FOOLS_NIGHTMARE
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Beautiful picture, beginning to fall for it again.
SAC - FC-31 Grey Falcon Stealth aircraft for PAF : Updates & Debate
- Thread starter The SC
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Deino
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Sorry for the delayed reply.
I must admit I have my estimations and a certain feeling in my stomach towards the FC-31, but I would rate this all as too much unconfirmed, premature and insecure.
IMO it most of all depends on the role and priority the PLA has assigned to this project. As such rumors like SAC has no interest/is no longer allowed to let a foreign partner participate (see thread in the China military section) might be a hint that it is a high priority project and that the PLA has no interest in letting any of their own requirements, timeframe/schedule or so being influenced by a third party. How reliable or credible these rumors are ... i don't know.
Otherwise for long my best guess was, that it would be indeed an export type FC-31 and maybe a second branch - this description describes quite nicely what i had in mind - of this family tree called J-35.
I must admit I would prefer to wait for a conclusive statement ...
Best
Trailer23
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Speculation of military commission rises as FC-31 stealth fighter jet appears in PLA Navy recruitment video
4/6/2020https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1190597.shtml
Trailer23
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Don't you just love it when Chinese-Tech makes waves in the US Media.
If it ain't 5G, its the 5th Gen Fighter Jet
. Now articles like this have appeared on National Interest and a few other sites, but when FOX News covers it - its just as sweet. I truly hope Pakistan takes this jet seriously.
China has a long history of copying and stealing designs used for U.S. F-35
By Kris Osborn | Warrior Maven
Chinese media reports are now referencing new photos of the emerging J-31 5th-Gen stealth fighter appearing on social media, ostensibly showing various design improvements to the new radar-evading multi-role aircraft.
A May 5th report in the Global Times, an English-language Chinese newspaper, says the new photos show an … “upgraded version with modifications made to its aerodynamic design just like the prototype that made its maiden flight in 2016, instead of the original version that made its public debut at Airshow China in 2014.”
Improvements or changes to the J-31 likely continue a long-standing pattern of China’s alleged effort to copy, steal or mirror designs used for the U.S. F-35.
Virtually all photos and renderings of the J-31, since first unveiled, revealed a striking resemblance to the U.S. F-35. This does not come to the surprise of many in the U.S., given China’s well-known and documented cyberespionage efforts. A 2014 “U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission” Congressional report specifically cites a Defense Science Board finding that Chinese cyberattacks resulted in the theft of significant specs and technical details of a range of U.S. weapons systems—including the F-35.
At the same time, a 2018 Pentagon news story about DoD’s annual China report mentions that apparent similarities between the F-35 and Chinese J-20 could very well be a result of espionage.
A cursory look at the J-20 does appear to show some resemblance to the F-35, particularly the blended wing-body front end and internally built, conformal exhaust pipes. These similarities do appear, despite the apparent differences, as the J-20 has a wider and longer lower-body. However, available photos show an even larger measure of similarity between the F-35 and Chinese J-31 multi-role fighter.
A Chinese J-31 stealth fighter performs at the Airshow China 2014 in Zhuhai, south China's Guangdong province on November 11, 2014
As recently as last year, another Global Times report said the J-31 showed design improvements at the 2019 Paris Air Show.
Photos from the story reveal profound visual similarities between the F-35 and J-31. This is not without precedent, as the Chinese media itself has noted similarities between the two aircraft. Portions of a story from the Chinese government’s “People’s Daily Online” as far back as 2013 specifically cites design similarity between the emerging Chinese J-31 and the F-35, writing that the “J-31 and F-35 use the same DSI inlet (non-boundary layer-separated lane supersonic inlet).”
The only major difference, the paper notes, is that the U.S. has an F-35B Short Take Off and Landing variant and that the J-31 uses two engines compared to the F-35’s single-engine propulsion configuration.
The article’s reference to a “non-boundary layer separated lane supersonic inlet” appears both interesting and significant, as it pertains to designs engineered to manage heat and air movement signatures demonstrated by the aerodynamic phenomenon of airflow surrounding supersonic flight. “Boundary layer” aerodynamics, referring to the airflow surrounding a weapon or platform as it transits, can greatly impact the flight stability and stealth characteristics of an aircraft.
