Sarkozy to Seek China Aid as EU Expands Rescue Fund

[muse]

BEIJING—China’s Commerce Ministry said Tuesday it is worried that Europe’s debt crisis could spark trade friction and hurt sales to the country’s largest export market.
The comments from ministry spokesman Shen Danyang come as debt-laden European countries fight Beijing over trade barriers, and as the US prepares a retaliatory trade measure against China.

Now why should the ministry be worried UNLESS, the Europeans and the US are threatening them - either cough up the money or we will shoot ourselves in the foot and continue to try and shoot at you.

This is why we have consistently offered that China must not fall for this blackmail, that it's security, today and tomorrow lies in itself and it's neighbors, in Asia, it's work growth and hard working people live, it's where China and her neighbors live. If the Europeans and the Americans want to may their lives even more difficult, let them - this blackmail is so much bluff - and if it is not then perhaps instead of listen to tough talk, it may be better to allow friends across the seas to hear some truth about their position and if they think it's bad now...they ain't seen nothing yet.

 

[Chinese Century]

I didn't say it so you assume I don't know it right? Absolutely logical thinking.

And since you mentioned Economics somewhere, I just got reminded of "Fallacy of Assumption". Do try reading up on it.




Workplace laws? And this after I did mention nothing to do with economy. You see, google can only tell you so much





These economies are not fine? All you had to support was the french avoiding the downgrade and compared it to Russia losing talent after its meltdown. Forget already what you said....selective amnesia? Let me help youwith what you said....


http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...aid-eu-expands-rescue-fund-2.html#post2234676




And you are the Chinese advocate? Ahhh how can I forget, more chinese than the chinese etc...

Regarding why would they buy it, if you could read what I have been posting you could come across as less ignorant. I encourage you to read what Chinese officials themselves have to say about the matter,






Ohh my bad then, I didn't realize you were commenting on the poster rather than the post.
Wonder where did I hear about that Knee-jerk hatred ....

lol love the indian jealousy, it makes it even more fun.
china is vastly superior to india in every possible way.

 

[bandit]

Now why should the ministry be worried UNLESS, the Europeans and the US are threatening them - either cough up the money or we will shoot ourselves in the foot and continue to try and shoot at you.

This is why we have consistently offered that China must not fall for this blackmail, that it's security, today and tomorrow lies in itself and it's neighbors, in Asia, it's work growth and hard working people live, it's where China and her neighbors live. If the Europeans and the Americans want to may their lives even more difficult, let them - this blackmail is so much bluff - and if it is not then perhaps instead of listen to tough talk, it may be better to allow friends across the seas to hear some truth about their position and if they think it's bad now...they ain't seen nothing yet.

The biggest concern is their largest market would go under. That's a lot of customers gone. Nowhere to sell goods and keep those factories running.

Currency violations have long been cited both by US and EU. I don't believe there is any new threat by them.

 

[Developereo]

I didn't say it so you assume I don't know it right? Absolutely logical thinking.

It's not what you didn't say, but what you did say. You said these economies are fine.

Economies which narrowly avoided a downgrade -- not once, but twice -- are not doing fine.

Workplace laws? And this after I did mention nothing to do with economy. You see, google can only tell you so much

No need for google. France's woes and social situation are both well known, as are the reasons for its downgrade fears.

Your silly wild goose chase is not helping your arguments -- not that there seems to be any kind of argument in that heap of rant. Nor is it doing any wonders for your economic credentials.

These economies are not fine?

Again, escaping two downgrades is not the sign of an economy doing 'fine'.

All you had to support was the french avoiding the downgrade and compared it to Russia losing talent after its meltdown. Forget already what you said....selective amnesia? Let me help youwith what you said....


http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...aid-eu-expands-rescue-fund-2.html#post2234676

I know exactly what I wrote and I stand by it. Nowhere does it say that France's economy is comparable to Russia. It only makes the statement that economic turmoil creates opportunities for siphoning off scientists and, along with them, technnology.

The example of Russia was an extreme case in point to show a real world example of that siphoning in action.

And you are the Chinese advocate? Ahhh how can I forget, more chinese than the chinese etc...

Ah, here we go. The standard Indian refrain when they can't address the issue.

As if only Chinese are allowed to comment in a thread about China on a Pakistani forum.

Regarding why would they buy it, if you could read what I have been posting you could come across as less ignorant.

Nothing ignorant about holding you accountable for your own words. You asked why China does not buy Eurobonds, and I explained why. Now you are flailing about as usual when your economic suggestion turned out to be "incredibly" bogus.

