Saddled with Insas Army wants new AK-47s

[grey boy 2]

ARDE Develops New Carbines for Army | India Defence Online

The final trials for the MSMC will take place in December this year before its inducted... and DRDO is very much happy with it

Man; You have just wasted alot of my time for nothing, THANKS !

The Indian Army is soon hoping to induct a new modern sub-machine carbine (MSMC) which has been developed by Pune-based Armaments Research and Development Establishment (ARDE).

The final trials for the MSMC will take place in December this year. The MSMC is a lightweight compact automatic gun with a small barrel; unlike a rifle, it fires rapidly and is suitable for close quarter combats.

ARDE director Anil M Datar said that the ARDE is in the process of proving 99.7 per cent reliability for the 5.56 calibre MSMC which is effective to a maximum range of 200 metres.

The MSMC will be replacing the Russian 9mm-caliber carbine currently used by the Indian Army and paramilitary forces.

The MSMC is a part of the Indian Small Arms System (INSAS) programme initiated in 1982 to provide an indigenous small arms weapons system for the Indian armed forces.
A rifle, a light machine gun (LMG) and a carbine were eventually designed as part of the INSAS family. However, the carbine failed to clear its test while the INSAS rifle and LMG were inducted for operational use.

The concept of a single ammunition system for all the three systems was the problem and the 5.56 ammunition proved to be too ‘heavy’ for the short range MSMC, giving a higher recoil and flash effect than was needed.

ARDE seems to have corrected the problem with a shorter length of the round, though of the same calibre.

Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO) indicates that the introduction of the soft-body armour made the erstwhile 9 mm carbine with the Indian Army ineffective.

This paved the way for the development of the 5.56 mm Modern Submachine Carbine (MSMC), and its ammunition, aimed at defeating enemy soldiers protected with soft-body armour at a range of 200 metres.

According to the DRDO scientists , the weapon is lightweight and compact and has proved highly accurate and reliable during user trials.

The ammunition for MSMC is of conventional type with the bullet cylindro-ogival for better ballistics as compared to a 9 mm round. A steel insert has been introduced in the tip of the bullet to achieve better penetration power and it enhances the ammunition performance to a level superior than that of its contemporaries.

The distinguishing features of the 5.56 mm MSMC includes a pistol grip, which allows single-hand firing capability, magazine feeding through pistol grip, a retractable butt for better stability while firing, ambidextrous cocking, fire selector to suit left and right hand firers and a three-point sling for better carrying and maneuverability.

The other technologies used in MSMC include a unique semi bull-pump weapon feed system behind the trigger mechanism, noise-reduction technology and the integration of laser spot designator on MSMC for close quarter battle.

MSMC is not even a assault rifle, with a range of 200 Metres !!

Incredible Indians, Thanks a lot again !!!

 

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Meaning present INSAS is not in good shape & IA wants AK, so whole idea of making INSAS & using & reducing dependence in foreign rifles is flawed, i don't think so ....

The problems in INSAS has been solved, but you cannot take chanses, can u? And Better to go for the best and reliable... because These rifles are the immediate weapon for the military... U cannot compromise on anything...

 

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MSMC is not even a assault rifle, with a range of 200 Metres !!

Incredible Indians, Thanks a lot again !!!

Oh... Carbines are short versions of rifles. The M4 carbine is a 14.5" barrel version of the M16. The action is exactly the same. In some cases a carbine uses a different action than the rifle it is based off of, such as in the M1 carbine. The M1 Garand uses a different action and even shoots a different round. The reason for this is when they designed it as a carbine they didn't just want it to be shorter, they wanted it to be lighter as well, hence, a smaller cartridge...

INCREDIBLE CHINESE...

 

[grey boy 2]

The problems in INSAS has been solved, but you cannot take chanses, can u? And Better to go for the best and reliable... because These rifles are the immediate weapon for the military... U cannot compromise on anything...

The problem in Insas was not solved, read the topic thread !!

Your bad loser mentality was not solved either !!

 

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The problem in Insas was not solved, read the topic thread !!

Your bad loser mentality was not solved either !!

Mind you tongue sir, If you want to be the conclusion of the thread in your way, You just dont need to debate, you can straight away say That India cannot develop a rifle and Close the thread, hence no debate and You win.. thats

 

[grey boy 2]

Oh... Carbines are short versions of rifles. The M4 carbine is a 14.5" barrel version of the M16. The action is exactly the same. In some cases a carbine uses a different action than the rifle it is based off of, such as in the M1 carbine. The M1 Garand uses a different action and even shoots a different round. The reason for this is when they designed it as a carbine they didn't just want it to be shorter, they wanted it to be lighter as well, hence, a smaller cartridge...

INCREDIBLE CHINESE...

Yeah !! You are right , Sure a assault rifle with a range of 200

metres

 

[DaRk WaVe]

The problems in INSAS has been solved, but you cannot take chanses, can u? And Better to go for the best and reliable... because These rifles are the immediate weapon for the military... U cannot compromise on anything...

