S-400 anti-aircraft missile systems delivery to India can begin in 2020

[dadeechi]

HQ-9 is comparable to the S-300. That is why they spent billions trying to buy S-400.

Correct it was based on S-300s but Chinese have improved the HQ-9s by a large margin. China is procuring S-400s to improve HQ-9s even further.

 

[PlugnPlay]

Correct it was based on S-300s but Chinese have improved the HQ-9s by a large margin. China is procuring S-400s to improve HQ-9s even further.

If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

Their failed attempt at selling this to Turkey tells you all that you need to know. As for their attempt at reverse engineering, Russia has already developed S-500 and it is likely that the delivery to India will incorporate elements of S-500 in it. That has always been the way with Indo-Russia partnership.

 

[Hassan Guy]

If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

Their failed attempt at selling this to Turkey tells you all that you need to know. As for their attempt at reverse engineering, Russia has already developed S-500 and it is likely that the delivery to India will incorporate elements of S-500 in it. That has always been the way with Indo-Russia partnership.

Not at all, HQ-9 is a very capable system.

 

[PlugnPlay]

Not at all, HQ-9 is a very capable system.

Maybe, but Turkey thought it was not worth their time and money.

 

[Michael Corleone]

Ok Chinese version is 3 billion. Indian version 6 billion and actual procurement won't be unveiled


Leave Pakistan what about Bangladesh. Russians believe this S400 system will save them for the next 15 years from the US. Mean while upgrading with S500. I don't see why rusi won't sell it it India or why India won't agfee

Is Bangladesh even going on a war with India? Or are they even buying s400... the talk here is about India and Pakistan.

 

[Hassan Guy]

Maybe, but Turkey thought it was not worth their time and money.

....Turkey is in Nato....

 

[#hydra#]

That is because India is in queue.

Russia would start delivering the Chinese S-400s starting in first quarter of 2017. India deliveries would start after Chinese ones are completed.



Pakistan would be procuring HQ-9s from China.

In many areas HQ-9 are currently said to equal or exceed performance of S-400s. China is procuring a limited number of S-400s to learn and improve in areas where S-400s have an advantage over HQ-9.

The end goal is to have HQ-9s exceed performance of S-400s in all areas in the next couple of years.

By the time India receives S-400s in 2020, Pakistan would be receiving HQ-9s which would have better performance than Indian S-400s.

So how iaf will breach that wall,that too with f16…

....Turkey is in Nato....

That says a lot,by being a NATO member can't go against the wishes of US. Same thing applied to India too...

@waz @PARIKRAMA @Oscar @Irfan Baloch
Pls merge this with sticky thread,sticky one has less popularity than this...

 

[dadeechi]

So how iaf will breach that wall,that too with f16…
...

Unfortunately there are not many solutions to tackle systems like S-400s and HQ-9s.

They could pretty much make Air & strategic assets a waste and turn Mutually Assured Destruction ( MAD) to Mutually Assured Survival (MAS) .

This is where Pakistan would start having an upper hand over India due to its vast experience in engaging in low intensity conflict/war using the non-state actors.

 

[#hydra#]

Unfortunately there are not many solutions to tackle systems like S-400s and HQ-9s.

They could pretty much make Air & strategic assets a waste and turn Mutually Assured Destruction ( MAD) to Mutually Assured Survival (MAS) .

This is where Pakistan would start having an upper hand over India due to its vast experience in engaging in low intensity conflict/war using the non-state actors.

May be low level penetration using platforms like su34s

 

[dadeechi]

May be low level penetration using platforms like su34s

Even RAFALEs would have tough time penetrating through HQ-9 defences.

India should heavily invest in UCAVs to minimize the human losses.

 

[MagicMarker]

The S400 India is buying is highly modified or we can say it is S450 which contains elements and missiles of S500 prometheus with Limited TOT and local manufacturing of several missiles, integration of Israeli radars and Indian Akash and Barak 8 Missiles. Later India will buy S500 for eastern borders. Earlier there were plans to buy 12 systems now they have changed the approach instead of buying out 12 S400 they will be buying 5 S450 system now and later shift to S500. Plus number of missiles are also more than what china has bought.

China's intentions are alway to copy the system so Russia does not provide them the latest versions whereas in India's case Russians know India will not cross them and offer the very latest and best ones which costs more.

Also Yassen class SSN and 2 Akulas are also coming so money has to stashed in other deals as nuclear subs are not tradeable.

Limited ToT and Local manufacturing ? Do you have any source ?

 

[The Eagle]

using the non-state actors.

@dadeechi Well, it's a two way street and we both know that so let's not derail the thread.

