Saudisation of Pakisan

[Sugarcane]

The problem actually began when Pakistan forgot (and eventually disowned) Jinnah-sabb's legacy. Qaid was very clear that Pakistan would be a State where Muslims could live in Peace, Progress and Prosperity. But he did not consider non-Muslims to some kind of "children of a lesser god". He was willing to give the same atmosphere to ALL CITIZENS of Pakistan. That is gone now. The rest has inevitably followed.

The people of Pakistan now have to take ownership of their lives and all that goes with it (thoughts, words and deeds). Otherwise it is easy enough to blame everybody else in the Universe for the existing state of affairs.........

Pakistan movement was based on economic grounds - this religious indoctrination started when one of our great leader thought to make Pakistan "Fort of Islam" and rule the Islamic world from Islamabad - unfortunately, he is still alive but the founder of nation is dead.

 

[muse]

Mao's experiments were reversed - think of it, in China, Mao reversed, yet we seem unable to do it -- We all know the problem and I wish there was someone or some institution to carry this out -- I fear that this whole TTP peace thing will actually result in their regularization, their being absolved of murder, and we will continue to limp along, the infection of Islamism slowly or speedily infecting whats left

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Pakistan movement was based on economic grounds - this religious indoctrination started when one of our great leader thought to make Pakistan "Fort of Islam" and rule the Islamic world from Islamabad - unfortunately, he is still alive but the founder of nation is dead.

I'll give just a short reply for just now. (since I'm trying to write a longer reply to muse to an earlier post of his).
The Pakistan movement was based on socio-economics and politico-religious grounds. The main proponents were two; the feudals (Nawabs, land-owners etc) in India and the Clergy. Both apprehended great losses of power and status when the British departed. They believed that they would be rendered zero in a Country where Hindus would be in a majority. That is how they came together, though they actually had rather divergent objectives.

 

[third eye]

Mao's experiments were reversed - think of it, in China, Mao reversed, yet we seem unable to do it -- We all know the problem and I wish there was someone or some institution to carry this out -- I fear that this whole TTP peace thing will actually result in their regularization, their being absolved of murder, and we will continue to limp along, the infection of Islamism slowly or speedily infecting whats left

Two reasons for success in China on reversal of Mao's ' experiments'.

1. The state was with the intended change and applied itself completely in making the change.

2. There was no religion involved hence, the change happened.

 

[muse]

Two reasons for success in China on reversal of Mao's ' experiments'.

1. The state was with the intended change and applied itself completely in making the change.

2. There was no religion involved hence, the change happened.

Make sense yaar, they went from a communist/socialist to a state capitalist orientation - that is religion - once Dung and his guys managed to sideline Mao an his wife's gang of 4 - they turned the entire state around .

 

[Hyperion]

Lala, I totally agree with you. I don't either. I am just trying to wake up the majority you refereed to with some historical perspective.

@Hyperion Great read, however i do not blame Zia Ul Haq any longer for spreading this extremist venom in our society. Its been 24 years since the pitiful demise of Zia, the fault lies with us silent majority for being silent and not challenging them in their tracks.

 

[third eye]

Make sense yaar, they went from a communist/socialist to a state capitalist orientation - that is religion - once Dung and his guys managed to sideline Mao an his wife's gang of 4 - they turned the entire state around .

Thats just the point I want to make.

They had no religious interpretations on how a state should be run to put a spanner in the works.

A decision was taken after due analysis on where the then existing system has taken them and would do if not altered. Once taken , all that was needed was to implement it to the hilt.

No ' scholars' whose could interpret the books and were directly ' one on one' with the almighty, no ' speed breakers'.

 

[Hyperion]

Yups I agree. Yara, I'm not an idiot. You need to understand why I am bashing one person over and over and over and over again? The radicals feed this line to your average citizens that "THIS IS THE PAKISTAN, THIS IS HOW IT ALWAYS WAS, ANYONE TRIES TO CHANGE IT, OFF WITH HIS/HER HEAD".

My rants, if you will, are to tell the silent majority that, HELL NO, this is not what Pakistan was created for, we used to be peaceful progressive people... etc etc...

Regarding the reforms part? I'll leave that in yours and others capable hands, contact me about the "radical" part, that I am fluent in!

Lalay mr, Zia died 25 years ago - So, he is not the only Mard-e-Momin, he inherited khalafat and passed on to next. So - targeting the one who died decades ago will not solve anything, there are many who are still alive and are on holy mission.

@Topic: Radical reforms are needed to deal with radicals. Ban all funding from our Arab brothers, and scholarships from Persian brothers, ban the religious organizations, regulate mosques. And most important we need to fix our education system & make education available for every kid on war foot basis.