I encourage you to read what Chinese officials themselves have to say about the matter,

The Chinese have not committed to buying any Eurobonds. They are debating how they should react. They may well end up buying some bonds, but it would be for the intangible benefits being discussed, not for any financial gain.

Try to read what others are writing instead of flying off the handle because India was left out of the picture.

Ohh my bad then, I didn't realize you were commenting on the poster rather than the post.
Wonder where did I hear about that Knee-jerk hatred ....

When you come to troll, don't be surprised at the reception.

 

[Chinese Century]

The biggest concern is their largest market would go under. That's a lot of customers gone. Nowhere to sell goods and keep those factories running.

Currency violations have long been cited both by US and EU. I don't believe there is any new threat by them.

china can consume its own products. its already happening as the RMB is appreciating.
china has the manufacturing base, china has the largest gross national savings.
china is already the 3rd largest consumer market.
china is already the largest or 2nd largest consumer of many major goods automobiles, PCs, smartphones, machinery, tablets, clothing, food, toys, aircraft, luxury goods, etc etc etc.


EU consumes 22% of total chinese exports.
US consumes 20% of total chinese exports.

those numbers have been falling as china has diversified its export markets to asia, latin america, middle east and africa.
chinese growth has been coming from domestic consumption recently.
all this nonsense that china will collapse if no one buy chinese goods is a western made propaganda story.
trade collapsed in 2008/2009 but chinese gdp growth was above 6%.
that was because chinese domestic consumption was still relatively strong.

u have zero understanding of basic economics, ur indian ego blinds u from reality.

 

[bandit]

It's not what you didn't say, but what you did say. You said these economies are fine.

Economies which narrowly avoided a downgrade -- not once, but twice -- are not doing fine.



No need for google. France's woes and social situation are both well known, as are the reasons for its downgrade fears.

Your silly wild goose chase is not helping your arguments -- not that there seems to be any kind of argument in that heap of rant. Nor is it doing any wonders for your economic credentials.



Again, escaping two downgrades is not the sign of an economy doing 'fine'.

Escaping Downgrades is not a sign of a healthy economy hmmm... let me guess, being downgraded must be a sign of a healthy economy where you were taught economics. No wonder you keep coming back to my credentials.

For the public record, France is rated AAA and stable outlook....the highest rating possible, but some of us in our China worship would like to depict it as 'woeful'.

Source

I know exactly what I wrote and I stand by it. Nowhere does it say that France's economy is comparable to Russia. It only makes the statement that economic turmoil creates opportunities for siphoning off scientists and, along with them, technnology.

The example of Russia was an extreme case in point to show a real world example of that siphoning in action.

So you say the economic situation is not similar but France would begin selling of technologies similar to Russia.
Your assertion of Russian sellout it still as wrong, Chinese haven't managed to get their engines and aircraft at par with Russians yet.

Ah, here we go. The standard Indian refrain when they can't address the issue.

As if only Chinese are allowed to comment in a thread about China on a Pakistani forum.
Nothing ignorant about holding you accountable for your own words. You asked why China does not buy Eurobonds, and I explained why. Now you are flailing about as usual when your economic suggestion turned out to be "incredibly" bogus.

Let me break it down for you, the Chinese are interested in seeing Eurozone not go down in flames to preserve their market. Does this answer your question why China would be interested in buying Bonds, or should I quote their Commerce Ministry for the third time?

Its not my economic suggestion genius, read the link its the Chinese.

The Chinese have not committed to buying any Eurobonds. They are debating how they should react. They may well end up buying some bonds, but it would be for the intangible benefits being discussed, not for any financial gain.

Try to read what others are writing instead of flying off the handle because India was left out of the picture.

So? what does this have to do with your assertions of Europes technology up for sale. Please stop dithering and throwing dramatic fits and try to stay on topic.

When you come to troll, don't be surprised at the reception.

It aint me trollin sonny, it's you not getting over your India hatred to manage a reply without bringing India in.

 

[idune]

Greece debt crisis was only fraction of bigger and looming danger in Europe. See the enormous cross country debt picture of Europe. Domino effect has just begun. China or anyone step into EU debt trap by investing in financial instruments will have to keep feeding EU money just to keep their previous investment value. Investment in US and EU bond and financial instruments are financial blackhole to bankrupcy. If one look at this picture carefully he/she could understand.

 

[Developereo]

Escaping Downgrades is not a sign of a healthy economy hmmm... let me guess, being downgraded must be a sign of a healthy economy where you were taught economics. No wonder you keep coming back to my credentials.

For the public record, France is rated AAA....the highest rating possible, but some of us in our China worship would like to depict it as 'woeful'.

