SAC FC-31 Stealth Fighter: News & Discussions

[Kompromat]

Anymore photos, people?

 

[Beast]

Anymore photos, people?

No, its always the same angle photo showing. Probably the wall climber got caught and nobody dare to post new photo.

 

[manqiangrexue]

The Shenyang supervisor would say "We can't, we don't have money and time to design a new airframe. So just produce that damned F-35 drawings that we have".

Just look at Chengdu, J-10 struggled for like 20 years and J-20 already spent like 10 years in development and 7 more years to go. That's what it takes to design a new jet.

Haha, you don't think you are underestimating someone, perhaps? These are the people who built the Sino-Flanker. They knew way before they got their hands on the F-35 drawings what a flat design like the PAK FA could achieve. They modified much of the plane body as you can see from the side-shot. You think it's just too hard from them to flatten the body a bit while they were at it? It's still a prototype and airframes change. If they wanted to, they could flatten the body in future prototypes (pre-production).

If you are just stuck thinking the Chinese don't have the time, money, and foresight (or current initiative, for that matter) to flatten a jet body (which could be the deal-maker or deal-breaker when the PLAAF and PLAN evaluate it), then I guess you just don't know the Chinese. It's not just the Chinese; I don't think anyone capable of working on a serious design of any kind has the type of incompetence you describe.

J-20 has 7 more years to go? Haha, wait and see. You eat out of your toilet if it enters service before 2019, how's that for a bet?

 

[Beast]

Haha, you don't think you are underestimating someone, perhaps? These are the people who built the Sino-Flanker. They knew way before they got their hands on the F-35 drawings what a flat design like the PAK FA could achieve. They modified much of the plane body as you can see from the side-shot. You think it's just too hard from them to flatten the body a bit while they were at it? It's still a prototype and airframes change. If they wanted to, they could flatten the body in future prototypes (pre-production).

If you are just stuck thinking the Chinese don't have the time, money, and foresight (or current initiative, for that matter) to flatten a jet body (which could be the deal-maker or deal-breaker when the PLAAF and PLAN evaluate it), then I guess you just don't know the Chinese. It's not just the Chinese; I don't think anyone capable of working on a serious design of any kind has the type of incompetence you describe.

J-20 has 7 more years to go? Haha, wait and see. You eat out of your toilet if it enters service before 2019, how's that for a bet?

korean is banned. I help him to answer. 'Yes, you are correct! I am so wrong '

 

[amalakas]

Look, the main issue here is unfounded claims and arrogance.

China until recently was simply copying aircraft designs (no pun intended here).

In an apparent leap in capability China is now testing one 5th generation aircraft and possibly a second one too.

That is obviously something that we need to examine from all sides.

My personal opinion is put very well by what the legendary "kelly" Johnson once said.

"If it looks good, it flies good". This is a very simplistic approach but like it and I think I see what he meant.

well, coming from that, I can tell you that the latest plane looks ..good. The J-20, not so much.

my 2c

 

[Water Car Engineer]

I like this a lot more than the J-20. It'll probably be a month or 2 to get clear images.

 

[gambit]

Gambit, the truck driver may know more than me, but I know he doesn't know enough to tell me how the next Lamborghini should be designed. Understand this: just because you flew jets for 20 years doesn't mean you know how to design a stealth fighter. You may know more than the layman, but you still don't know anything compared to people who design these things and you don't know enough to explain them accurately.

The truck is not a sports car. But even both do not share the same mission, both share certain basic foundations such as four wheels and a chassis? If an engineer at International cannot tell his counterpart at Lamborghini on how to design a sports car, the reciprocal also applies to the Lamborghini engineer as well regarding his counterpart at International on how to design a truck. But even so, both did not came to where they are at without a shared foundation such as shared education in mechanical engineering, electrical engineering, materials, and so on...

I understand your concept of "Chinese physics" now. It means physics that are too complicated for you to understand. Any physics beyond your basic principles cartoon is considered "Chinese physics" by you. If you didn't learn it, it's considered Chinese.

