Saudi Arabia ends an almost decade-old $560 million aid program to Bosnia

[BLACKEAGLE]

I dunno why Pakistan still has Dual-Nationality in place !

So can someone become a Jordanian through marriage, my love ?

We have already became a minority in our own country, whole big suburbs without a single Jordanian except the police, , a small country with 6 million population, have 1 million Egyptians, 300 thousand Syrians, 500 thousand Iraqis, hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, tens of thousands of Lebanese, Yemenis, Libyans and S/E people. Not to mention the gulf Arabs and Western tourists. If the government allowed granting nationalities, well, say good bye to Jordan. However, getting a Jordanian nationality is almost impossible even with marrying a Jordanian.

 

[Armstrong]

We have already became a minority in our own country, whole big suburbs without a single Jordanian except the police, , a small country with 6 million population, have 1 million Egyptians, 300 thousand Syrians, 500 thousand Iraqis, hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, tens of thousands of Lebanese, Yemenis, Libyans and S/E people. Not to mention the gulf Arabs and Western tourists. If the government allowed granting nationalities, well, say good bye to Jordan. However, getting a Jordanian nationality is almost impossible even with marrying a Jordanian.

We've got 4-6 million Afghans, 2 million Bengalis & perhaps 2-3 million or so other ethnicities - all illegally in Pakistan or as refugees !

But then again we're nearly 200 million strong & we do breed like rabbits !

You guys need to have good fertility doctors over there in Jordan !

 

[Chak Bamu]

During the war between Bosnia and Serbia, Pakistan, Iran, and Turkey were the leading contributors to the Bosnians in defending thier country against ethnic cleansing by Serbs.

GOP also gave a small loan of a few million dollars to Government of Bosnia.

The Serbs had a campaign of ethnic cleansing and specially targeted and destroyed Mosques. Rebuilding them was important for not only religious, but also cultural reasons.

The campaign for raising awareness of the Bosnian genocide was my first experience in political activism. Apart from providing moral and financial support to Bosnians, Muslims in USA made various rallies and marches in different cities. The effort culminated in a gathering of many thousands in Washington DC. We marched from White House to Capitol, along the Mall. A Congressman came to address us while our leaders made speeches. It was the first national political act by Muslims in USA. It was an occasion of pride for us. Some Muslims of African American descent were emotional and told stories of the Civil Rights movement of 60s. The US government's position soon changed and it engaged the two sides and pushed for peace. The active American involvement was the crucial factor in achieving peace and saving Bosnia from disintegration and ethnic cleansing.

KSA's contribution came a little later and was crucial in getting the country back on its feet.

Saving Bosnian statehood was the most positive project undertaken by our Ummah in the 90s. The Kosovo campaign was an extension of it. It is one thing for which Americans deserve credit.

 

[Armstrong]

During the war between Bosnia and Serbia, Pakistan, Iran, and Turkey were the leading contributors to the Bosnians in defending thier country against ethnic cleansing by Serbs.

What was our contribution ?

 

[al-Hasani]

@al-Hasani : Bro, perhaps I'm not able to articulate myself well enough !

(a) No aid, no donations...no nothing of the sort is needed ! The rest of us can only learn to stand up for ourselves & with our dignity intact if all of that stops.

(b) What I suggested was what the Americans, the British or some of the more developed countries do - Attract the best & the brightest from across the world by providing them with scholarships, handsome stipends & salaries & then use their expertise, competence & attitude to make valued added additions to the US Economy whether it be by coming up with innovative research, best governed corporations etc.

Likewise, if there are enough Universities in KSA, which as @Mosamania tells me there aren't, perhaps KSA, Turkey & Indonesia/Malaysia some of the up & coming economies of the world can do as well by attracting the best & the brightest from across the world & in particular the Muslim World !

There won't be a significant cultural clash because of a similar religion & religion does leave an indelible mark on one's culture & the dividends accrued in terms of building goodwill would be enormous in addition to the obvious benefits of having some of the most competent Muslim minds out there working for you !

Just a suggestion....nothing definitive !

Providing donations for people in need - especially fellow Muslims should not be considered as a attack on your dignity. You see the same concept when giving Zakat. It only becomes a problem when that country can only survive on the donations which is not the case with any country that was given aid by KSA apart from a very short time during a war/natural disasters. Remember the earthquake in Pakistan? Was it in 2005? Many donations came from KSA and I am sure most people were very grateful about it.