Being considered for a downgrade is a sign of an economy in trouble.

Germany is not being considered for a downgrade; France is. Not once, but twice.

So you say the economic situation is not similar but France would begin selling of technologies similar to Russia.
Your assertion of Russian sellout it still as wrong, Chinese haven't managed to get their engines and aircraft at par with Russians yet.

Any economic turmoil creates opportunities for those on the lookout. The point I made, and you seem to have trouble grasping, is that the Eurozone situation is going to get a lot worse before it gets better and China will have better leverage with time.

As for Russia, many Russian scientists have been snapped up by other countries, despite your denials,

Let me break it down for you, the Chinese are interested in seeing Eurozone not go down in flames to preserve their market. Does this answer your question why China would be interested in buying Bonds, or should I quote their Commerce Ministry for the third time?

Its not my economic suggestion genius, read the link its the Chinese.

The issue was not whether China should help Europe, but how to extract the maximum benefit. Specificaly, I was responding to your suggestion about buying Eurobonds. They are worthless, although I can understand you will now try to backpeddle and change the goalposts.

So? what does this have to do with your assertions of Europes technology up for sale. Please stop dithering and throwing dramatic fits and try to stay on topic.

It has to do with your suggestion that China should buy soon-to-be worthless Eurobonds.

 

[Developereo]

Now why should the ministry be worried UNLESS, the Europeans and the US are threatening them - either cough up the money or we will shoot ourselves in the foot and continue to try and shoot at you.

This is why we have consistently offered that China must not fall for this blackmail,

Unfortunately, China may have little choice. Since Sarkozy has put them on the spot, they have to manage the situation very delicately or it can turn into a public relations disaster.

If they don't answer the phone, so to speak, any further deterioration of the Eurozone may be blamed on China. The Western media would see to that.

 

[bandit]

Being considered for a downgrade is a sign of an economy in trouble.

Germany is not being considered for a downgrade; France is. Not once, but twice.

France outlook hasn't even been downgraded to negative, rating being downgraded is far from it.

Time to back up your assertions with some sources since you seem unable to know the difference.

Any economic turmoil creates opportunities for those on the lookout. The point I made, and you seem to have trouble grasping, is that the Eurozone situation is going to get a lot worse before it gets better and China will have better leverage with time.

As for Russia, many Russian scientists have been snapped up by other countries, despite your denials,

Eurozone is in trouble, But French and German technology is up for grabs. Please dont make yourself look like you know what. I presume you know eurozone co-operation does not include millitary tech sharing

Reading comprehension issues again?

The issue was not whether China should help Europe, but how to extract the maximum benefit. Specificaly, I was responding to your suggestion about buying Eurobonds. They are worthless, although I can understand you will now try to backpeddle and change the goalposts.



It has to do with your ridiculous suggestion that China should buy soon-to-be worthless Eurobonds.

Yeah lets talk about comprehension now since sources and logic are missing. While you are at it, let's see my post recommending buying of eurobonds as you meticulously highlighted in your post above.

You can keep accusations coming, but failure to reply to points raised just highlights your ignorance further.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

It's typical of Indian trolls to derail any thread which is positive about China.

Since we are generalizing happily, why not accept more chinese than chinese as well

 

[Developereo]

France outlook hasn't even been downgraded to negative, rating being downgraded is far from it.

Time to back up your assertions with some sources since you seem unable to know the difference.

I won't do your homework for you. Research for yourself how economists' concerns about an imminent downgrade of France sent the markets into a dive.

The fact that the downgrade didn't happen is secondary; the point being that the concerns have remained with us over several months and may resurface yet again. And every time they do, the markets take a hit.

Eurozone is in trouble, But French and German technology is up for grabs. Please dont make yourself look like you know what. I presume you know eurozone co-operation does not include millitary tech sharing

I know you only showed up to troll and derail the thread, but I am not going to keep repeating what I actually wrote. Try reading it again, perhaps with a dictionary in hand, to understand what is being conveyed.

Yeah lets talk about comprehension now since sources and logic are missing. While you are at it, let's see my post recommending buying of eurobonds as you meticulously highlighted in your post above.

You can keep accusations coming, but failure to reply to points raised just highlights your ignorance further.

For your education, the 'sources and logic' against buying Eurobonds are right above you in preceding articles.

