Saudi Arabia ends an almost decade-old $560 million aid program to Bosnia

[Armstrong]

ISI trained and fought alongside Bosnian militia. You can search info online, ISI was very active in Bosnia and if you do not find anything ask Bosnians about Pakistan and watch how much they gush about us.

I'll make use of that the next time I flirt with a beautiful Bosnian lady !

 

[Chak Bamu]

@mehmeTcc, @Surenas, @al-Hasani,

This is the problem with Muslims. If we did anything for our Bosnian brothers, we did for their being part of our Ummah. Not because Turks converted them, or Arabs did this, or Iranians are superior, or Paksitanis that. Should nationalism be an issue in this discussion? If I started this, then I apologize. I was merely trying to make a point.

 

[Surenas]

Iran provided the largest support to Bosnians:

In 1996, just after the Bosnian war ended, the U.S. House Committee on International Relations launched an investigation into America’s role in Iranian arms transfers to Croatia and Bosnia. Their investigation found that the Iranian government had provided a full two-thirds of the Bosnian-Muslims’ military hardware.

According to their report, “Iran ordered senior members of its Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps (“IRGC”), the elite force used to advance militant Islam, to travel to Bosnia to survey the military needs of the government. IRGC trainers taught the Muslims how to use anti-tank missiles and helped with troop logistics and weapons factories. The IRGC also incorporated religious indoctrination into military training. Iran used this leverage to urge Hizballah to send foreign fighters to the region as members of the Mujahideen. The effort was successful, and a force of thousands drawn from several pro-Iranian groups and other Islamic Opposition movements assembled in Bosnia.”

Setting the Record Straight on Bosnia

 

[KingMamba]

There is no people on this earth who have contributed, and developed, Islam like the Persians. You can't deny that.

Yes and we thank our Persian brothers who loved Islam as much as we do and spent much of their lives in promoting the one true faith. Back in the day Persians, Arabs, and Turks were all proud Muslims and did not let race change anything between them unlike today where all of you guys are at each other's throats.

 

[mehmeTcc]

@mehmeTcc, @Surenas, @al-Hasani,

This is the problem with Muslims. If we did anything for our Bosnian brothers, we did for their being part of our Ummah. Not because Turks converted them, or Arabs did this, or Iranians are superior, or Paksitanis that. Should nationalism be an issue in this discussion? If I started this, then I apologize. I was merely trying to make a point.

I don't care much about Persians or about Arabs. For me, it is the Turkish people only matters. For the record, I don't believe in Ummah. I believe Iranians and Arabs are thinking like me too.

 

[tyrant]

Funny that each thread finally ends in RACE.

 

[Desert Fox]

ISI trained and fought alongside Bosnian militia. You can search info online, ISI was very active in Bosnia and if you do not find anything ask Bosnians about Pakistan and watch how much they gush about us.

ISI never fought alongside them, though they did provide them weapons. Very rarely do intelligence officials participate in battles due to the risk of being captured by the opposing forces.

Iran provided more military assistance during the Balkan conflict.

 

[KingMamba]

I'll make use of that the next time I flirt with a beautiful Bosnian lady !

-The ISI was involved in supplying arms to the warring parties in Bosnia-Herzegovina to protect themselves from Serbian attacks.

Frontline Pakistan: The Struggle With Militant Islam By Zahid Hussain, Columbia University Press, 2008 , p 27.

ISI never fought alongside them, though they did provide them weapons though. Very rarely do intelligence officials participate in battles due to the risk of being captured by the opposing forces.

Iran provided more military assistance during the Balkan conflict.

You may be right but the Bosnians I have come across claim some Pakistanis fought alongside them so I guess since there is no definitive source for this we can assume either they did not or they did not get caught.

 

[Desert Fox]

In terms of spreading extremism among Islamic and European countries too.

I wouldn't be surprised if most of that money was used in setting up "boy scout camps" and "educational" facilities, ahem ahem, if you know what i mean.

 

[Surenas]

I wouldn't be surprised if most of that money was used in setting up "boy scout camps" and "educational" facilities, ahem ahem, if you know what i mean.

I know exactly what you mean, and I fully agree.

 

[Desert Fox]

You may be right but the Bosnians I have come across claim some Pakistanis fought alongside them so I guess since there is no definitive source for this we can assume either they did not or they did not get caught.

Then they must have been fighters channeled in from North West Pakistan and former Afghan resistance members as was the case in the Nogorno Karabagh conflict.

They also could not have been the PAKBAT UN peacekeeping forces since that would have went against the terms for which they were deployed in that region, ie, not to interfere in the conflict unless their area of control came under direct threat from the Serbians, which in a few cases it did thus the casualties the PAKBAT suffered, but these were isolated incidents.

 

[al-Hasani]

We all know that Arabs have played the by far biggest role in Islam for obvious reasons. Islam itself originates in Arab lands and is centered around Arab individuals, culture and traditions. Apart from that there is only one Islam. There is nothing called Albanian, Pakistani or Arab Islam. When you pray you pray in Arabic. All sects, regardless of interpretations are all unified with the above. Islam, unlike Christianity and nearly all other religions never changed it's face/integral aspects regardless of sect or where it gained foothold. That's why the Iranian alphabet, Urdo, Pashto and other Muslim countries base their alphabet on the Arabic language. Why the Ottomans did that as well until Ataturk and why Arabic was always the language of Islam and is that to this very day. Without Arabs no Islam. It is very simple. Islam is not Christianity and never was.