Rest about Turkey's attempt to purchase HQ-9 very much validates the quality of the system which is further upgraded as the time goes by and the deal was cancelled due to US/West/NATO pressure and not due to the performance as a new member is trying to imply.

 

[dani958]

The S400 India is buying is highly modified or we can say it is S450 which contains elements and missiles of S500 prometheus with Limited TOT and local manufacturing of several missiles, integration of Israeli radars and Indian Akash and Barak 8 Missiles. Later India will buy S500 for eastern borders. Earlier there were plans to buy 12 systems now they have changed the approach instead of buying out 12 S400 they will be buying 5 S450 system now and later shift to S500. Plus number of missiles are also more than what china has bought.

China's intentions are alway to copy the system so Russia does not provide them the latest versions whereas in India's case Russians know India will not cross them and offer the very latest and best ones which costs more.

Also Yassen class SSN and 2 Akulas are also coming so money has to stashed in other deals as nuclear subs are not tradeable.

s 400 dont come with russia radar?

 

[Hindustani78]

Maybe, but Turkey thought it was not worth their time and money.

Turkey being a NATO member state will not buy Chinese or Russian Air defenses.


By the way,
October 17, 2016
Interfax ru
15:33
China planning to build airport close to border with Primorye

 

[migflug]

Russia and India to collaborate on several billion dollars
Delhi is interested in Russian air defense systems, helicopters and light frigates
October 16 23:55

• Alexei Nikolsky
  
• / Vedomosti
• 3

Russian President Vladimir Putin and Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi
AP
Several major bilateral agreements in the sphere of military-technical cooperation were signed after talks held on Saturday Russian President Vladimir Putin with the prime minister of India Narendra Modi. The meeting took place in the margins of the past in the Indian state of Goa BRICS summit.

In particular, the sides signed an intergovernmental agreement, which paves the way for the conclusion of a contract for the supply of India's four battalions of antiaircraft missile systems of long-range S-400. Until now, this powerful system has been exported only to China - in 2014 a contract was signed for the supply of four divisions worth about $ 2 billion According to the editor-in-Moscow Defense Brief Mikhail Barabanov, formerly India actually ordered Israeli companies to develop anti-missile system large. range Barak 8 and a decision in favor of the Russian system could mean that Indians are not completely satisfied with the performance of Israeli products.

In addition, Moscow and New Delhi signed an intergovernmental agreement for the sale of India's four frigates of Project 11356 Earlier, India six frigates of this type were delivered, and in 2011 six more frigates commissioned in the Kaliningrad shipyard "Yantar" for the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Defense Ministry. Three frigates were built, but still have three, construction of which began, there were problems with the completion of the crisis in Ukraine - Ukrainian enterprise "Zorya-Mashproekt" refused to supply already paid for gas turbine propulsion systems for these ships. Eventually it was decided that for India, these settings will be set, with one ship will be completed in Russia, and the housing of other transported for completion in India (where it will be laid and the fourth frigate), the person said, close to the leadership of "Rosoboronexport". Such a scheme is responsible among other things the concept of Make in India aimed at enhancing the role of the Indian industry and is the official policy of the Government of Prime Minister Modi.

Against pressure
BRICS countries favor of decisive action in the fight against terrorism, but it does not accept "power policy of pressure in any form, infringing the sovereignty of other countries," Putin said after the summit.

But the real triumph of the concept of Make in India has become a three-way inter-company agreement to establish a joint venture in India to assemble light Ka-226T, signed by "Rosoboronexport", "Helicopters of Russia" and the Indian state-owned HAL. These helicopters for the needs of the Indian security forces will be assembled in India with the best possible localization of production, and the total number of cars produced could reach several hundred. According to the Russian Ministry of Industry and Trade, it is planned that the first 60 helicopters will be delivered from Russia and 140 - are produced at this new plant.

According to the person in the Russian defense industry, it was signed in Goa has long been discussed and an agreement on the transfer of India in leasing multipurpose nuclear submarine of project 971 from the Russian Navy, which it will pass repair and modernization. In 2007, India had already been transferred to the lease for $ 900 million unfinished nuclear submarine of this type of "Seal", received in the Indian Navy Chakra named in honor of the Soviet atomic project 670 boats, which the Soviet Union has been leased to India in 1988-1990.

According to the expert of the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies, Konstantin Makiyenko, even the signing of such agreements, which are not contracts, paves the way for implementation of the projects, the total cost of which is clearly in excess of $ 6 billion.

https://www.vedomosti.ru/politics/articles/2016/10/17/661178-rossiya-indiya-posotrudnichayut





Has the deal for nuk submarine been signed as per this article? Did we secretly signed an agreement in veil of frigate acquisition.@PARIKRAMA @Gessler @Abingdonboy