Sadly PMLN government will be toppled in few days. Inside source

[Emmie]

Sorry, sorry. I'm just a bit testy today. Dealing with people like @batmannow can really get on my nerve.

Which words exactly do you want me to edit?

As for article 62 and 63



It does not actually mention who should be eligible for being a part of the CEC, it mainly deals with those that are running for Parliament. What is needed is to figure out how the CEC is going to be run, who should be eligible to be apart of the commission, and how to make sure that the ECP is completely neutral. Implementation can only occur if reforms are taken to make sure that there are penalties for non-adherence, currently (from what I know, and correct me if I'm wrong) there are no such penalties.

This sort of reform does take time to implement, there is no way around it. You need guidelines to make sure the people in charge are doing their job. You need mechanisms in place to make sure that no one slacks off or ends up being corrupt, and if they do there are sever penalties. This takes time in order to make sure everything is in place, there is just no avoiding it at all.

That is my argument.


You just don't learn, do you? I saved you from being banned last time, I won't do it again.

I thought you talked about the eligibility of the candidates. Well, chapter VIII of the constitution describes it all, CEC has to be a judge serving or retired. Laws, rules and regulation made under it ain't the issue in question here, the issue in question here is the implementation of those laws in their letter and spirit. For example - Law says tax evaders can't contest elections but ROs do allow evaders to contest elections; law says no authority can misuse its powers but ROs do misuse their powers. The point is, law is there and so do rules and regulations - what absent here is the implementation.

Law says election commission shall hold a free and fair elections, no corrupt practices shall be practiced, there's a book the size of encyclopedia book which describes elections laws & rules and regulations, you name a form of law you find it there. What useful purpose these fancy terms could serve if the person in charge at various levels of the commission has a political party to support? RO despite of prescribed guidelines would value the candidate of the party that appointed him more than the candidate of the party that opposes his favorite candidate. Polling staff, which is constituted on the will of the powerful party, by all means shall do exactly as they are directed to do. Police, district functionaries, everyone has a party to support.

May be you need to bring a law that ensures neutrality more sternly but then again it would be a law, not some minute rules and regulations, certainly it won't take a decade to understand the passed law, contrary to what you have suggested.

 

[That Guy]

I thought you talked about the eligibility of the candidates. Well, chapter VIII of the constitution describes it all, CEC has to be a judge serving or retired. Laws, rules and regulation made under it ain't the issue in question here, the issue in question here is the implementation of those laws in their letter and spirit. For example - Law says tax evaders can't contest elections but ROs do allow evaders to contest elections; law says no authority can misuse its powers but ROs do misuse their powers. The point is, law is there and so do rules and regulations - what absent here is the implementation.

I believe I addressed this by stating that there have to be mechanisms in place to make sure that everyone is doing their jobs. The laws are there, but they're unenforceable, because there is no mechanism in place to make sure everyone adheres to the rules, and if they don't they'll suffer penalties. Implementation of laws also require rules and regulations, including mechanisms such as independent watch dogs.

How do we decide who the commissioner is? I'll take your word that it has to be a judge, but how do we make sure he's impartial? That is the biggest question, and that is what needs to be addressed.

Law says election commission shall hold a free and fair elections, no corrupt practices shall be practiced, there's a book the size of encyclopedia book which describes elections laws & rules and regulations, you name a form of law you find it there. What useful purpose these fancy terms could serve if the person in charge at various levels of the commission has a political party to support? RO despite of prescribed guidelines would value the candidate of the party that appointed him more than the candidate of the party that opposes his favorite candidate. Polling staff, which is constituted on the will of the powerful party, by all means shall do exactly as they are directed to do. Police, district functionaries, everyone has a party to support.

Which is exactly why there needs to be rules in place to make sure that such incidents do not happen. A neutral stance is the most important role in this entire affair. The question then becomes, how do we make sure the play field is fair and even for everyone, regardless of party affiliation.

May be you need to bring a law that ensures neutrality more sternly but then again it would be a law, not some minute rules and regulations, certainly it won't take a decade to understand the passed law, contrary to what you have suggested.