Your founding principles google cartoon is trash. You heard it at orientation, googled up a pic, and thought this is the bible to making stealth jets. In all classes, we learn founding principles on the first day. If it was the third grade, those principles stood till the last day. In college, we learned exceptions as the class progressed. In a PhD level course, by the end of the course, the founding principles were shot so full of holes you'd fail the final for sure if you stuck by them because every test question was on how to solve an exception to the rule. The more complex, the less you can simply apply "founding principles" and you bring your google cartoon to discuss stealth jets like you know how things work. "Chinese physics" is all the exceptions and bypasses to your "founding principles".

Now that is clearly the expected venture into 'Chinese physics'...

The angle of deflection/reflection is the angle of incidence. That is the real law of physics/nature. I challenge you to show any PhD papers that passed peer review that upside down that law.

Say what...??? It is a national secret in China to design 'stealth' fighters...???

The 'ten lambda' rule states that if the diameter is greater than ten wavelengths, any wavelength/frequency, the creeping wave behavior will not exist and contribute to RCS. If the diameter is less than ten lambda, the creeping wave behavior will exist and contribute to RCS. This rule is foundational but it was unknown to this forum and led to many false assumptions about designing radar low observable bodies.

And if you think I made up that rule with my 'trash' illustration...

When the geometric dimension of an object is large enough (>&#955, the quantity of creeping wave on the backward direction can be neglected.

Am sure you can tell that the authors of that paper are not American in origin.

I challenge any Chinese here to show the forum any PhD paper that passed peer review that upside down that law of physics.

Dude, I never saw the J-10 to F-35 video and even if I did see the title, I'd never click on it because I know the "vs." things by forum addicts are basically worth toenail clippings in terms of their ability to predict a real outcome. The jet you think would win is most highly probably the one your country made, no matter where you're from. (Iran: Our bootleg F-5 with 2 vertical stabilizers would totally kill the Raptor because this:..... LOL) Don't know why you brought it up at all, because a Chinese person once said it?

Yes, because the man cannot even answer a single basic aviation question posed to him and yet boasted about his J-20 video that got my friends at Hill AFB and Raytheon laughing. It is the lack of knowledge of foundational principles, the ones you sneered at, that made him a laughing stock here on this and other corners of the Internet and among those who have relevant experience.

My points:
1. J-31 seems to look like a F-22/F-35 hybrid so it probably incorporates the best of both, because it doesn't make sense to incorporate the worst of both.
2. Change in design usually reflects improvement.
3. I might be wrong; the true indicator of the jet's performance (other than war, of course) is whether or not the PLAN and PLAAF choose to buy it.

Korean's points:
1. It's not flat enough to be a maneuverable fighter. (Oh, really! Someone quickly tell Shenyang to flatten it, cus they didn't know that!)
2. The nose/cockpit/air intakes look like F-35 so it's sluggish. (Sure, no need to compare wings, stabilizers or anything, cus those don't matter in terms of maneuvering the jet.)
3. It must have low range because it has 2 engines and is roughly similarly sized to the F-35. (Sure, all engines are exactly the same in terms of fuel consumption. Also, the space that held a VTOL fan in the F-35 is probably filled with foam and bubble wrap in the Chinese version. Couldn't possibly be used for extra fuel or weapons bays.)
4. The Chinese probably stole the F-35 design, didn't analyze it despite massive criticism, and copied it with all its flaws. (Yeah, sounds like a good plan to me, must sound like a great plan to military scientists; let's do that.)

Instead of slamming other people's stealth fighters with analyses that has more holes in it than Swiss cheese after a shoot-out with Al Pacino (probably not as clever a joke as I thought LOL), Korean should be praying (or working on it, if he's that great) that the KFX gets off paper in the next decade.

If you think my arguments and Korean's arguments are the same in terms of assumptions, then it's pretty clear why you relegated from Air Force to internet forums.

What was it you said about toenail clippings?

 

[Nefory]

Recently, several internet photos of presumably the second stealth fighter, aka J31, flow around the web. From all the images at hand we can only tell it has conventional layout unlike J20, it’s significantly smaller than J20, and it use 2 Klimov RD33(93) turbo fans, and its awkward paint job.

