Saudisation of Pakisan

[Hyperion]

Dude, if you don't troll pointlessly so often, where you tend to loose sight and objectivity, I'd even follow you!

You seem to have got it wrong.
The Elite (Political and Military) may have created the "Middleman Mullas" but this very same Middleman Mullas and similar forces have gone well out of the control of the Elite. Now Frankenstein is in a position to destroy his Creator.
Unless the Elite (Political and Military) develop the will (and cojones) to reassert themselves and put down the "constituency of the righteous" who are even able to claim Divine Sanction. Remember that even the Elite has not been able to claim Divine Sanction so far!

As for the common people (Awaam), they are the least important and the most expendable factor in this equation.

 

[Developereo]

Houston had a problem at launch, @ point 1. Rest was momentum he was building up to. The same momentum has been building up for 3 decades in rest of the society... Houston we are ******

That's where I disagree.

Devoting your life to Islam is not a crime.
Vigilanteeism is, or should be.

I fear that this whole TTP peace thing will actually result in their regularization, their being absolved of murder, and we will continue to limp along, the infection of Islamism slowly or speedily infecting whats left

We must learn from our mistakes in Swat.

Negotiating with the TTP does not mean accepting their ideology, or even allowing it to continue. It would be an ultimatum: renounce these elements of your ideology or face extinction. The hardcore fanatics will not agree and will need to be killed, but we should be able to salvage a large number of our countrymen without killing them.

We must understand what it is that motivates some tribal communities to support the fundamentalists. I believe it is the fear of losing their traditional culture to the monster of global homogeneity. While some aspects of their traditional are indeed outdated and must be phased out, we need to convince them that their concerns can be addressed in the context of modernity and Islam without succumbing to the extremists' sales pitch.

Once again, Imran Khan understands these issues, which is something the urban liberals are too posh to bother wasting their time doing.

Nope, it's quiet opposite. Up until the end of 90's, your assumptions were correct. At the moment, the majority of population is radicalized and the politicians can't do **** all about that, if they go against them, they loose the vote bank. So what does a politician do, when his vote bank is threatened? He goes along with the public.

Nope. The vote bank of the feudal lord is rock solid; his people are his slaves.

The rural masses will do what their feudal lord tells them to. If the feudal lord installs a specific kind of maulvi, it will guide the people towards a particular mindset. It won't be an instant switch, but a gradual shifting of ideologies preached by the village maulvi.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Dude, if you don't troll pointlessly so often, where you tend to loose sight and objectivity, I'd even follow you!

lol, @Hyperion. You do forget that this is Defence Forum, where the majority of posts are about Toilets, poverty, Rapes and similar "Defence-related topics"!
Can't help it; too many 'snotties' around. Back in the days, I could make them front-roll around the Quarter Deck. Now..............

 

[muse]

That's where I disagree.

Devoting your life to Islam is not a crime.
Vigilanteeism is, or should be.


We must learn from our mistakes in Swat.

Negotiating with the TTP does not mean accepting their ideology, or even allowing it to continue. It would be an ultimatum: renounce these elements of your ideology or face extinction. The hardcore fanatics will not agree and will need to be killed, but we should be able to salvage a large number of our countrymen without killing them.

We must understand what it is that motivates some tribal communities to support the fundamentalists. I believe it is the fear of losing their traditional culture to the monster of global homogeneity. While some aspects of their traditional are indeed outdated and must be phased out, we need to convince them that their concerns can be addressed in the context of modernity and Islam without succumbing to the extremists' sales pitch.

Once again, Imran Khan understands these issues, which is something the urban liberals are too posh to bother wasting their time doing.

Nope.

The rural masses will do what their feudal lord tells them to. If the feudal lord installs a specific kind of maulvi, it will guide the people towards a particular mindset.

OMG dude - I'm stunned, more like shocked - salvage the TTP, eh? Understand them, eh? OK

 

[Jango]

OMG dude - I'm stunned, more like shocked - salvage the TTP, eh? Understand them, eh? OK

I think he meant putting more 16-22 year olds in Rehab centres that Army has constructed.

 

[Developereo]

OMG dude - I'm stunned, more like shocked - salvage the TTP, eh? Understand them, eh? OK

To me, the TTP and their ideology is like druglords and drugs.

We have to kill the druglords and the pushers, but we want to reeducate as many of the addicts as we can.

 

[Hyperion]

There is no facility in the world which can handle 2 - 5 million people....

"Laton kay bhoot, baton say nahin mantay!"

I think he meant putting more 16-22 year olds in Rehab centres that Army has constructed.

 

[Developereo]

There is no facility in the world which can handle 2 - 5 million people....

"Laton kay bhoot, baton say nahin mantay!"

So you want to massacre 2-5 million Pakistanis because you don't believe in rehabilitation?