I never suggested it would take a decade, but it is no secret to anyone that it will take an average of 1-2 years to start implementation, thus making early elections next to impossible. Lawmakers need time to interpret the law, and the bureaucracy needs time to implement the changes that take place. Like i said before, it takes time, and cannot be done over night, or within a few months.

 

[rockstar08]

"time to change your diapers"*

1945 ki comedy ....

 

[Verve]

I had a dream that a Korea General was issuing orders to the Pakistani leadership and IK was getting a LOT of work done in KPK...........then I woke up and saw KPK still the mess it is and the Koreans 40 years more advanced than Pakistan.....

Have you actually been to KPK in last 12 months?????


I am sick of keyboard warriors who haven't been to KPK or these marches and comment as if they know it all.

 

[Ghareeb_Da_Baal]

there is a whole in every @ss.
Jano Kapatti

 

[mhacsan]

Honestly speaking no one is actually interested in it...It is only the people who want this but no party or people in power are the least bothered not PMLN not PPP not MQM not PTI def not PAT

Not the Judiciary system coz they would be the 1st to be questioned -too much responsibility where people who give judgement based on bribes

Not the army...Basically the people believed that PTI is in for this...But even if IK is...he cant seem to fight his way in to make changes....probably a dictator who wants good for Pakistan would be able to pave the way but prob such a man hasnt been born to our land!


Well they are not unreasonable if you look at it as a normal citizen....

Yes the dhamkiyan are un necessary but jo log poori quam ko dhamkiyan ya galiyan par chala ray hain un par kon sa reham kerna cha hiyea?

Systems(Judiciary etc) can be amended, depoliticised, and corruption free operation is possible as long as someone is willing to do. How ? lets leave this discussion for some other forum or time. But as far as PTI is concerned, until they dont get a run on the system, it would be unfair to judge them on any major front (if you dont sit in exam you dont expect a result). PAT is not yet a political party, when they do come into system then we will discuss them.

As far as dictator is concerned. Dictator might start off the right foot, but to maintain his legitimacy in a longer run, he also has to allow certain things which are opposed to system, a fine case is of NRO, Lal masjid and others by Mushraf.

For me PTI is the only option right now, others are tried and tested.

 

[batmannow]

Systems(Judiciary etc) can be amended, depoliticised, and corruption free operation is possible as long as someone is willing to do. How ? lets leave this discussion for some other forum or time. But as far as PTI is concerned, until they dont get a run on the system, it would be unfair to judge them on any major front (if you dont sit in exam you dont expect a result). PAT is not yet a political party, when they do come into system then we will discuss them.

As far as dictator is concerned. Dictator might start off the right foot, but to maintain his legitimacy in a longer run, he also has to allow certain things which are opposed to system, a fine case is of NRO, Lal masjid and others by Mushraf.

For me PTI is the only option right now, others are tried and tested.

Lal masjid was the conspiracy, with fake stories of killings, time has proven that, but for future there wouldn't be any NRO, if you have done wrong, you will found hanging on the ropes of the fake daMao crazy, which you have used against the poors of pakistan?

 

[Dubious]

Actually, no. This must remain the same, because if institutions aren't given enough time to implement changes, then nothing will get done. Like it or not, bureaucracy has a very vital purpose, which ensures safe and orderly change and management.

I never said Bureaucracy has no purpose...All I said is it should be flexible otherwise it will not live to the fast paced world! Of course if you have a 18th century Bureaucracy it wont be as flexible and adaptable as that of a 21st century!

Haphazardly implementing change can bring chaos, and there is no guarantee that the new guidelines put in place, will be used effectively.

However there is guarantee that the current ones are not bringing Pakistan anywhere near the 21st century!

It is a slow process, but there is a purpose to it. You don't boil rice for 2 second and expect it to be cooked, no you need time to boil it down properly, and make it safe for consumption.

Brother Politics is not as simple as boiled rice it is more like stir fried rice which are already boiled and every vege in the kitchen is thrown and the total rice is quickly stir fried for few minutes and you get the result = yummy rice

I don't think they're cooking anything. PTI is out of options, which is why they're negotiating.