The occurrence of J31 is surrounded so many myths. let alone its technological origin and supposed roll in Chinese air power, the way it rolled out made no sense, not even in the Chinese way.

Years before J20 and even T50 came to the surface, rumors of an undergoing 5th gen fighter project has widely spread in Chinese cyber-world, and the information was so detailed that way before J20 even showed up, we already “knew” it would be a heavy jet with twin engines, DSI intake, delta wing, and canard; we “knew” it aimed for air superiority with multirole sub-capability; we “knew” it focused on super-maneuverability and supersonic. Furthermore, we “knew” it would show up at the end of 2010, we even “knew” it would fly in early January, 2011. Of course, “we knew” means no more than we heard rumors, but we were later proven not being too far from the truth. More than just rumors, the media and even high ranking military officials confirmed the existence of 5th gen project in 2009. When it finally rolled out, the big red star on J20’s vertical fin, and the appearance of multiple high ranking military officers during and after the maiden flight. These all indicates the full support of the military behind the development of J20.

Now let’s take a look at how J31 presented itself to the public. Approximately 2 or 3 months after the maiden flight of J20, several rumors of “second stealth fighter” is also being developed by SAC. The rumors all agreed that the jet would be in medium-size and with conventional layout, but contradicted with each others in many other aspects, such as whether it would be DSI or carat intakes, or whether it is designed as ship-borne fighter for PLAN or JSF mainly for hi-lo combination with J20, etc. People couldn’t even tell if the ongoing J16 project, which was a new generation (here it is just meant for the Chinese military as they didn’t have much home-grown multirole capability, so any new multirole jets can be called a “new generation”, even if they were just 4th gen+), is the same stealth fighter project that is being rumored around. Many believed they were the same thing and were soon proven wrong as J16 rolled out. Some didn’t even believed such project exists as it made no sense for PLAF would support another 5th gen project at this stage due to obvious reasons, such as limited budgets and more pressing demands for replacing J7 and J8 with J10 and J11. Then all of a sudden, a plane wrapped up in strange camouflage and placed at the back of a tow truck in an awkward angle, cruised by thousands of miles, on open high ways, across crowded cities. We all remember this episode. And when people are just about to forget, it just showed up in whole, just like that.

Now, as if it was not confusing enough, The Chinese “fanboys” are saying that this plane is for export purpose, and whether it will be inducted by the military is “uncertain”. How ridiculous is that? We all know SAC or its mother company AVIC is state-own company. How would the government fund a military project only for export purpose, when it’s an elementary school quiz to figure out the challenge for China to even sell JF17 to others? Well, I must say what they suggest is not at all pointless. To clear this all up, we need to know a little bit about how the Chinese bureaucracy works in AVIC and a little bit simple history of the Chinese 4th gen and 5th gen projects. It might not sounds relevant at the beginning, but background history is needed.

Forty some year ago, when China still in the chaos of Cultural Revolution, A small group of engineers from the 601 Shengyang Design institue, who were previously responsible for J9 project, were sent to Chengdu, Sichuan, to form the so called “southern team”. Song Wencong, who later master minded J10 was among them. However, he left Shengyang mainly because he was “politically incorrect”. So it was kind of an exile for him. The southern team later became the Chengdu 611 institute, and Song became the head of the institute.

In early 1980’s, the military decided to design a new fighter jet to replace its J6 fleet. As a result, a conference consisted of aviation experts from different institutes and high ranking officials from the military was held to decide who will be appointed to develop the next generation fighter (project 10). Now fellas, keep this in mind: back in 70s and 80s, Chinese aviation industry literally had nothing to begin with except a few mig19s and early type of mig21. Every fighter jet project started from scratch, including engine. As China was light years away from the top game of military aviation, they lacked sufficient technology, experience, budget, and last but not least, the understanding of modern air combats. Therefore, since 60s, many fighter jets projects either being cancelled or failed. Because of these, when they decide to carry out project 10, having each participant to build a demonstrator for their own projects and compete against each other was not realistic. They didn’t have the money, and they had nothing to begin with. So the so called contest was … well, they just sit and talked, and the audience would decide who made more sense. That doesn’t sound scientific, does it? Well, that was they worked —if you find no way out, work a way out. Back to the conference, the competition was mainly between 650 institute (Hongdu) and 601 institute (Shengyang). Hongdu’s proposal was a variant of Q6 project which was basically a rip-off Mig23MF, while Shengyang’s proposal was something like a F16—single engine, conventional layout, and wing strakes.