A pertinent comparison can be found in the Air Force Research Laboratories’ current work on “boundary layer phenomenology” related to next-generation hypersonic weapons. Senior Air Force science and technology leaders and weapons developers told me at the Air Force Association symposium in 2019 that “boundary layer phenomenology” was figuring prominently in ongoing research and development regarding future weapons and platforms. Managing heat flow and temperature is, of course, vital to maintaining flight stability for hypersonic weapons traveling at speeds up to five-times the speed of sound. Developers seek to engineer configurations that will generate a “laminar” or smooth airflow as opposed to “turbulent” boundary layer to enable a weapon to sustain an accurate trajectory and manage excessive heat.
Therefore, by extension, it seems apparent the same aerodynamic principles apply to stealth aircraft configurations that seek to manage the heat signatures and turbulence potentially generated in the airflow boundary layers of stealth jets flying at supersonic speeds.
Accordingly, a “non-boundary layer separated lane” for airflow, (as cited by the article) which does not break up or radically change airflow trajectory, could not only ensure smoother flight at high speeds but also help manage temperature. Of course, there would be significant differences between the thermal management technical engineering needed for hypersonics and stealth aircraft, yet smoother wing-body melded external designs, absent hard or protruding edges, clearly bring the added advantage of a smoother and cooler air flow boundary layer. Along these lines, the 2019 Global Times report details a few design changes to the 2019 J-31 which, according to the photographs, show a smoother, less-jagged exterior behind the cockpit compared to earlier models.
The Chinese newspaper stops short of exploring a fully-detailed discussion of aerodynamic designs related to the aircraft, but does cite a Chinese Air Force test pilot expert as saying “the J-31’s stealth aerodynamic design, stealth engine design and stealth coating design have all reached internationally advanced standards in stealth technology.” (China’s Air Force test pilot expert Xu Yongling.
However, external configuration and some elements of visible heat-signature management represent merely a few of many characteristics when it comes to stealth technology; stealth designs also often incorporate internally-built engines, radar-absorbent coating materials and internal weapons bays, among other things. Along these lines, the People’s Daily Online report makes the claim that the J-31 has a superior weapons payload capability compared with the F-35. However, available specs report that the J-31 travels with six external weapons hardpoints… the same number as the F-35.
As for how the J-31 may be employed, Chinese and U.S. newspapers are filled with various kinds of speculation; some reports say the fighter is intended for export as a way to counter the reach and scope of the F-35, however other reports cite Chinese officials saying the J-31 is intended for domestic use and possibly could even fly off of Chinese aircraft carriers.
Chinese progress with the J-31 calls to mind several timely strategic calculations. A more recent Congressional report, the 2018 U.S. China Economic and Security Review Commission, makes specific reference to concern regarding China’s expansionist aims when it comes to projecting air, land and sea power. The text of the review points to dramatic upticks in “long-distance over-water training” exercises over new areas in recent years which, the study goes on to suggest, improves the PLA Air Force’s capability to gather intelligence and “execute maritime missions against the U.S.”
“In November and December 2017, China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA) Air Force conducted at least nine long-distance training flights over maritime areas along China’s periphery, continuing a trend that began in 2015,” stated the 2018 U.S. China Economic and Security Review Commission.
All of this pertains to the often and widely discussed recognition that China has long-since passed its ambitions to operate as a dominant regional power and migrated aggressively toward positioning itself as a massive, leading global power.
Source: https://www.foxnews.com/tech/is-chinas-new-j-31-stealth-multi-role-fighter-an-f-35-rip-off
If it ain't 5G, its the 5th Gen Fighter Jet
. Now articles like this have appeared on National Interest and a few other sites, but when FOX News covers it - its just as sweet. I truly hope Pakistan takes this jet seriously.-------------------------
Is China's new J-31 stealth multi-role fighter an F-35 rip-off?
Is China's new J-31 stealth multi-role fighter an F-35 rip-off?
China has a long history of copying and stealing designs used for U.S. F-35
By Kris Osborn | Warrior Maven
Chinese media reports are now referencing new photos of the emerging J-31 5th-Gen stealth fighter appearing on social media, ostensibly showing various design improvements to the new radar-evading multi-role aircraft.