I am not sure why soo many people are negative...or just down right...ermmmm aik tou black heart hota hai this is like black brained where you expect something to happen coz some dummy on tv said so and dont allow room to get surprised nor are you flexible enough to accept something different or change!

How sure are you they never wanted to negotiate? How sure are you if IK became akroo like NS and denied negotiations PTIans would continue to support him for akroo behaviour? Obviously we are a people we see something happening and amend our ways ....it is how life is not hardcore blind on some set of crap someone announced....Seriously learn to be flexible and live a breathable life instead of being so damn stubborn on 1 stance!

I also don't care who's in power. People mistake me for being a Noon-league supporter, but I've made it clear that I think NS is a buffoon. The only thing I support is the rule of law, and constitutional order.

Law? The same law abider who came to power and amended that one can be in power after being "elected twice" ? Wasnt that our law? Cant be in power for the 3rd time?
Law? the same law which hasnt dragged Zardari through the streets as promised? Or the same law which was supposed to put ex-CJ in his place (which is some shit hole) instead of giving his son some position in Baluchistan - same position his daddy opposed for another person?

What bloody law do you see in NS?

Is it in our Constitution to be looted over and over and over and stay silent about it?

Is it in our constitution to be silent about unfair elections and give it the title DEMOCRACY?

Is it in our constitution to hang our heads in silent and watch our country be ripped apart by looters? Seriously no! We didnt get freed from British to be under the Elite (British Lords also did the same crap these Elite bastards are doing)

I sincerely hope that IK is honest enough to not blame the current economic downturn on NS, because it's clear that it was a direct result of the protests. These protests have done a lot of damage to Pakistan's economy, and I hope that IK won't use it as a weapon.

Honestly speaking it hasnt done as much damage as shitty people complain about...The only damage it has done was already done from terrorism....which took someone forever to give the green signal to eliminate! Please call a spade a spade for once!

Wasnt it NS who gave the country 1 mth of Eid holidays? Well guess what the dharana took place within that 1 mth...so country is still on holidays according to NS!

As for the losses....its not that big...yes it appears big thanks to those who are eating the country! Where is the loss counting calculator when elites and ministers eat away the country? or when contractors eat away projects? or when Swiss bank money is ignored or when ex CJ is taking bribes and giving stupid judgement? Why doesnt the calculator come out when Metro roads are blocking traffic? or when they disturb hospitals (3 so far ...large hospitals) by blocking ambulance's path! Metro roads are pathetically planned and in coming few yrs probably would be ripped apart to put in pipe lines or make way for metro trains and other stuff...but no calculator will come out then!

What about all the money NS is earning from making roads? How is that fair to the country that the PM is the only one earning on the expense of the public?

 

[batmannow]

I never said Bureaucracy has no purpose...All I said is it should be flexible otherwise it will not live to the fast paced world! Of course if you have a 18th century Bureaucracy it wont be as flexible and adaptable as that of a 21st century!



However there is guarantee that the current ones are not bringing Pakistan anywhere near the 21st century!



Brother Politics is not as simple as boiled rice it is more like stir fried rice which are already boiled and every vege in the kitchen is thrown and the total rice is quickly stir fried for few minutes and you get the result = yummy rice



I am not sure why soo many people are negative...or just down right...ermmmm aik tou black heart hota hai this is like black brained where you expect something to happen coz some dummy on tv said so and dont allow room to get surprised nor are you flexible enough to accept something different or change!

How sure are you they never wanted to negotiate? How sure are you if IK became akroo like NS and denied negotiations PTIans would continue to support him for akroo behaviour? Obviously we are a people we see something happening and amend our ways ....it is how life is not hardcore blind on some set of crap someone announced....Seriously learn to be flexible and live a breathable life instead of being so damn stubborn on 1 stance!


Law? The same law abider who came to power and amended that one can be in power after being "elected twice" ? Wasnt that our law? Cant be in power for the 3rd time?
Law? the same law which hasnt dragged Zardari through the streets as promised? Or the same law which was supposed to put ex-CJ in his place (which is some shit hole) instead of giving his son some position in Baluchistan - same position his daddy opposed for another person?

