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SAC - FC-31 Grey Falcon Stealth aircraft for PAF : Updates & Debate

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Chinese new engine developed successfully! What models will be equipped in the future? CCTV reveals important information.


18-04-2019

Recently, several online photos show that China has achieved success in the development of new aero engines. In the 22nd "Sichuan Youth May Fourth Medal" to be commended, the picture of the development team of China Aerospace Turbofan Engine was announced. In addition to the team's concern, the engine behind it is more interesting. The engine was covered with a thick mosaic, and although it was coded, the outline could still be distinguished. From the outline point of view, the engine nozzle is not large, but it is suspected to be jagged. If it is jagged, it may be a vector aero engine or a stealth engine specially designed for stealth fighters.

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In terms of size, the film is speculated as a medium-thrust aero engine, not a large-thrust engine. Some analysts believe that this is a turbofan-15 large thrust aero engine, but more it is considered a medium-thrust turbofan-19 aero engine. Because it is a turbofan-15, its size will be larger, for which more analysis is considered to be a turbofan-19 aero engine. The engine had previously been rumored that it entered the two-machine special project in 2016 and became a national key model, which means that the Russian development of the engine has been successful. In fact, the turbofan-19 is a medium-thrust engine. It is not the same as the turbofan-10 series and the turbofan-15. It is just the same level as the turbofan-13 series. The thrust is less than 10 tons. It is suitable for light fighters or medium-duty doubles. Use with fighters, such as the Dragon Fighter, the medium-sized dual-engine FC-31 "The Eagle Stealth Fighter" or some trainers.

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What models will be equipped in the future?

What kind of aircraft will be equipped in the future? If it is a turbofan-medium thrust engine, it will gradually replace the turbofan-13 series engine in the future. Its positioning is similar to that of the Russian Air Force's RD-93 aircraft engine and the US Army F-414 aircraft. The engine, one equipped with the MiG-29, and one equipped with the F/A-18 "Super Hornet". The RD-93 aero engine is now being mass-produced on the FC-1/JF-17 "Dragon Fighter" and becomes the main power unit. Although China's turbofan-13 engine has been successfully developed for many years, it is equipped with very few aircraft. Although the parameters are more advantageous than the RD-93, there is actually a big gap.

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At the Zhuhai Air Show in 2014, the FC-31 "Suiying" stealth fighters appeared at the Zhuhai Air Show, which left a deep impression on the audience. At the same time, the engine smoky during the flight show disappointed the audience. Because the engine of the FC-31 "Suiying" stealth fighter was suspected to be a turbofan-13 model, the lack of power caused the occurrence of black smoke problems. If the turbofan-19 was successfully developed, then the future FC-31 "鹘鹰" stealth The fighter can solve the power problem. Judging from the video released by CCTV, the video has a large number of images of the FC-31 "Suiying" stealth fighter, and it is likely to become its core power in the future.

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Black smoked FC-31 at Zhuhai Air Show​

Judging from the current data, the maximum take-off weight of the FC-31 "Eagle" stealth fighter is below 28 tons, which is only equivalent to the US F-35 "Lightning Joint Attack Aircraft", but it is more than the Russian MiG-29 "Pivot Point". "The fighter plane is much higher than the US Army F-18 nickname "Hornet". Therefore, once the turbofan-19 is successfully developed, the prospect of the future FC-31 "Xiaoying" stealth fighter will be more clear, and it is impossible to rule out the possibility of getting on the ship. From its size and take-off weight, it is entirely possible to become China. The next generation of aircraft carrier carrier aircraft, specifically how we are not good, let us look forward to this!

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Link: http://www.sohu.com/a/308815365_99913293
The black smoke thing only occurs frequently on Russian imported rd-33 engine which happens to be install on the first prototype of FC-31. And thick black smoke don't always occur as only when pump increase fuel. We all can see JF-17 during most of the flight do not produce thick smoke and small amount of trail light smoke.

According to another source. WS-13 is the first modern turbofan of China approved for mass production. It is quite a successful engine project for China aviation. It also the catalyst for quick development of more advance WS-19 turbofan.
 
The black smoke thing only occurs frequently on Russian imported rd-33 engine which happens to be install on the first prototype of FC-31. And thick black smoke don't always occur as only when pump increase fuel. We all can see JF-17 during most of the flight do not produce thick smoke and small amount of trail light smoke.

According to another source. WS-13 is the first modern turbofan of China approved for mass production. It is quite a successful engine project for China aviation. It also the catalyst for quick development of more advance WS-19 turbofan.

The concern is that such news about the success of WS-13 have been floating around for years, and hence a lot of people specially in the West do not take such news seriously. The only way for China to prove that it has been successful in developing the engine is if a large number of its new fighter jets are installed with the new engine. When do you expect the new engines to be installed on mutiple jets?
 
The concern is that such news about the success of WS-13 have been floating around for years, and hence a lot of people specially in the West do not take such news seriously. The only way for China to prove that it has been successful in developing the engine is if a large number of its new fighter jets are installed with the new engine. When do you expect the new engines to be installed on mutiple jets?
JF-17.
 