A May 5th report in the Global Times, an English-language Chinese newspaper, says the new photos show an … “upgraded version with modifications made to its aerodynamic design just like the prototype that made its maiden flight in 2016, instead of the original version that made its public debut at Airshow China in 2014.”
Improvements or changes to the J-31 likely continue a long-standing pattern of China’s alleged effort to copy, steal or mirror designs used for the U.S. F-35.
Virtually all photos and renderings of the J-31, since first unveiled, revealed a striking resemblance to the U.S. F-35. This does not come to the surprise of many in the U.S., given China’s well-known and documented cyberespionage efforts. A 2014 “U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission” Congressional report specifically cites a Defense Science Board finding that Chinese cyberattacks resulted in the theft of significant specs and technical details of a range of U.S. weapons systems—including the F-35.
At the same time, a 2018 Pentagon news story about DoD’s annual China report mentions that apparent similarities between the F-35 and Chinese J-20 could very well be a result of espionage.
A cursory look at the J-20 does appear to show some resemblance to the F-35, particularly the blended wing-body front end and internally built, conformal exhaust pipes. These similarities do appear, despite the apparent differences, as the J-20 has a wider and longer lower-body. However, available photos show an even larger measure of similarity between the F-35 and Chinese J-31 multi-role fighter.
A Chinese J-31 stealth fighter performs at the Airshow China 2014 in Zhuhai, south China's Guangdong province on November 11, 2014
As recently as last year, another Global Times report said the J-31 showed design improvements at the 2019 Paris Air Show.
Photos from the story reveal profound visual similarities between the F-35 and J-31. This is not without precedent, as the Chinese media itself has noted similarities between the two aircraft. Portions of a story from the Chinese government’s “People’s Daily Online” as far back as 2013 specifically cites design similarity between the emerging Chinese J-31 and the F-35, writing that the “J-31 and F-35 use the same DSI inlet (non-boundary layer-separated lane supersonic inlet).”
The only major difference, the paper notes, is that the U.S. has an F-35B Short Take Off and Landing variant and that the J-31 uses two engines compared to the F-35’s single-engine propulsion configuration.
The article’s reference to a “non-boundary layer separated lane supersonic inlet” appears both interesting and significant, as it pertains to designs engineered to manage heat and air movement signatures demonstrated by the aerodynamic phenomenon of airflow surrounding supersonic flight. “Boundary layer” aerodynamics, referring to the airflow surrounding a weapon or platform as it transits, can greatly impact the flight stability and stealth characteristics of an aircraft.
A pertinent comparison can be found in the Air Force Research Laboratories’ current work on “boundary layer phenomenology” related to next-generation hypersonic weapons. Senior Air Force science and technology leaders and weapons developers told me at the Air Force Association symposium in 2019 that “boundary layer phenomenology” was figuring prominently in ongoing research and development regarding future weapons and platforms. Managing heat flow and temperature is, of course, vital to maintaining flight stability for hypersonic weapons traveling at speeds up to five-times the speed of sound. Developers seek to engineer configurations that will generate a “laminar” or smooth airflow as opposed to “turbulent” boundary layer to enable a weapon to sustain an accurate trajectory and manage excessive heat.
Therefore, by extension, it seems apparent the same aerodynamic principles apply to stealth aircraft configurations that seek to manage the heat signatures and turbulence potentially generated in the airflow boundary layers of stealth jets flying at supersonic speeds.
Accordingly, a “non-boundary layer separated lane” for airflow, (as cited by the article) which does not break up or radically change airflow trajectory, could not only ensure smoother flight at high speeds but also help manage temperature. Of course, there would be significant differences between the thermal management technical engineering needed for hypersonics and stealth aircraft, yet smoother wing-body melded external designs, absent hard or protruding edges, clearly bring the added advantage of a smoother and cooler air flow boundary layer. Along these lines, the 2019 Global Times report details a few design changes to the 2019 J-31 which, according to the photographs, show a smoother, less-jagged exterior behind the cockpit compared to earlier models.
The Chinese newspaper stops short of exploring a fully-detailed discussion of aerodynamic designs related to the aircraft, but does cite a Chinese Air Force test pilot expert as saying “the J-31’s stealth aerodynamic design, stealth engine design and stealth coating design have all reached internationally advanced standards in stealth technology.” (China’s Air Force test pilot expert Xu Yongling.