Well, that concept is already somewhat in place although it needs further development. I am sure you know this already but many Western people (highly educated and skilled) work and live in KSA and contribute. Likewise others. Because they see benefits. As long as both parties can provide benefits to each other it will be a success.

There are not enough of universities right now considering the rapidly increasing demand and the population growth. What I was merely saying was that intelligent measures in the education sector have taken place in the last few years. So despite it not being a fully developed project yet there are clear improvements.

I am all for a exchange project among Muslim countries. If I am not wrong they already exists in some cases.

Well, there are many clever and highly skilled Muslim immigrants in KSA but the majority are still low-skilled and that's not something you want as country because as in every society not all people will be academics so those who are not must have something to do/contribute with and if there are no low-skilled jobs because foreigners have taken them because they are willing to due the work cheaper then the employees will pick them and those people will be a burden on the society. This can be seen in KSA and also in Western Europe. All due to immigration.

All I am saying is that there must be a system that works for both parties. Quite frankly I don't want KSA or any other Arab country to turn into a UAE. They might benefit from it but there are also huge disadvantages and many foreigners/non-nationals use the money they have earned in their homelands. So capital is moving away from UAE.

 

[mehmeTcc]

During the war between Bosnia and Serbia, Pakistan, Iran, and Turkey were the leading contributors to the Bosnians in defending thier country against ethnic cleansing by Serbs.

GOP also gave a small loan of a few million dollars to Government of Bosnia.

The Serbs had a campaign of ethnic cleansing and specially targeted and destroyed Mosques. Rebuilding them was important for not only religious, but also cultural reasons.

The campaign for raising awareness of the Bosnian genocide was my first experience in political activism. Apart from providing moral and financial support to Bosnians, Muslims in USA made various rallies and marches in different cities. The effort culminated in a gathering of many thousands in Washington DC. We marched from White House to Capitol, along the Mall. A Congressman came to address us while our leaders made speeches. It was the first national political act by Muslims in USA. It was an occasion of pride for us. Some Muslims of African American descent were emotional and told stories of the Civil Rights movement of 60s. The US government's position soon changed and it engaged the two sides and pushed for peace. The active American involvement was the crucial factor in achieving peace and saving Bosnia from disintegration and ethnic cleansing.

KSA's contribution came a little later and was crucial in getting the country back on its feet.

Saving Bosnian statehood was the most positive project undertaken by our Ummah in the 90s. The Kosovo campaign was an extension of it. It is one thing for which Americans deserve credit.

^^^^
Yeah, unlike Arabs and Iranians, Turkish intelligence and TurAF was also active in kicking Serbian azz. Frankly, Arabs have no business in Balkans. We converted them, we have responsibility of them.

 

[al-Hasani]

^^^^
Yeah, unlike Arabs and Iranians, Turkish intelligence and TurAF was also active in kicking Serbian azz. Frankly, Arabs have no business in Balkans. We converted them, we have responsibility of them.

LOL, and who converted you guys? Also the Balkans are tiny states. Bosnia is divided into three parts. A Serbian, Croatian and Bosniak area. Only the Bosniak (accounts to 48 percent of the population) are Muslims. Then there is only Kosovo and Albania that is Muslim. And most of the Muslims there are only Muslims by name. And many are not that found of Turks anyway. Skanderbeg is the national hero of Albanian (the only majority Muslim country in Europe) and he was a Catholic Albanian who fought the Ottomans.

Also you Ottomans adopted Arabic as the language of the state, your alphabet as well. In fact the Ottoman Empire was just a extension of the earlier Arab Caliphates who played way bigger roles for Islam and the spread of Islam.

Anyway the bravest warriors and elite regiments during the Bosnian war were founded and entrusted to Arabs - mostly from KSA. There are even a few hundred that are left and who have assimilated and married locals. Serbs fascists still remember the defeats they suffered. Some even became headless chickens at some point so they won't be able to tell it though.

 

[Surenas]

LOL, and who converted you guys?

Persians converted Turks, but that doesn't matter. What matters is that historically Turks had the largest influence in the Balkan, and they will never let Arabs to replace them.

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

^^^^
Yeah, unlike Arabs and Iranians, Turkish intelligence and TurAF was also active in kicking Serbian azz. Frankly, Arabs have no business in Balkans. We converted them, we have responsibility of them.