However, there weren’t any competition, because no one thought Hongdu’s proposal was doable and Shengyang has the best infrastructure and human intellectual resource, thus everyone thought Shenyang will win the project.

Song and 3 others of his crew from Chengdu 611 institute were also invited, while 30 of his colleagues from Shengyang were presenting their proposal. 4 VS 30, it was kind of clear that 611 were not meant to be part of the project. However, when it was his turn for the presentation, he start introducing his understanding of modern air to air combats base on current military conflict at that time, and base on that he concluded what the Chinese next generation fighter should be like. The military liked his idea and proponed the decision making to the next conference so that 611 institute can prepare for their proposal in detailed. Till then, 601 institute still thought the project would finally fall on them, until months lator, project 10 eventually was decided upon Chengdu.

The true reason behind this decision remained uncertain. According to Song’s biography, and pro-CAC guys said it was because CAC’s proposal convinced the military; On the other hand, Gu songfun, chief engineer in SAC, said in his biography that Shengyang was too close to the threat from the Soviet, and thus the decision was made not to keep all the eegs in one basket.

Shengyang 601 institute and 112 factory formed the SAC, and likewise, 611 and 132 became CAC. And all these aviation corporation along with other sub-system manufacturers altogether formed the AVIC. Since then, Chengdu aviation group became the game changer in Chinese aviation industry. And that pissed quite a few people off in AVIC.

As a state own group with no public supervision, one can easily imagine how much bureaucracy and, fair to say, corruption in AVIC. For them, the best situation is always like one member gets a large deal from the military, and that member will share the meal with all others in the family, such as you’ll make the radar, he’ll make the hydraulic system, they’ll make the engine, etc. No contest, no bidding. We all know how bureaucracy and corruption work in socialism, so no need to go further. However, CAC didn’t go that way. They have all sub-systems contracts for open bidding. It certainly didn’t mean that private sectors in China back then were allow joining nor they have the capability to contribute to the project, but it certainly created an example which left the door open for the future. Anyway, as the jobs no longer automatically find them, the sub system manufacturers had to compete against each other to get a contract from CAC. Things we thought to be normal were quite absurd in China back then. You might imagine many people didn’t like this way, but things went out fine, mainly because project 10 wasn’t all that important, even it was one of the national project. In 80’s, China and the west had a relatively good relation, the military threat from the north exist, but not very pressing. More importantly, instead hoping a miracle out of its own defense industry, Chinese military turned towards west. That’s when U.S tried to sell F16-79, and France tried to sell Mirage 2000 to China. And as the crown-jewel of Chinese aviation back then, although SAC missed the project 10, they were given another big package: Project Peace Pearl. Meanwhile, CAC joint with PAF, started the development of super 7, which later became JF17. During these joint projects, both SAC and CAC gained a great deal of experience from their American colleagues from Grumman. Again, you can see how differently SAC and CAC were treated back then – SAC was given the opportunity to work with the American, while CAC must had joint cooperation with a foreign government with no official budget from Chinese government.

Then is the history we all knew. 6.4 happened, All Sino-American military cooperation ceased, Mirage 2000 settled down on the other side of the Taiwanese Channel, Super 7 lingered after American money stopped. Then the Soviet Union collapsed and Su27 and AL31 came to China. Again, SAC was given the job to conduct the local production line of Su27 and to full the production of 200 Su27s. And with AL31, J10 could finally find an engine that can bring it to the sky.