Same, IF the problem would have been solved then every now & then we would not have seen the reliability issues raised by IA, of course no compromise in case of assault rifles but don't u think that arming IA with a weapon, about which we hear bad news every now & then, is a compromise?
& MSMC is a sub machine gun not Assault rifle, as far as i know there is difference b/w Assault Rifle & SMG...

 

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Same, IF the problem would have been solved then every now & then we would not have seen the reliability issues raised by IA, of course no compromise in case of assault rifles but don't u think that arming IA with a weapon, about which we hear bad news every now & then, is a compromise?
& MSMC is a sub machine gun not Assault rifle, as far as i know there is difference b/w Assault Rifle & SMG...

I totally agree with u, INSAS Has been facing problem and Some of them migt be even now, So AK-47 are more of less of same necessity class... and Rifle and carbine I have already answered ...

 

[DaRk WaVe]

Oh... Carbines are short versions of rifles. The M4 carbine is a 14.5" barrel version of the M16. The action is exactly the same. In some cases a carbine uses a different action than the rifle it is based off of, such as in the M1 carbine. The M1 Garand uses a different action and even shoots a different round. The reason for this is when they designed it as a carbine they didn't just want it to be shorter, they wanted it to be lighter as well, hence, a smaller cartridge...

INCREDIBLE CHINESE...

from where the hell Barrel came in, MSMC is a sub machine gun with effective range of 200m where as Assault rifles have an effective range up to at least 500m

I totally agree with u, INSAS Has been facing problem and Some of them migt be even now, So AK-47 are more of less of same necessity class... and Rifle and carbine I have already answered ...

u cannot compare SMG & assault rifle, AK is a far more effective & proven weapon then INSAS , any one with a bit of gun knowledge will prefer AK

 

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from where the hell Barrel came in, MSMC is a sub machine gun with effective range of 200m where as Assault rifles have a an effective range up to at least 500m


u cannot compare SMG & assault rifle

Ok I explain it ... A rifle, a light machine gun (LMG) and a carbine were eventually designed as part of the INSAS family. However, the carbine failed to clear its test while the INSAS rifle and LMG were inducted for operational use.

Now MSMC is doing fine so, Just told the differance between a carbine and an assault rifle... The barrel thing was not of this. just an example was given

 

[Su 30mki]

Well everyone has its own advantages and disadvantages

INSAS : transparent Bullet Holders let user know how much bullet is let.

Insas is more accurate.

To my Chinese Friend, Can you tell me the accuracy of AK-47? or any one tell me the accuracy of AK 47??? vs Accuracy of Insas?

 

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u cannot compare SMG & assault rifle, AK is a far more effective & proven weapon then INSAS , any one with a bit of gun knowledge will prefer AK

I new that , thats why I used the word necessity calss, AK-47 will be the best to replace INSAS , and will fullfill the need of that operational conditions... Moreover there is no big differance between AK-47 and INSAS... can u point it out?

 

[DaRk WaVe]

Well everyone has its own advantages and disadvantages

INSAS : transparent Bullet Holders let user know how much bullet is let.

Insas is more accurate.

To my Chinese Friend, Can you tell me the accuracy of AK-47? or any one tell me the accuracy of AK 47??? vs Accuracy of Insas?

MY dear transparent bullet holder is no advantage,I ve seen a G-36, Ak-47 & M-4 Carbine & i ve even seen Taliban & Iraqi insurgents using transparent mag's

The effective range of INSAS is more than AK-47, but then there is a issue of reliability, u want a reliable, proven battle tested Ak with 8oom effective range or u want a INSAS with 1000 m effective range, which comes up with problems every one & then..

 

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And There is Kalantak assault rifles under user trials aswell, Sorry not much info on that...

 

[beckham]

NAGPUR: The indigenous 5.56x45mm Insas (Indian National Small Arms System) rifle has been the standard assault weapon for the Indian Army since the late 1990s. However, the jawans using it in counter-insurgency operations find it Ineffective.
As part of the new Army doctrine, the gun is meant to incapacitate the enemy, rather than kill. Insas has a smaller calibre, which means it has less power. This is because — and it’s the official view — injuring an enemy can lead to enemy soldiers getting engaged in tending the wounded, thus yielding a tactical battlefield advantage.
The technocrats who interacted with soldiers in the forward areas were told that this theory does not work with terrorists who, apart from attacking in small numbers, are never bothered about evacuating their injured. Hence, the soldiers say, they want to shoot to kill, rather than maim.
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One question; Why Indians couldn't make a Decent Rifle for

their army when India claim to be one of the military power house ?

whats wrong with you grey boy can't even read an article ?

It clearly says that the rifle is Ineffective in counter-insurgency operations ! where the terrorists never bothered about evacuating their injured !

It is due to its small caliber not because of faulty design ! Even your QBZ-97 Assault Rifle uses 5.56 mm round, would you also call in Ineffective ?

Even iconic weapons like AK and M-16 have their own problems and limitations ! Stop twisting articles ...