If it was for Turks alone, they would have been annihilated by now. Arab countries, Turkey, Iran and Pakistan support was without adopt heroic.

 

[Surenas]

And most people forget about Iranian support for Bosnians. There are still graves of Iranian IRGC in Bosnia.

 

[Chak Bamu]

What was our contribution ?

We were instrumental. Bosnians had no tanks and very little with which to defend themselves against armor. We provided Baktar-Shikan missiles that took care of Serb armor. We provided other arms as well. There were many ex-Pak army people who went to Bosnia. The highest rank of which I know was a former commander of SSG, a major General.

The expatriate Pakistani community was very active in organizing relief and economic help. The first publicized case of organized relief was that of a Paksitani-British businessman from England (Manchester?) who started on his own initiative. But I should also point out that all the Muslim nationalities did one thing or the other to help Bosnian Muslims avert catastrophe. Some of those people would today be called AQ sympathizers, but back in those days, there was no distinction. It was a project in which we all shared. Arabs, Pakistanis, Turks, Iranians, even Bangladeshis, among others.

When today on this forum I read young people disowning Ummah sentiments, calling Arabs names, and openly questioning trans-national influence of Islam, I feel disturbed. With our generation, it was nothing like that. In 90s AQ had not come onto the scene. 9/11 had not happened. WOT was being planned by some in Washington, but not openly discussed. OBL was busy finding a home after being muzzled by Saudis. You know the whole thing between USSR's disintegration (and 1st Gulf war) and 9/11. A young Muslim like myself then was by default an internationalist. WOT has taken away a lot. Most of all our younger generation. There is a reason I hate Musharraf with a passion.

 

[mehmeTcc]

LOL, and who converted you guys? Also the Balkans are tiny states. Bosnia is divided into three parts. A Serbian, Croatian and Bosniak area. Only the Bosniak (accounts to 48 percent of the population) are Muslims. Then there is only Kosovo and Albania that is Muslim. And most of the Muslims there are only Muslims by name. And many are not that found of Turks anyway. Skanderbeg is the national hero of Albanian (the only majority Muslim country in Europe) and he was a Catholic Albanian who fought the Ottomans.

Also you Ottomans adopted Arabic as the language of the state, your alphabet as well. In fact the Ottoman Empire was just a extension of the earlier Arab Caliphates who played way bigger roles for Islam and the spread of Islam.

Anyway the bravest warriors and elite regiments during the Bosnians war were founded and entrusted to Arabs - mostly from KSA. There are even a few hundred that are left and who have assimilated married locals. Serbs fascists still remember the defeats they got. Some became headless chickens at some point so they won't be able to tell it though.

Only Turks migrated to Arabia adopted Arabic as their state language, you know, few guys from Central Asia comes and conquers whole Egypt and Levant.
Ottomans also claimed the title of Roman ceasership, what about now then? Ottomans had to find something to control their Arab citizens, and the title of caliphate was there. It is geopolitics dear.
And unlike Persians, Turks converted to Islam with their own logic. The guys who didn't want to be Muslim fought with Arabs and they did beat them.

Arabs can fight and die. They still don't have business in Balkans.

If it was for Turks alone, they would have been annihilated by now. Arab countries, Turkey, Iran and Pakistan support was without adopt heroic.

I was not referring to Chak Bamu's post, but to Hasan's post about Bosnians learning Arabic, because it is lame.

 

[Surenas]

And unlike Persians, Turks converted to Islam with their own logic.

Unlike Turks, we made our own Islam. It was Iranian Islam that was brought to the Turks. Not Arab Islam.

 

[Chak Bamu]

^^^^
Yeah, unlike Arabs and Iranians, Turkish intelligence and TurAF was also active in kicking Serbian azz. Frankly, Arabs have no business in Balkans. We converted them, we have responsibility of them.

Sorry to disagree with you. I had the pleasure of attending to the Grand Mufti of Bosnia during the war when he came to USA. He said that Bogomils (Bosnian Muslims) had started to convert before conquest by Ottomans. It was Sufi influence and the aversion of conflict between Catholic and Orthodox Christians that nudged Bogomils to Islam.

 

[mehmeTcc]

Unlike Turks, we made our own Islam. It was Iranian Islam that was brought to the Turks. Not Arab Islam.

First of all, you can't made your own Islam. Anyways this reminds me something, many of the religious terminology in Turkish doesn't come from Arabic, but from Persian.