 

[muse]

Thats just the point I want to make.

They had no religious interpretations on how a state should be run to put a spanner in the works.

A decision was taken after due analysis on where the then existing system has taken them and would do if not altered. Once taken , all that was needed was to implement it to the hilt.

No ' scholars' whose could interpret the books and were directly ' one on one' with the almighty, no ' speed breakers'.

Communism/maoism, not a religion?? Did not have a ideology as to how state should be run? What then was the revolution about? No interpretation of communism? Marxism, Leninism, Frankfurt school??? You are not being serious

 

[Hyperion]

LOL... Me a Qadiani? Thanks man! After reading your pathetic lies, now I really feel as if I am on the right path of cleansing your kind, along with your closest genetic match. Cheers.

@Developereo, here, another fundo for you to enlighten.

a good read indeed is the novel mirza and the latrine factory......

seculars have a problem with General Zia cause he gave danda(stick) to qadianis like somebozo and hyperion.
they still feel the pain to this date....


bottom line is a moulvi has never assumed executive power in this country....he never ran a government....was bhutto a moulvi when Pakistan got divided?



instead Jaamat e Islami gave their lives for a united Pakistan in 1971......


qadianis on other hand have conspired to break Pakistan so that they can travel to the latrine factory in india without any visa restrictions.

during 1965 war a huge qadiani conspiray was unearthed and eliminated in sialkot were local qadianis were supporting indian invasion of sialkot.....if you dont trust me...go and ask Air commodore M.M.Alam ....what local qadianis were doing during 1965 and 1971 war.

qadianis have a huge head quarter in tel aviv,israel which is funded by israeli government...you can find it on google search....thats why you will see a qadiani pop up every now and then talking about Pakistan,,,,israel relations....
@somebozo @Hyperion @SHAMK9 @FaujHistorian @mirza

 

[third eye]

Communism/maoism, not a religion?? Did not have a ideology as to how state should be run? What then was the revolution about? No interpretation of communism? Marxism, Leninism, Frankfurt school??? You are not being serious

They themselves were the Judge ,Jury & executioner.

They had no one to Q them on how to turn things around. The party cadres were indoctrinated to stay on board. In short , everything to drive the change was within.

Compare this with nations where religion is the common thread and the threads are manipulated from a distant land. The religion is not ' indigenous' hence open to interpretation & manipulation from outside the state control.

 

[Hyperion]

Houston had a problem at launch, @ point 1. Rest was momentum he was building up to. The same momentum has been building up for 3 decades in rest of the society... Houston we are ******

Let's analyze the content without histrionics.

The author
1- was indoctrinated to be obsessively religious -- a bit extreme, but not criminal.

2- convinced his parents to follow some routines -- again nothing new. check out some environmentalist or vegetarians to see how they pester those around them.

3- was politically active -- again, nothing wrong

4- took up arms -- houston, we have a problem!

So, out of all the above, the only problematic issue is #4 (resorting to violence). As always, when we lose focus and let anti-Arab, anti-Islam obsession cloud the issue, we steer away from solutions.

Our problem is the belief that disagreements can be resolved by vigilante justice outside the law.

 

[muse]

LOL... Me a Qadiani? Thanks man! After reading your pathetic lies, now I really feel as if I am on the right path of cleansing your kind, along with your closest genetic match. Cheers. D

Just wear it like a badge of honor - If making sense makes you a Qaidiani, then that's what you'll have to be

 

[Hyperion]

Meray dost, don't you see that all of the mentioned points by our friend are interlinked? You have such a wonderful vocabulary, yet lack the wisdom to comprehend the intricacies of cause and effect.

Thats because we all see what we want to see & therefore more often than not both the 'ayes' & the 'nays' end up situating the appraisal instead of appraising the situation !

Nope, it's quiet opposite. Up until the end of 90's, your assumptions were correct. At the moment, the majority of population is radicalized and the politicians can't do **** all about that, if they go against them, they loose the vote bank. So what does a politician do, when his vote bank is threatened? He goes along with the public.

As I explained, they are the primary threat and sponsors of the secondary problems. Nor can their wings be clipped, which leads to frustration and redirects anger at manageable targets like the middleman mullahs instead of the root cause.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Make sense yaar, they went from a communist/socialist to a state capitalist orientation - that is religion - once Dung and his guys managed to sideline Mao an his wife's gang of 4 - they turned the entire state around .

Sure that their Communism was a Religion. Also it is sure that they changed their Religion.
But the fact is that the change was initiated by the Priests (or Thekedaars) of that particular Religion; not by the followers! That is how it was done and that is why it succeeded!