What bloody law do you see in NS?

Is it in our Constitution to be looted over and over and over and stay silent about it?

Is it in our constitution to be silent about unfair elections and give it the title DEMOCRACY?

Is it in our constitution to hang our heads in silent and watch our country be ripped apart by looters? Seriously no! We didnt get freed from British to be under the Elite (British Lords also did the same crap these Elite bastards are doing)

Honestly speaking it hasnt done as much damage as shitty people complain about...The only damage it has done was already done from terrorism....which took someone forever to give the green signal to eliminate! Please call a spade a spade for once!

Wasnt it NS who gave the country 1 mth of Eid holidays? Well guess what the dharana took place within that 1 mth...so country is still on holidays according to NS!

As for the losses....its not that big...yes it appears big thanks to those who are eating the country! Where is the loss counting calculator when elites and ministers eat away the country? or when contractors eat away projects? or when Swiss bank money is ignored or when ex CJ is taking bribes and giving stupid judgement? Why doesnt the calculator come out when Metro roads are blocking traffic? or when they disturb hospitals (3 so far ...large hospitals) by blocking ambulance's path! Metro roads are pathetically planned and in coming few yrs probably would be ripped apart to put in pipe lines or make way for metro trains and other stuff...but no calculator will come out then!

What about all the money NS is earning from making roads? How is that fair to the country that the PM is the only one earning on the expense of the public?

For them Damocrazy means tindo king & ghadari king having the launch at Raiwind mahal with 70, dishes to serve at? Lolzzz

 

[iioal malik]

Guess twitter facebook mummy daddy's idiot...girls dancing middle on roads want to see civil war in this country..this war pakistan will be cut into 50 pieces..n this army will be left to polish the shoes of USA n sudia.army already cut other half of this country back in 71.must not interfere in this democratic process stay n protact the borders in which army have failed miserably

 

[batmannow]

Guess twitter facebook mummy daddy's idiot girls dancing middle on roads want to see civil war in this country..with this war pakistan will be cut into 50 pieces..n this army will be left to polish the shoes of USA n sudia because this army already cut other half of this country back in 71.Army must not interfere in this democratic process stay n protact the borders n they failed miserably

& you think,PAKARMY will be waiting to see that happening?
No they will hang & his noora supporting sectarian terrorists, like they destroyed the TTP?

 

[Jf Thunder]

when all else fails, blame everything on the Army, and when even that fails blame it on ISI

 

[Dubious]

Pakistan is a victim of resource constraint, lack of receipts via direct taxation, has to finance an ongoing war, and going through instability. From Musharraf's time onwards, nobody has invested in country-wide infrastructure projects. The last big project completed was Ghazi-Brotha power project, that was nearing completion when PML government was toppled by Musharraf. During Musharraf's regime we had almost no additions of natural gas reservoirs, but we did follow a great expansion of gas usage via CNG in road transportation. The result in in front of us today.

Well..its easy to blame Musharaff for everything when PPP did more damage than Musharraff ever could! However I dont see anyone pointing that out!

As for resource constraint ....try research constipation! If you have brains you have to go out of Pakistan to prove them and invent something the foreigners patent and sell back to Pakistan

We have such great quality cotton (MASHALLAH) that Bangladesh buys from us and sells us back the finished products!

We have such great quality barley and rice (MASHALLAH) that British researchers in 1970s had collected samples and are trying to inbreed the genes into their own local varieties (I know this coz I worked on some of these and have a paper in an international journal to prove it)

We have such great quality fruits - berries (MASHALLAH) that I was asked to do a bit of homework on how to obtain some of the bloody samples and was obstructed thanks to blasted bureaucracy! Khud tou research kerni hai hi nai aglay nu bhi stop kerdo! First class Assholes!

As for lack of receipts via direct tax...well tell that to NS who keeps helping exempt tax on rich who can actually afford the tax and imposing extra tax on the poor who are already getting poor from paying the previous load! Classic example of making the rich richer and the poor poorer!

You can not reasonably expect a 14 month old government to do anything to solve any of the entrenched problems.