From the brief history, we can see that SAC had been well taken care of. And they are catching food fallen from sky for long, while CAC had to fight for everything they can lay hands on (they even made washing machines and cable cars just to survive). And when SAC busy reverse engineering SU27, in 2003, J10 started entering service in small batch. PLAF was happy about it, especially when it often won one-sided victory against SU27. You must imagine the PLAAF was quite shock back then because in late 1990’s, even after J10’s maiden flight, high level officials of PLAAF were still in favor Sukhoi much more than domestic manufacturers. J10 kind of settle them down as they were impressed and satisfied with the jet. On the other hand, SAC who are in charge of assembling Su27 and reverse engineering it were kind of dull. In 2007, right after J10 were officially announced entering service, PLAAF start the bidding for the 5th Gen fighter project—J20. It was ironic how history repeats itself. Again, everyone kind of thought SAC were well prepared, that they start their preparation it since 1997, that they had the best resource in terms of technology or infrastructure, etc. Again, they were beaten by CAC. And again, CAC started doing in their own ways. This time, people up in the board of AVIC were truly unhappy about the way CAC manage the project. They felt CAC would jeopardize the interest of the AVIC as a whole; that the authority of AVIC would be threaten. So they started sticking their noses into the CAC’s business, started with messing up their management. First, they gave promotion to the supposed J20 project leader Yang Wei to a new position in Beijing’s AVIC Head quarters to pull him away from Chengdu. Second, they swap the company managers between SAC and CAC (in which case, the manager of SAC quitted from his original position and serve in the same position in CAC and vice versa). Third, AVIC command CAC to outsource the design of rear fuselage to SAC. This episode got quite embarrassing as Yang Wei, J20 project manager refused to attend his new position in Beijing for months. How the whole thing finally ended up, I don’t know. I assume the military finally got involved “solved” this bureaucracy by backing CAC. I think that’s why there was a big August 1st star on J20 vertical fin. I remember how people questioned the legitimacy of J20 photos. One of many bases was the August 1st insignia. Indeed, without knowing the hidden conflict behind the J20 project and the military influence of it, August 1st insignia made no sense at all.

So, 4 years after the bidding, J20 successfully flew to the sky, got a few cheers. And for the consideration of maintaining competiveness among its children companies, AVIC decide to fund SAC from its own budget for another 5th gen fighter project. This project is not the same one they used to compete with CAC. However, there is no doubt they started with what they had 4 years ago. Remember, the bidding was closed in 2007. They had whole lot of time to modify or simplified their original design to what we see today. Did they use the so called "F35 data" acquired? I hope they have! However, as I remember the security breech in LM went public last May. If that was the period when SAC got the file, and in about one and a half year, they finish the rip off and wind tunnel and strength testing, I would say WOW to that.

It’s clear there this is not a military acknowledged project, just like JF17, otherwise, we would have seen military marking on the plane, just like J16 prototype 1601. And surely there would be high chances that we wouldn’t see it being towed half way through the nation. And surely we wouldn’t have seen the private tow truck contractor actually released the wingspan 11.5m on its own web side. And we wouldn’t have seen high resolution photos of it just moment after its first exposure.

I don’t know what the air force or navy think of this jet by this moment. I sure want either of them will give sufficient support to the development of this jet. And considering the influence of SAC and AVIC people, they might end up getting a very good deal. By the way, the PLAN had kind of a history of backing projects that the Air Force disregards. In 80’s, XAC was developing FB7. PLAAF just thought there was no use of it and were not willing to fund it. However, the Navy desperately needed a platform for long range attack and ended up backing the FB7 projects. Now I heard the Navy fell quite behind in the waiting list of acquiring the new J16. And rumors say that’s why they again went along with XAC for developing FB7B, and it will come out soon enough. I don’t know whether J31 will become a ship borne fighter. We can only wait and see what happen to J31.

 

[Pak47]

J-21 Vs. J-31?

Same Jet?

Different Jets?

Different companies? Is one Shenyang and the other Catic?