However, external configuration and some elements of visible heat-signature management represent merely a few of many characteristics when it comes to stealth technology; stealth designs also often incorporate internally-built engines, radar-absorbent coating materials and internal weapons bays, among other things. Along these lines, the People’s Daily Online report makes the claim that the J-31 has a superior weapons payload capability compared with the F-35. However, available specs report that the J-31 travels with six external weapons hardpoints… the same number as the F-35.
As for how the J-31 may be employed, Chinese and U.S. newspapers are filled with various kinds of speculation; some reports say the fighter is intended for export as a way to counter the reach and scope of the F-35, however other reports cite Chinese officials saying the J-31 is intended for domestic use and possibly could even fly off of Chinese aircraft carriers.
Chinese progress with the J-31 calls to mind several timely strategic calculations. A more recent Congressional report, the 2018 U.S. China Economic and Security Review Commission, makes specific reference to concern regarding China’s expansionist aims when it comes to projecting air, land and sea power. The text of the review points to dramatic upticks in “long-distance over-water training” exercises over new areas in recent years which, the study goes on to suggest, improves the PLA Air Force’s capability to gather intelligence and “execute maritime missions against the U.S.”
“In November and December 2017, China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA) Air Force conducted at least nine long-distance training flights over maritime areas along China’s periphery, continuing a trend that began in 2015,” stated the 2018 U.S. China Economic and Security Review Commission.
All of this pertains to the often and widely discussed recognition that China has long-since passed its ambitions to operate as a dominant regional power and migrated aggressively toward positioning itself as a massive, leading global power.
Source: https://www.foxnews.com/tech/is-chinas-new-j-31-stealth-multi-role-fighter-an-f-35-rip-off
AZADPAKISTAN2009
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Shenyang FC-31 Could bring fresh Tactical scenarios in favor of Pakistan Airforce against Rafale
In 80's , Pakistan was offered the F16 , fighter Jets which were a peak quality platform. The platform gave Pakistan a much needed assurance to maintain a certain level of balance in region against it's adversaries.
Fast forward 2020, and we see Pakistan Airforce taking small strides to become a stronger Air Force every year which passes.
However , with the current acquisition of Rafale planes by India , and their internal Teja projects gradually picking up pace, it is once again becoming clear that Pakistan Airforce need a big, adrenaline boost up their arms , to revitalize the Modernization drive in order to match the weapons accumulation happening across the border
While the Project Azm , has been initiated a while back and it will certainly take 5-10 years for any prototype to surface, however in the time till that project concludes
Pakistan needs a fall back Fighter Jet which gives us a Edge in Air warfare
The FC-31 appears to be one such platform which can give a tactical advantage to Pakistan Airforce vs the 4th generation crafts that India operates
While the craft was not selected by Chinese Airforce , because they opted for a bigger aircraft , however for Pakistan , the FC-31 offers a vital tactical advantage of stealth because we don't have the option otherwise
Even if the plane may be a not so ideal fit for 1 vs 1 battles however the advantage it would provide for Silent Attacks against prominent targets across the border for Deep Penetrating blows , is unparalleled
The plane could be used as an Ideal Surprise Delivery platform for Tactical Delivery of gifts.
30-40 planes FC-31 would offer a magnificent boost for Tactical Bombing across the border
Another advantageous aspect of the FC-31 is that if Pakistan becomes the first Export customer , the delivery would be on Time since Pakistan is the first country to get the craft (if it becomes an order placed by Pakistan). It is not like we will have to wait 5-10 years for planes to get delivered to Pakistan
The FC-31 would of course have full capability to fly over Delhi in night and the pilot would also have ability to take a selfie with Indian Awacs nice up and close
If FC-31 is attained by Pakistan, it may not be ideal for role of 1 vs 1 Dog fighting craft , but is attained more for the role of Tactical Stealth delivery platform it would give a tremendous boost to Pakistan Airforce
During the February 2019 Raid Pakistan Airforce conducted over Indian positions , with multiple Mirages , the same could be done with just 1 FC-31 in broad day light
It is argued that the plane could technically fly over India Undetected all the way to Beijing, China of course if the craft's fuel supports that trip
In 80's , Pakistan was offered the F16 , fighter Jets which were a peak quality platform. The platform gave Pakistan a much needed assurance to maintain a certain level of balance in region against it's adversaries.