...just the possibility of that even possible could push the project 3-5 Years at the very least. If memory serves, it has never been attempted by anyone in the past and the chances seem slim-to-none.

The only way a FC-31/J-31 with the 01 Engine (a la F-35) even be possible would be to start from scratch.

Hi,

Technically---no---. The engine is just a power plant lifting you off the ground and pushing you forward---.

So---as long it has enough thrust to do what is needed---it will do the job---. The wings don't care if it is a single engine or a dual engine---and neither does the fuslage---even though it would be a single tube---the intakes would be on the sides---as they already are---the nose is what a nose is---.

So---pretty much most of the work has been done---

One must remember that the J31 is a copy of the F35 and the F35 is a single engine machine---.

The concern is that such news about the success of WS-13 have been floating around for years, and hence a lot of people specially in the West do not take such news seriously. The only way for China to prove that it has been successful in developing the engine is if a large number of its new fighter jets are installed with the new engine. When do you expect the new engines to be installed on mutiple jets?

Hi,

There would be a major fight developing between two manufacturing companies---.

Both would be fighting tooth and nail for the Paf contract for future engine---the chinese and the russians---. And both would be pitching their wares to the perspective buyers of the aircraft---.

RD93 has been a God given gift to the JF17 & Paf---. How difficult would it be for the Paf to step away from this power plant---@messiach---?
 

I know you mentioned this on another thread that JF-17s were using WS-13 engines. But why is there such a secrecy on this - why can't China or Pakistan confirm this news? Obviously it would be great news for China's aeronautical industry.
 
I know you mentioned this on another thread that JF-17s were using WS-13 engines. But why is there such a secrecy on this - why can't China or Pakistan confirm this news? Obviously it would be great news for China's aeronautical industry.
Of cos, it cannot be official. It unlicensed making of the engine. But new WS-19 make be make announcement soon as it shared no similarity with RD-33 engine.
 
Hi,

Technically---no---. The engine is just a power plant lifting you off the ground and pushing you forward---.

So---as long it has enough thrust to do what is needed---it will do the job---. The wings don't care if it is a single engine or a dual engine---and neither does the fuslage---even though it would be a single tube---the intakes would be on the sides---as they already are---the nose is what a nose is---.

So---pretty much most of the work has been done---

One must remember that the J31 is a copy of the F35 and the F35 is a single engine machine---.
But the rear would require a lot of engineering marvel to achieve that. They'd have to re-do the whole thing. From housing 02 Engines, they'd have to do one.

Now this is a quick Photoshop of what i'm talking about.

1. The current FC-31 with 02 Engines.
2. With reduction in opacity (transparency), you can compare between 02 engines & 01.
3. Well - you get the picture.

I'd hate to be the Project Manager to get the call, "Can you do with One?"

FC-31 - Final.jpg
 
China will invest 300 billion dollar in next 2 decades to develop military and civilian engine tells how complex engine development is . Until now Chinese local engine unable to supercruise without afterburner like their American counterpart.
 
China will invest 300 billion dollar in next 2 decades to develop military and civilian engine tells how complex engine development is . Until now Chinese local engine unable to supercruise without afterburner like their American counterpart.
Super cruise is aerodyanmic , high thrust to weight ratio. Nothing to with engine alone. Current high thrust WS-19 and WS-15 with the correct aircraft can super cruise. Even J-20 with WS-10E can have limited super cruise of 1.2M speed.
 
It would be a diplomatik disaster for PAF/Pk to step-away.
The tug of war is already in motion. No escape. Stategic trade-off underway in negotiations.

Hi,

There would be a major fight developing between two manufacturing companies---.

Both would be fighting tooth and nail for the Paf contract for future engine---the chinese and the russians---. And both would be pitching their wares to the perspective buyers of the aircraft---.

RD93 has been a God given gift to the JF17 & Paf---. How difficult would it be for the Paf to step away from this power plant---@messiach---?
 
Do we really have to discuss such stupid ideas to convert the FC-31 into a single engine type and even to think about if it would be doable? :hitwall::crazy:

Hi,

What do you mean " stupid "---? It is not a conversion---. The fuselage can be made for a single engine.

A J31 is an F35 but with two engines---was it a conversion---? Did you call the chinese stupid at that time for " converting "---.

The frontal aspect---the side aspect---the tails design would stay in the same parameters of design---.

A conversion means that taking an existing body and cutting and chopping it to fit a new design---.

As there are no SPARE J31's sitting around to be chopped---where would the term conversion come from---?

I thought you were smarter than that---but i guess not.

But the rear would require a lot of engineering marvel to achieve that. They'd have to re-do the whole thing. From housing 02 Engines, they'd have to do one.

Now this is a quick Photoshop of what i'm talking about.

1. The current FC-31 with 02 Engines.
2. With reduction in opacity (transparency), you can compare between 02 engines & 01.
3. Well - you get the picture.

I'd hate to be the Project Manager to get the call, "Can you do with One?"