 

[Kompromat]

Photos Of New Chinese Fighter Appear

By Bradley Perrett perrett@aviationweek.com, Bill Sweetman william_sweetman@aviationweek.com
Source: AWIN First

September 17, 2012

A second Chinese stealth fighter, apparently from Avic’s Shenyang plant, has appeared in seemingly genuine pictures that cropped up on Chinese web sites Sept. 15.

The twin-engine, single-seat fighter, shown at an airfield, appears to approximate the Lockheed Martin F-35 in size, with a somewhat shallower body but a similar span of about 11.4 meters (37.5 ft.), as indicated by comparison with a commercial aircraft tug shown pulling it.

The aircraft features a large ventral weapons bay. Wing sweep looks to be less than 45 deg. on the leading edge, as it was on a wrapped fighter-like object that was hauled by road from Shenyang to Xi’an in June. That trucked object could well have been the now-assembled prototype, three photographs of which have appeared.

Whenever photographs of new weapons appear on nonofficial web sites in China, the risk of fakery is at least as great as elsewhere. But the publication and sustained appearance of the three shots on the large Chinese web portal Sina somewhat supports their veracity.

The source of the pictures is unknown; assuming they are real, they are probably official but unacknowledged, intended to let the world know how far China has gone in developing a smaller companion to the so-called J-20 fighter of Chengdu Aircraft, Shenyang’s rival.

Moreover, the photographs have evidently been staged with the intent of not only revealing the fighter but also letting observers easily measure it and appreciate some of its features. The object hauled on the back of a truck in June was similarly placed next to objects of known size to aid photometric analysis.

Among the most distinctive features on the prototype are doors for the weapons bay. They were about a third as long as the whole aircraft, meaning that the bay must be at least 5 meters long. Assuming that the Chinese military has deliberately revealed the prototype, it surely opened the doors just as deliberately, to show the location and size of the bay. Similarly, a directly head-on shot conveniently showed trapezoidal intakes much like the F-22’s and the angle of the twin canted fins and lower body, about 25 deg.

The engines could well be Klimov RD-93s, which have been imported from Russia for the JF-17 export fighter. If so, a Chinese engine would presumably follow. The engines appear to be installed aft of the bulkhead that carries the main landing gear. The exact routing of inlet ducts, a key issue in reducing radar reflections, could not be judged, but a bulge on top of the fuselage shows that they rise well above the wing.

The location of the prototype was not clear from the photos, but Xi’an, the destination of the trucked object in June, has a flight test center. While China has not officially acknowledged the existence of the Shenyang aircraft, it has been popularly called J-21 or J-31. Shenyang displayed a model of a similar aircraft labeled F-60 last year. The prototype differs at least in having different moveable wing surfaces and in lacking a stinger between the nozzles.

Simultaneous development of two stealth fighters indicates the allocation of enormous resources by China. But if the country is to continue to catch up to Western fighter technology, it probably cannot afford first to get the J-20 into service and then to move on to a smaller aircraft as a replacement for Chengdu’s J-10. The J-10 began large-scale entry into service in 2006 and is unlikely to be considered fit as a first-rank aircraft in the late 2020s.

Also, China will want a domestically built fighter for the aircraft carrier it is now testing, as well as any follow-on ships. The J-20 is probably too large for carrier use. On the other hand, views of the truck-hauled object suggested that the Shenyang fighter had only a modestly sized wing; carrier aircraft need relatively large wings. Conceivably, a big-wing carrier version of the new fighter could be built, like the F-35C.

Photos Of New Chinese Fighter Appear

Extract from aviation week.

 

[manqiangrexue]

Forget it, Gambit. You are never going to convince anyone intelligent that you are an expert on stealth aircraft. I didn't read what you posted. It doesn't matter how many notches you wanna bump it up (it's still not even close to orientation level material for the guys who actually design stealth fighters) to make yourself look knowledgeable. You don't know jack squat because you don't work on stealth jets.

All the people who are qualified to comment are working on stealth jets. Other people know they don't know anything, like me. And then there's the last group who doesn't know anything but are too stupid to realize that they don't know and have a big ego so wanna look like they know. That's you and that will forever be you no matter how many diagrams or papers you post. Seriously, that's a lot of desperate effort to try to look smart because no one read your long boring pointless post.