Well you can expect them to deliver by imposing tax on their pamper friends (langotiya yaars) who are rich and can afford to pay for imported cars but not rich enough to pay for the tax that comes with it and hence the exemption?

Or juice them who store wheat and rice and will let it rot but wont sell it for a lower price?

Or tax them those who dont pay the circular debt (he did 1 crackdown for show on face value and did you see how many rejoiced it?? How many were happy with him but than never followed it up! - that just showed how much importance he gave and proved he wont change) So yes in 14 mths he could have shown alot by insisting on these problems to disappear but he couldnt bother heck he rarely even sits in the parliament he is always too busy making overseas trips to gain some projects for his own business!

While our country has almost no cash reserves and whatever is available must go to covering import bill, we can not invest in much-needed infrastructure with our own money. So, from where would needed finance become available?

Well have you seen how much loans he took? Where did that money go? No one took down how much loans he took and opened many projects....where is that money?

Your question about PML-N being dependent on '$$$$$' is too innocent. You really should be talking about Pakistan. PML-N is only a political party.

Brother it is not innocent being a scientist we have reports of resources in Pakistan and how much its worth if utilized properly....Yes you would be surprised how many scientist know Pakistan through its resources....and mind you its more than how much one earns from NS's business projects! But lack of resource management due to pagal jahil managing them and eating most of the returns or selling them off for lower prices than they really are worth has caused Pakistan to go down the shit road...and it is really the political parties + the wadera groups who have not been wiped out! 68 yrs of wadera rule is really shameful! NS could have done this 1 good deed in 14mths had he wanted to!

Our Chinese friends have agreed to invest in Pakistan's infrastructure and for that we need not invest much of our own money. But the first requirement for it to happen is stability.
I agree with @Aether that PTI shenanigans seem focused on not letting PML-N achieve any of its goals to the detriment of Pakistan. Already we have seen USD jump from less than 99 to more than 101. This is going to raise inflation. Guess who will be blamed for it? Now guess who is actually responsible? I hope this is enough for you to get the picture.

Chinese are the only ones helping us...Though I dont put too much weight on them they are economical partners and they are there for profits as they prob also have the same scientists reports about resources in Pakistan as the West have....

As for stability it was NS who was dragging his bloody feet about instead of ordering the much needed attacks...

USD was only stabilized because of the influx of loans nothing to do with Pakistan nor NOORA doing anything good for Pakistan meaning it was not Pakistan that balanced the money but was more like a superficial thing


And yes dharana might have caused some loss...but not as big as people are crying about had our resources not been in the hands of jahils! the loss would not have been soo big if NS had not given the rich relaxation on taxes (how a country normally gains cash reserves) nor would it have been soo big had NS killed the circular debt by chasing it down the end of the ally instead of just doing 1 crackdown for showbazi!

The loss wouldnt have been soo huge had Pakistan cut Zardari's balls ...the same man who pushed Pakistan back some 2-3 decades by not making 1 single good deed for it instead eating a good 5 yrs of revenue!

 

[iioal malik]

& you think,PAKARMY will be waiting to see that happening?
No they will hang & his noora supporting sectarian terrorists, like they destroyed the TTP?

Army didn't do sh•t destroying anyone..speaking thru people sentiment if army try to interfere in this democratic process every man in uniform will be abused till he's killed in public n their bodies will be hanged in the middle of every noker n corner in the country..thru mass majority people believe current situation today is directly related to dictatorship decision taken by army in last 65 years...therefore it's in the best interest that army to work with n learn thru civil government just like any other civilized army. Period..!!

 

[batmannow]

Army didn't do sh•t destroying anyone..speaking thru people sentiment if army try to interfere in this democratic process every man in uniform will be abused till he's killed in public n their bodies will be hanged in the middle of every noker n corner in the country..thru mass majority people believe current situation today is directly related to dictatorship decision taken by army in last 65 years...therefore it's in the best interest that army to work with n learn thru civil government just like any other civilized army. Period..!!

It only shows your & noora Kingo, s highest level of desperation?
But fact is that last time when he was kicked out half of his, so called slaves join the army rule?
So stay tuned with the reality, act the defeat?
Or be hanged like ZAB?