 

[Hyperion]

@Developereo @muse, Gentlemen, we can all agree with each other. My problem is neither one of you. Both of you make sense theoretically at least. I want to see other radicals on this forum to come out and comment here. Where are they all hiding?

 

[Jango]

There is no facility in the world which can handle 2 - 5 million people....

"Laton kay bhoot, baton say nahin mantay!"

Nobody is saying to handle 2-5 million people.

You must have seen that 14 year old suicide bomber case in Peshawar last year...that kid should right now be in a rehab centre rather than in jail IMO. Those are the kind of people I am talking about.

I ain't advocating peace with the Taliban..no way..they should be killed...but these young children they kidnap and then brainwash should be reintegrated into the society.

 

[Hyperion]

Nope I don't. You still don't get me, do you?

Every radical grouping always has an "alpha", home in on those 100,000 - 200,000 "Alpha's" and execute them publicly, and make the rest go on reform crash course.

The thing is, if you don't follow the above mentioned approach, 10 years down the road you'll have only two options:

A. Civil War.
B. Someone way powerful will come and bomb ALL of us to kingdom come.

Think about it, what's better?

So you want to massacre 2-5 million Pakistanis because you don't believe in rehabilitation?

 

[Developereo]

Nope I don't. You still don't get me, do you?

Every radical grouping always has an "alpha", home in on those 100,000 - 200,000 "Alpha's" and execute them publicly, and make the rest go on reform crash course.

The thing is, if you don't follow the above mentioned approach, 10 years down the road you'll have only two options:

A. Civil War.
B. Someone way powerful will come and bomb ALL of us to kingdom come.

Think about it, what's better?

That's not what you were prescribing before with your Ataturk approach of killing everyone with a beard or hijab. Sorry if I misunderstood your earlier position.

I am glad to see that you are now advocating the same thing that Imran Khan and the rest of us have been saying all along.

 

[Kompromat]

I, call for a singular education system in Pakistan. Nationalization of all madrassas,regulating Zakat,Ushr,Fitrana and other forms of charity that is used by these idiots in a way that contradicts the Islamic doctrine in relation to those charities. No one should be allowed to address the public unless they are licensed, and in order to get licensed they need to obtain a Bachelors degree in Islamiyat, even for as basic addresses as a local Masjid.

I want terrorism, extremism and other issues to be wiped out of our society today, but is it practical or a pipedream?. We must take the go slow approach,do not restrict people's believes. We can only spread liberty and carry out, de-radicalization by being free and allowing space for others to create solutions. We must take on board those who just want to practice Islam and as @Developereo suggested are not interested in taking up arms. We must understand that we are up against, a tiny fraction of our population, we are up against foreign powers ie Arabs and Iranians who are willing to fight a turf war in our country.


We can only conceive and create a solution once we take all dimensions into account, however for implementing such measures we need a government that is willing to solve this issue and create a social change instead of going berserk.

 

[Hyperion]

Dude, AtaTurk didn't kill the whole population. His problem was way bigger. He executed something in the range of 300,000 to 500,000. That worked wonderfully. All imams (check) Anything written in Arabic text (check) Anyone giving sermons without license (check)

The beard and the hijab is like a virus which has spread to every cell of Pakistan's body, it could have been stopped long way back during the 80's only, not any longer! So what can we do about that? Manage it like AIDS. We have to learn how to live with it. Obviously we can't kill 50% population of Pakistan!

That's not what you were prescribing before with your Ataturk approach of killing everyone with a beard or hijab.

I am glad to see that you are now advocating the same thing that Imran Khan and the rest of us have been saying all along.

 

[Jango]

I, call for a singular education system in Pakistan. Nationalization of all madrassas,regulating Zakat,Ushr,Fitrana and other forms of charity that is used by these idiots in a way that contradicts the Islamic doctrine of those charities. No one should be allowed to address the public unless they are licensed, and in order to get licensed they need to obtain a Bachelors degree in Islamiyat, even for as basic addresses as a local Masjid.

I want terrorism, extremism and other issues to be wiped out of our society today, but is it practical or a pipedream?. We must take the go slow approach,do not restrict people's believes. We can only spread liberty and radicalization by being free and allowing space for others to create solutions. We must take on board those who just want to practice Islam and as @Developero suggested are not interested in taking up arms. We must understand that we are up against, a tiny fraction of our population, we are up against foreign powers ie Arabs and Iranians who are willing to fight a turf war in our country.


We can only conceive and create a solution once we take all dimensions into account, however for implementing such measures we need a government that is willing to solve this issue and create a social change instead of going berserk.

Our's is a country where even the car license plates and SIM's aren't regulated and recorded...a herculean task you have described!

Huge Madrassas are growing in the middle of Islamabad, with 15 foot walls topped with barbed wires, bearded boys manning the gates with sticks in hand, and iron grilled windows.