Iran, Turkey etc. were all converted by Arabs and influenced by them. Arab armies defeated and conquered all of Persia and later modern day Turkey and they even reached Caucasus where there are still ancient Arab villages to this very day were the locals speak a special dialect of Arabic. The spread of Islam is tied naturally to Arabs and without Arabs there would be no spread of Islam in any place outside of Hejaz.

The Seljuk Turks only gained independence after they were already converted by the Arabs.

Islam in Balkan was spread by Turks indeed but Islam already reached those areas way before any Turks reached Balkan let alone settled in modern-day Turkey. Arabic geographers reached Northern Europe a few decades after Prophet Muhammad's (saws) death.

Arab armies were a few km away from the gates of Paris CENTURIES before Turkic people even began to spread Islam. The earliest mosques built outside the Arab world were built by Arab Muslims. The first contact to Islam in those areas I mentioned before came at the hands of Arabs.

Parts of the Arab world are much more developed than Turkey (Iran should not even be included in a comparison they are not even better off than a Arab country like Libya) and historically it was even more apparent where the wealth and advancements took place. In Arab lands.

Simple as that really and ALL SECULAR Turks and Persian equal Islam with Arab culture and still cry to this very day that they were conquered and submitted by Arabs. This is the reality and it is even seen on this forum. Speaks volume and says it all.

The biggest donations came from KSA and no country have given as much aid to Bosnia as KSA. Read the article that started this thread. Over half a BILLION Dollars. Give me sources that says that anyone else gave as much in donations until today.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Well, we actually did. Spiritual and mystical Islam (Sufism) is a Persian product.



- George Allen.

Nobody has to take Orientalists' word for anything. Trying to find a nationalist twist in religion is just plain wrong. If @al-Hasani tries to insert ideas of Arab superiority into this discusssion, he is wrong. If you my friend try to find a version of Islam inside Sufism, then you are wrong. What does nationalism have to do with anything here? The people to whom any of you are pointing to as better had no notions of modern day nation states. They probably did not care. If they had some way of knowing, they would not care.
@al-Hasani, Our Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said that no Arab had a claim to superiority over a non-Arab and vice versa. The better Muslim is the one who has Taqwa. @Surenas, saying that Sufism is an Iranian invention is to discredit it. Sufism is as old as Islam itself, precisely because our heritage is Islamic, you can not have Zorastrian Sufism for example. Awais Qarni was not Iranian, neither was Hasan Basari, nor Ayyadh, nor any of the other fore-runners.

I am sorry that I started talking about Ummah, clearly people who laugh at us for caring for Ummah are correct. We are too far broken into fragments to be of any use.

Naom Chomsky's tweets yesterday (15 Feb) are good reflections on idea of Nation States. Some of us might actually benefit from them.

 

[KingMamba]

Well nobody should be taking surenas seriously anyway because he is a non-Muslim who hates Islam in Persia and blames Islam for the problems Iran faces. This is the same guy who told me in another conversation that they are not proud of Salman Al Farsi just because he was a Muslim who converted long before the Arabs conquered Persia. The only reason he bring up Persian influence over Islam is because he wants to get Arabs, Turks, and Persians to fight and hate each other.

 

[al-Hasani]

Nobody is saying that Arabs are superior or anyone else for that matter. At least not me.

All I am saying is that Arabs have played the biggest role in Islam which is well-known and that it were the Arabs and nobody else who spread Islam to the world and outside of Hejaz. Hence why Islam is closely tied to Arab identity, customs, traditions, language etc. Without Arabs there would be no Islam. It's really simple.

Also I correctly pointed out that there is no Arab or Pakistani Islam. Islam is the same in all countries. Islam has been left unchanged and it's teachings have remained the same - especially the integral parts. The Qur'an gave the guidance as did the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad (saws).

All Muslims pray to Allah (swt), all adore, respect and agree that Prophet Muhammad (saws) is the last prophet, all pray towards the ka'abah in Makkah and all take their guidance from the Holy Qur'an and the Prophet of the Sunnah.

Hence why every single cleric in Islam - regardless of sect must have some level of the Arabic language in order to transmit the teachings of Islam in the most appropriate way.

Even most Muslim names if not all are Arabic of nature. I don't think anyone can despute anything of the above. Apart from that then nobody has ever claimed that Islam is only for Arabs. At least not me. That was not the message of Islam nor why the Arabs spread it to non-Arabs.

Well nobody should be taking surenas seriously anyway because he is a non-Muslim who hates Islam in Persia and blames Islam for the problems Iran faces. This is the same guy who told me in another conversation that they are not proud of Salman Al Farsi just because he was a Muslim who converted long before the Arabs conquered Persia. The only reason he bring up Persian influence over Islam is because he wants to get Arabs, Turks, and Persians to fight and hate each other.

Well that was evident given his lack of knowledge and the nonsense he was passing of as "facts". Trust me, I am 100 percent sure that he is one of the many Iranians who consider Islam an Arab invention and who still hold grudges that the Iranians were conquered by us Arabs 1400 years ago and spread Islam and all that followed.

Hence why the Iranians who oppose the Iranian regime call them Arabs and alien. You see you just need to visit a Iranian forum and see such tendencies by yourself in full light. It is practically found among all non-Muslims from nations that are non-Arabic. They blame all their miseries on Arabs and still hold grudges against us. Let them bark. While they bark the current number of Muslims - 1.6 billion is only increasing by each second.