its all strats with strong defence!