SAC - FC-31 Grey Falcon Stealth aircraft for PAF : Updates & Debate

[Trailer23]

What is myth is what is hidden in that skin---what is behind that skin---what is being carried inside of that skin---that is where the real secrets lie

Well currently that skin & what's behind it lies somewhere at the bottom of the Pacific - up for grabs.

There is no such scientific term as stealth. What we have is a relative envelop of undetectibility. This is little dependant on aerdynamics.

...and its well documented in an old History Channel documentary on the Lockheed F-117 (Nighthawk).

Timestamp - 6:50

 

[araz]

1. Pakistan does not have any capacity, capability or knowledge to develop 5 Gen fighter to be very frank. Project AZM is nothing but a piece of paper sorry to say (Not undermining ourself but logically speaking we are nowhere in R&D of developing state-of-the-art weapon systems with high-performance applications). Even Turkey having long expertise in F16 still their 5Gen project is only on paper.

2. Anything coming from China will be the last bet for PAF in accordance to 5 Gen (most probably J31).

3. At first glance, J31 completely failed to attract audience because of its engines performance and also lack of interest by the Chinese AF in the aircraft afterwards.

4. China never make anything for Pakistan. They had zero interest in developing JF17 thunder (rather a testing platform or R&D purpose). Later when Pakistan officially jumps into the FC program (long story short our stupid AF think tanks wasted 1 and half decade to realized that the Americans are ******— looking for something cheaper to maintain and need something for a longer-run with no fear of sanctions, FC program was the last option at that time. When Pakistanis have shown interest into the FC program, then Chinese gotta hint okay we will help you to develop this to serve your needs else Chinese had zero interest.

5. J31 is again only designed and developed for the Chinese Air Force. If Pakistan need this, we should again become a part but we can’t modify from 2 X to 1 engine. The aircraft completely designed according to the core requirement of Chinese Airforce not for us or any third party technically.

6. Seems like platform design somehow close to F35 JSF, but the aircraft with two engines clearly shows they have something in their mind which is “carrier based naval platform” where you need power-pack machine for take-off and landing.

7. Again because of lack of interest by the PLAA, platform suffers a-lot. They want it but they’re not hurry... if Pakistan need it, we have to become a part of this project officially then might be Chinese will push this project faster...

I want to add a few comments to your post. Before I start please understand that my post is written from the Paklands perspective. I do not want to degrade the efforts of the Chinese friends but will consider facts as reported in Pak news media.
When the JFT project was being designed it was always thought that that the cooperation was on the basis of 50:50 investment and a commitment on the part of PLAAF to buy 250 units. The Chinese then reneged on the latter promise, but PAF continued with its drive to get an economical and effective fighter. To their credit our Chinese friends endured the constantly changing demands and additions by PAF, something which their seniors have alluded to in various articles available in open press. I do not want to go into the nitty gritties of why China backed out but understand that they made a logical decision based on their interests.
PAF in my view felt a bit hard done by this experience. However our cooperation has continued to go from strength to strength which has been good for both the sides.
Regarding the J31 it is still a prototype which requires funds to develop it to production stage. These funds can be variable depending on the amount of work needed and can go into Billions if one is not careful. PAF just does not have these funds. We want a workable solution which is ready for production, rather than an unfinished project, which we can get production rights for and modfy to our needs. This is where, in my humble opinion the political and economic wrangling is coming from. The Chinese want to utilize the experience from the J20 to finish the J31 but even then it is going to require a fair bit of money and they would like to get a partner to finish the project without utilizing their own resources. Whether they can find someone else who can do that and Support Paklands as a conduit for its supply remains to be seen. However anyone investing in a risky project would want a tangible product at the end of their negotiations which is ready for production not a "work in progress".
I suspect this along with the availability of the engine to drive the platform remain major bugbears. PAF will continue to watch the project carefully knowing fully well it has no other hope as the Turkish offering is not going to happen till mid 30s where as the Chinese can come up with a solution in late 20s which will be more affordable for PAF.
A

 

[LKJ86]

The Chinese want to utilize the experience from the J20 to finish the J31 but even then it is going to require a fair bit of money and they would like to get a partner to finish the project without utilizing their own resources. Whether they can find someone else who can do that and Support Paklands as a conduit for its supply remains to be seen. However anyone investing in a risky project would want a tangible product at the end of their negotiations which is ready for production not a "work in progress".
I suspect this along with the availability of the engine to drive the platform remain major bugbears. PAF will continue to watch the project carefully knowing fully well it has no other hope as the Turkish offering is not going to happen till mid 30s where as the Chinese can come up with a solution in late 20s which will be more affordable for PAF.
A

1. China mainly has two fighter manufacturers, SAC (J-11/15/16) and CAC (J-10/20), similar to USA's Boeing and Lockheed Martin.

2. FC-31 V1 and V2 are just the technology demonstrators of SAC to be free from Chinese Franker family fighters and compete with CAC in the future. And SAC is more interested in the orders from PLAAF and PLAN.

3. What China lacks is not fund, but time.

4. What PLAAF and PLAN need are not the same as what PAF needs. When FC-31 gets the orders from PLAAF or PLAN, it won't be another FC-1/JF-17 any more.

 

[araz]

1. China mainly has two fighter manufacturers, SAC (J-11/15/16) and CAC (J-10/20), similar to USA's Boeing and Lockheed Martin.

2. FC-31 V1 and V2 are just the technology demonstrators of SAC to be free from Chinese Franker family fighters and compete with CAC in the future. And SAC is more interested in the orders from PLAAF and PLAN.