View attachment 554252

Hi,

You getting carried away in sarcasm---. There are no J31's sitting around to be cut and chopped from a dual engine to a single engine---.

I think you are smarter than what you are trying to show---.

It would be a diplomatik disaster for PAF/Pk to step-away.
The tug of war is already in motion. No escape. Stategic trade-off underway in negotiations.

Hi,

It is next to impossible to walk away from the RD93---.
 
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Hi,
What do you mean " stupid "---? It is not a conversion---. The fuselage can be made for a single engine.
A J31 is an F35 but with two engines---was it a conversion---? Did you call the chinese stupid at that time for " converting "---.
The frontal aspect---the side aspect---the tails design would stay in the same parameters of design---.
A conversion means that taking an existing body and cutting and chopping it to fit a new design---.
As there are no SPARE J31's sitting around to be chopped---where would the term conversion come from---?
I thought you were smarter than that---but i guess not..


Dear MastanKhan,

with all due respect, your post surprises me and even if we did not always share the same opinion, I always respect yours. Here however - and I hope this ruins not everything - it is either a fundamental misunderstanding or indeed I cannot say differently, a plain stupid idea.

1. even if similar in overall appearance, in configuration or layout, to call the FC-31 a twin-engine F-35 is stupid. I'm always annoyed - in fact pissed-off - by the same stupid US accusations, but these constant copy & paste theories are s much stupid that I really cannot hold my horses. Therefore I'm flattered that You follow this ... or do you also think the A320 is a copied B737 and even more the C919 a "conversion of an Airbus?

2. No, the fuselage of the FC-31 cannot be rebuilt to fit only one engine, that's exactly as stupid as these similar stupid claims, "just take two RD-93, mate them and you have a twin-engine JF-17".
To say, the overall configuration, lay-out and concept could be taken, and redesigned around a decent engine like the WS-15, that would be possible, but result de facto in a new design.
Do you really think aeronautical design, engineering and manufacturing is so easy, just like plug & play on a Samsung mobile? Therefore again sorry to say so, but if You really believe this, then I'm indeed arrogant ...

3. The epitome of stupidity is to think one WS-19 - as done in his artwork No. 3 - could substitute two RD-93/WS-13. :hitwall: Do you guys at least sometimes try to think about such proposals? How could a ~100kN engine with the size of the RD-93 substitute 2x about 80 kN?? :crazy: To enable this at least a similar thrust performance would be necessary and even with a WS-15 it would be difficult since we are again at point 2 of my explanation.

So again I hope it is more a misunderstanding based on different definition ... otherwise I deeply regret the situation, but I will hold my opinion.

Best regards,
Deino
 
Dear MastanKhan,

with all due respect, your post surprises me and even if we did not always share the same opinion, I always respect yours. Here however - and I hope this ruins not everything - it is either a fundamental misunderstanding or indeed I cannot say differently, a plain stupid idea.

1. even if similar in overall appearance, in configuration or layout, to call the FC-31 a twin-engine F-35 is stupid. I'm always annoyed - in fact pissed-off - by the same stupid US accusations, but these constant copy & paste theories are s much stupid that I really cannot hold my horses. Therefore I'm flattered that You follow this ... or do you also think the A320 is a copied B737 and even more the C919 a "conversion of an Airbus?

2. No, the fuselage of the FC-31 cannot be rebuilt to fit only one engine, that's exactly as stupid as these similar stupid claims, "just take two RD-93, mate them and you have a twin-engine JF-17".
To say, the overall configuration, lay-out and concept could be taken, and redesigned around a decent engine like the WS-15, that would be possible, but result de facto in a new design.
Do you really think aeronautical design, engineering and manufacturing is so easy, just like plug & play on a Samsung mobile? Therefore again sorry to say so, but if You really believe this, then I'm indeed arrogant ...

3. The epitome of stupidity is to think one WS-19 - as done in his artwork No. 3 - could substitute two RD-93/WS-13. :hitwall: Do you guys at least sometimes try to think about such proposals? How could a ~100kN engine with the size of the RD-93 substitute 2x about 80 kN?? :crazy: To enable this at least a similar thrust performance would be necessary and even with a WS-15 it would be difficult since we are again at point 2 of my explanation.

So again I hope it is more a misunderstanding based on different definition ... otherwise I deeply regret the situation, but I will hold my opinion.

Best regards,
Deino
People with limited knowledge in aircraft design ( I too am among them however have already offers from universities to study the same topic ) think aircraft are just plug and play ? And all the talk of the J31= Copied f35 is such utter rubbish , physically speaking it is, even if the said 'design ' is copied and stolen by Chinese hackers or so they say ( also rubbish as one is dual engine and the other single so all the fuel allocation etc I'm not gonna dive deeper) , then did they also copy every single piece of code ? If it's copied won't they also need to have copied the engine ? The radar ? The eots? The IBMS ? FADEC ? HMD? TDL? Doesn't this mean China already has supposedly already copied the entirety of the cream of nato technology ? Wouldn't this just mean China is already way more advanced than the West so it won't even have needed to copy in the first place ? The paradox which they subtly refuse to answer,
 
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