Fast forward 2020, and we see Pakistan Airforce taking small strides to become a stronger Air Force every year which passes.
However , with the current acquisition of Rafale planes by India , and their internal Teja projects gradually picking up pace, it is once again becoming clear that Pakistan Airforce need a big, adrenaline boost up their arms , to revitalize the Modernization drive in order to match the weapons accumulation happening across the border
While the Project Azm , has been initiated a while back and it will certainly take 5-10 years for any prototype to surface, however in the time till that project concludes
Pakistan needs a fall back Fighter Jet which gives us a Edge in Air warfare
The FC-31 appears to be one such platform which can give a tactical advantage to Pakistan Airforce vs the 4th generation crafts that India operates
While the craft was not selected by Chinese Airforce , because they opted for a bigger aircraft , however for Pakistan , the FC-31 offers a vital tactical advantage of stealth because we don't have the option otherwise
Even if the plane may be a not so ideal fit for 1 vs 1 battles however the advantage it would provide for Silent Attacks against prominent targets across the border for Deep Penetrating blows , is unparalleled
The plane could be used as an Ideal Surprise Delivery platform for Tactical Delivery of gifts.
30-40 planes FC-31 would offer a magnificent boost for Tactical Bombing across the border
Another advantageous aspect of the FC-31 is that if Pakistan becomes the first Export customer , the delivery would be on Time since Pakistan is the first country to get the craft (if it becomes an order placed by Pakistan). It is not like we will have to wait 5-10 years for planes to get delivered to Pakistan
The FC-31 would of course have full capability to fly over Delhi in night and the pilot would also have ability to take a selfie with Indian Awacs nice up and close
If FC-31 is attained by Pakistan, it may not be ideal for role of 1 vs 1 Dog fighting craft , but is attained more for the role of Tactical Stealth delivery platform it would give a tremendous boost to Pakistan Airforce
During the February 2019 Raid Pakistan Airforce conducted over Indian positions , with multiple Mirages , the same could be done with just 1 FC-31 in broad day light
It is argued that the plane could technically fly over India Undetected all the way to Beijing, China of course if the craft's fuel supports that trip
Last edited:
khanmubashir
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Is there an operational j31 available
To my understanding it's still in development phase
To my understanding it's still in development phase
AZADPAKISTAN2009
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FC-31 could be what F16 was to our airforce in 1990's
Pakistan Space Agency
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Who says J-31 Is better than JF-17 Thunder Block 3? How is it better? What does anyone know anything about the J-31?
So far, J-31 Is still closer to a myth than reality.
So far, J-31 Is still closer to a myth than reality.
Muhammad Omar
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So is BLOCK 3 we just saw 1 prototype everything else is pure speculation
You gotta be joking lol
Baloch Pakistani
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If Pakistan gets FC-31 then USA will sell f35 to India imo.
Akh1112
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I do feel it would Kickstart India into a rush acquisition of an FGFA, with the F-35 being a very likely candidate down the line. However, for now, unless India lets go of S400's, the F-35 is just a pipe dream
FOOLS_NIGHTMARE
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I would love to see these jets in PAF with TOT. These planes have immense potential and may even add to our AZM project.
SABRE
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My concerns exactly. Pakistan should be cautious of this.
AZADPAKISTAN2009
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FC-31 is a must for Airforce even just 40 Units would be sufficient for strategic purpose
For true Ninja like , missions in silence and Darkness of night go in Deep and deliver presents
On a 1 vs 1 the key point really is what you can't see on your radar screen you can't do much to it unless you have visual observation
And that is where it opens up new tactical options for Pakistan Airforce
To get out of the Dog Fight Mindset and also introduce another card up their sleeves for key battles
For true Ninja like , missions in silence and Darkness of night go in Deep and deliver presents
On a 1 vs 1 the key point really is what you can't see on your radar screen you can't do much to it unless you have visual observation
And that is where it opens up new tactical options for Pakistan Airforce
To get out of the Dog Fight Mindset and also introduce another card up their sleeves for key battles
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