3. What China lacks is not fund, but time.

4. What PLAAF and PLAN need are not the same as what PAF needs. When FC-31 gets the orders from PLAAF or PLAN, it won't be another FC-1/JF-17 any more.

You have responded to my post but please forgive me I have totally failed to see your point of view. If you could clarify whatcyou want to project then we can have a conversation. If it is a general remark then thank you for your contribution.
Regards
PS: Iam very aware of Chinese financial liquidity so understand that point. However from a purely business sense it is standard practice to ask for a partner to share research costs. The Chinese have so far not invested in F31 inspite of their financial liquidity.
A

 

[LKJ86]

You have responded to my post but please forgive me I have totally failed to see your point of view. If you could clarify whatcyou want to project then we can have a conversation. If it is a general remark then thank you for your contribution.
Regards
PS: Iam very aware of Chinese financial liquidity so understand that point. However from a purely business sense it is standard practice to ask for a partner to share research costs. The Chinese have so far not invested in F31 inspite of their financial liquidity.
A

Over 100 4.5/5th-generation fighters are builded for PLAAF and PLAN each year.
FC-31 is said to be J-35 and has got orders from PLAN.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Over 100 4.5/5th-generation fighters are builded for PLAAF and PLAN each year.
FC-31 is said to be J-35 and has got orders from PLAN.

Then FC 31 is not J 20?

 

[LKJ86]

Then FC 31 is not J 20?

What?

 

[mdmm]

Brother LKJ86.
Thank you very much brother for details.
Refreshing historical brotherhood between China and Pakistan..Pakistan was the first country to recognize PRC as a free country,Pakistan was first to vote for China in UNO.Pakistan PIA airline was first to land in China .
Pakistan does not have any capacity, capability or knowledge to develop 5 Gen fighter to be very frank.
So China must help Pakistan in technology and finance to buy/manufacture 5 Gen fighters.??

 

[araz]

Over 100 4.5/5th-generation fighters are builded for PLAAF and PLAN each year.
FC-31 is said to be J-35 and has got orders from PLAN.

Your figures and news need qualification. Firstly no one denies the Chinese prowess at building 4.5 gen jets. However to the best of my knowledge J20 if at all is in Low rate production. J31 has not had conformed orders from PLAAN. This is just a rumour ao far with nothing to prove beyond that. I am sure at some stage we will have some orders for J31 but to the best of my knowledge there are so far no confirmed orders for J31 which is why things have not progressed beyond 2 prototypes.
A

 

[Kabotar]

Your figures and news need qualification. Firstly no one denies the Chinese prowess at building 4.5 gen jets. However to the best of my knowledge J20 if at all is in Low rate production. J31 has not had conformed orders from PLAAN. This is just a rumour ao far with nothing to prove beyond that. I am sure at some stage we will have some orders for J31 but to the best of my knowledge there are so far no confirmed orders for J31 which is why things have not progressed beyond 2 prototypes.
A

I believe the bottleneck is engine and maybe PLAAF is fine tuning their doctrine on how to employ then fully. Once the engines are sorted out we might see production numbers similar to J10s. As far as J31 is concerned I think PLAAF is not interested so they might be working naval variant hoping to get PLAN to pay for development.

BTW when is PLAN hoping to induct flat top carriers? Cause that might give us a timeline.

 

[LKJ86]

Your figures and news need qualification. Firstly no one denies the Chinese prowess at building 4.5 gen jets. However to the best of my knowledge J20 if at all is in Low rate production. J31 has not had conformed orders from PLAAN. This is just a rumour ao far with nothing to prove beyond that. I am sure at some stage we will have some orders for J31 but to the best of my knowledge there are so far no confirmed orders for J31 which is why things have not progressed beyond 2 prototypes.
A

What I wanted to say is just that, what China lacks is not fund, but time.

Whether FC-31 gets orders from PLAN, it just depends on whether FC-31 can meet the needs of PLAN, or there is a better choice from CAC.

Besides, in China, no news is a good news.

PLAAF has got J-20, over 100 J-16, over 100 J-10C and 24 Su-35, but PLAN gets none of them. There are no more choices for PLAN.

 

[python-000]

What I wanted to say is just that, what China lacks is not fund, but time.

Whether FC-31 gets orders from PLAN, it just depends on whether FC-31 can meet the needs of PLAN, or there is a better choice from CAC.

Besides, in China, no news is a good news.

PLAAF has got J-20, over 100 J-16, over 100 J-10C and 24 Su-35, but PLAN gets none of them. There are no more choices for PLAN.

Pakistan must placed order for them least 2 to 3 sqd maybe China & Pakistan resolved this issue internally...

 

[Cool_Soldier]

PAF should also ask China for J-20 acquisition.
One Sqd can do the job for deep strike and AIR SUPERIORITY ROLE.

 

[araz]

What I wanted to say is just that, what China lacks is not fund, but time.

Whether FC-31 gets orders from PLAN, it just depends on whether FC-31 can meet the needs of PLAN, or there is a better choice from CAC.

Besides, in China, no news is a good news.

PLAAF has got J-20, over 100 J-16, over 100 J-10C and 24 Su-35, but PLAN gets none of them. There are no more choices for PLAN.

I dont think you have 100 J20s but the rest I agree with.
A

 

[LKJ86]

I dont think you have 100 J20s but the rest I agree with.
A

Who claimed that China has 100 J-20s already?