Regarding buying Eurobonds, here's what you wrote:

Regarding why would they buy it, if you could read what I have been posting you could come across as less ignorant. I encourage you to read what Chinese officials themselves have to say about the matter,

and

the Chinese are interested in seeing Eurozone not go down in flames to preserve their market. Does this answer your question why China would be interested in buying Bonds

Since we are generalizing happily, why not accept more chinese than chinese as well

Because this topic is about China and everyone's free to comment. If Indians don't like it, they can have a lie down until the feeling passes.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Unfortunately, China may have little choice. Since Sarkozy has put them on the spot, they have to manage the situation very delicately or it can turn into a public relations disaster.

If they don't answer the phone, so to speak, any further deterioration of the Eurozone may be blamed on China. The Western media would see to that.

Quite clever of them actually. They are always encouraging China to behave as a "responsible global power".

The flip side of course, being the media firestorm whenever we do something they don't like, UNSC vetoes against Western initiatives for instance.

The bottom line though, is that China will lose out if the EU economies collapse. Nothing can be done about that, not in the short term anyway. We'll have to suffer just like we did during the Credit crunch.

 

[ao333]

France outlook hasn't even been downgraded to negative, rating being downgraded is far from it.

Time to back up your assertions with some sources since you seem unable to know the difference.



Eurozone is in trouble, But French and German technology is up for grabs. Please dont make yourself look like you know what. I presume you know eurozone co-operation does not include millitary tech sharing



Yeah lets talk about comprehension now since sources and logic are missing. While you are at it, let's see my post recommending buying of eurobonds as you meticulously highlighted in your post above.

You can keep accusations coming, but failure to reply to points raised just highlights your ignorance further.



Since we are generalizing happily, why not accept more chinese than chinese as well

Don't bother. It's their money, so just let them decide how to spend it, if their opnions matter at all in communist China.

 

[DV RULES]

EU takes begging bowl to Beijing


The chief of the European Union bailout fund is holding talks with Chinese officials on China’s possible involvement in saving the euro. Klaus Regling also hinted that his fund could become part of a joint vehicle with the IMF.

China has always said it intended not to invest too heavily in helping out the European economy. However, EU bailout chief Klaus Regling says the Asian giant might change its mind if given the option of dealing with an IMF-backed vehicle.

Regling travelled to Beijing for talks with China's Central Bank and Finance Ministry on Friday, a day after European leaders reached an agreement on tackling Europe’s debt crisis.

The trip follows speculation that China might agree to help Europe out of its financial turmoil, with French President Nicolas Sarkozy talking up the idea of China helping rescue the struggling European currency.

"If the Chinese, who have 60% of global [currency] reserves, decide to invest in the euro instead of the dollar, why refuse?" said the French president.

China, for its part, favors funding attractive, solid, safe investment opportunities. And as Dr Baozhi Qu, a senior research fellow at the Skolkovo Institute for Emerging Market Studies in Beijing told RT, Europe has no other choice other than to ask China for help.

“They have no choice – they want to increase the size of the fund from 440 billion euros to one trillion, so they need to seek outside help,” he explained.

And China may potentially be interested in helping the EU because Europe is a major market for Chinese goods, so it stands to benefit from a stable European economy.

A senior adviser to the Chinese government has been quoted as saying that the last thing China wants is to "throw away the country's wealth and be seen as just a source of dumb money." And according to Dr Qu, there is some truth in this.

“China will take a lot of precautionary measures to make sure the money is returned. After all, the financial market evaluates the European Financial Stability Facility as a triple-A borrower, so I think the risk is under control for now,” he said.

Pierre Guerlain, a professor of political science at Paris West University Nanterre La Defense, agrees that China is interested in saving Europe, but at a price.

“They are not going to throw good money after bad to save Europe just because they love Europe,” he said. “If the Chinese helped, it would be for their advantage.”

Guerlain believes that China’s financial aid to the EU would mean a serious shift in the global economy.

“Actually, symbolically, it means: if you ask the Chinese to save Europe, you ask the Chinese to become the new financial hegemonic power,” he said. “And this is something very serious. “

“It’s ludicrous on some level, hard to understand,” he added. “It is as if both the US and Europe were organizing the transition to Chinese hegemonic power.”


EU takes begging bowl to Beijing — RT

 

[Developereo]

Quite clever of them actually. They are always encouraging China to behave as a "responsible global power".

The flip side of course, being the media firestorm whenever we do something they don't like, UNSC vetoes against Western initiatives for instance.

The bottom line though, is that China will lose out if the EU economies collapse. Nothing can be done about that, not in the short term anyway. We'll have to suffer just like we did during the Credit crunch.

Exactly. China has no choice but to help out -- like it has been doing for the US. Both for market preservation and public relations.

The only question is, how much will it cost?

Until Chinese domestic demand picks up significantly, and as long Western media remains dominant, China has no choice but to play ball.