The only way you would ever be considered knowledgeable is if you got a job and started designing stealth fighters. Short of that, the conclusion remains, you don't know shxxxt and people in Shenyang probably wipe their arse with diagrams more complicated than the most complicated that you'll ever understand.

 

[gambit]

Forget it, Gambit. You are never going to convince anyone intelligent that you are an expert on stealth aircraft. I didn't read what you posted. It doesn't matter how many notches you wanna bump it up (it's still not even close to orientation level material for the guys who actually design stealth fighters) to make yourself look knowledgeable. You don't know jack squat because you don't work on stealth jets.

All the people who are qualified to comment are working on stealth jets. Other people know they don't know anything, like me. And then there's the last group who doesn't know anything but are too stupid to realize that they don't know and have a big ego so wanna look like they know. That's you and that will forever be you no matter how many diagrams or papers you post. Seriously, that's a lot of desperate effort to try to look smart because no one read your long boring pointless post.

The only way you would ever be considered knowledgeable is if you got a job and started designing stealth fighters. Short of that, the conclusion remains, you don't know shxxxt and people in Shenyang probably wipe their ***** with diagrams more complicated than the most complicated that you'll ever understand.

This is not about me but about the silent interested lay readers. If I do not speak up and debunk claims based on ignorance, you Chinese boys will be free to spread those same claims based on ignorance. I did not expect you to read what I posted, but just because you did not, it does not mean no one else did. If anything, more read than passed. Sad for your side, really.

Seriously, that's a lot of desperate effort to try to look smart because no one read your long boring pointless post.

I guess that is why your man went to so much length to make that absurd video -- for those gullible and dumb enough in this age of video games to be so easily seduced with moving images instead of poring over boring printed words, like how real engineers did it BEFORE they entered their professions and jobs.

 

[Nefory]

Forget it, Gambit. You are never going to convince anyone intelligent that you are an expert on stealth aircraft. I didn't read what you posted. It doesn't matter how many notches you wanna bump it up (it's still not even close to orientation level material for the guys who actually design stealth fighters) to make yourself look knowledgeable. You don't know jack squat because you don't work on stealth jets.

All the people who are qualified to comment are working on stealth jets. Other people know they don't know anything, like me. And then there's the last group who doesn't know anything but are too stupid to realize that they don't know and have a big ego so wanna look like they know. That's you and that will forever be you no matter how many diagrams or papers you post. Seriously, that's a lot of desperate effort to try to look smart because no one read your long boring pointless post.

The only way you would ever be considered knowledgeable is if you got a job and started designing stealth fighters. Short of that, the conclusion remains, you don't know shxxxt and people in Shenyang probably wipe their arse with diagrams more complicated than the most complicated that you'll ever understand.

Dude, you are just getting ridiculous. How can you say they don't matter when you haven't read them? Papers and thesis and other scientific publications are important materials for studies.

This is not about me but about the silent interested lay readers. If I do not speak up and debunk claims based on ignorance, you Chinese boys will be free to spread those same claims based on ignorance. I did not expect you to read what I posted, but just because you did not, it does not mean no one else did. If anything, more read than passed. Sad for your side, really.


I guess that is why your man went to so much length to make that absurd video -- for those gullible and dumb enough in this age of video games to be so easily seduced with moving images instead of poring over boring printed words, like how real engineers did it BEFORE they entered their professions and jobs.

And you sir, please don't use the phrase "you Chinese boys"

 

[gambit]

Dude, you are just getting ridiculous. How can you say they don't matter when you haven't read them? Papers and thesis and other scientific publications are important materials for studies.

Noooooooooo.....!!! Say that is not true...!!! Please...please...please...I beg of you...!!!

 

[gambit]

And you sir, please don't use the phrase "you Chinese boys"

Tell you what, in any debate with you, if you treat me with respect, I will not use that phrase. However, based upon my experience with the Chinese members here, it will not be long before you get tire of seeing your fellow Chinese being challenged by someone who they considered to be of 'inferior' Asian stock, and will treat me with the same contempt as they have.