Russians better ally than Americans: Turkey may quit NATO

[Nefer]

While the majority of the Battles against the Germans were on the plains,
There were also mountain battles in Kaukausus.
Meanwhile, Turkey had few or no battle experienced troops at all.
How long would a Turk insurgency last, if Anatolia was colonized by Russians,
and zero presence of Turkish civilians?

Which mountain battles exactly. Because it looked more like an German evacuation after their original plan was compromised by the soviet army.

Turk Insurgency would last and hold the Russian back, because of the terrain advantage would be able to hold their own. We would not be able to hold the coastal cities. But beyond that. If Turkish War of Independence proved anything, is that the Turks are a resilient people. Besides Turkiye also benefited from Lend-Lease.

 

[kartal1]

No, Turkey kept on giving threats to Russia until Putin send his nuke sub deployed S400 and warned to shoot down any plane without warning .

Dont be so childish. S400 I understand but to use a nuclear weapons against one of the most important NATO members in 2016... the end is not going to be good because it will be the end of the world. I will not talk so childish and will not start the talk what was going to happen and what was happening with that S400 system in that period. We have "combat proven" sign on our Aselsan Koral EW system.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Which mountain battles exactly. Because it looked more like an German evacuation after their original plan was compromised by the soviet army.

Turk Insurgency would last and hold the Russian back, because of the terrain advantage would be able to hold their own. We would not be able to hold the coastal cities. But beyond that. If Turkish War of Independence proved anything, is that the Turks are a resilient people. Besides Turkiye also benefited from Lend-Lease.

There were no pitched battles like Kursk or Stalingrad, just fighting in the mountains of Kaukausus, where the German offensive was halted.

An insurgency, assumes that there are actually any people there to act as insurgents.
If Stalin invaded and did not ethnically cleanse Anatolia, then the situation would be different.

 

[Saithan]

TLR Too many brown nosing by some Pakistani members. If you weren't so dependant on Russia, China and partly the US, you'd learn to look for the hidden blade under the outstretched arm.

The west is not trustworthy, and that includes Russia, China. All you have to do is see how these countries foreign policy are built. How they behave towards countries they're less friendly with.

Russia cutting Natural gas delivery to Ukraine is just one recent example (not to mention invasion of Crim). And see how slow the world is reacting, so no, leaving NATO isn't the best option for Turkey. Besides the article is from a pov by a retired general. And as some of you may know the Turkish generals has either been for west or for east (meaning Russia or China) in their preference. Which is why they don't get to make political decisions.

If you wish to listen and promote someones comments then retired chief of TSK Ilker Basbug would be a better choice.

 

[Nefer]

There were no pitched battles like Kursk or Stalingrad, just fighting in the mountains of Kaukausus, where the German offensive was halted.

An insurgency, assumes that there are actually any people there to act as insurgents.
If Stalin invaded and did not ethnically cleanse Anatolia, then the situation would be different

For the first one, I would like to have some reports about that so I can look into it.

For the second, That was a poor choice of words. What I actually meant that as the Turkish Armed Forces would relocate to a more suitable position because of the superior naval power of the Russian Fleet and thus have to evacuate the coastal cities. The civilians would also leave which would only keep some locals who are unwilling to leave and would take arms and do hit and run tactics. In this scenario, USSR still not into Anatolia.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

For the first one, I would like to have some reports about that so I can look into it.

For the second, That was a poor choice of words. What I actually meant that as the Turkish Armed Forces would relocate to a more suitable position because of the superior naval power of the Russian Fleet and thus have to evacuate the coastal cities. The civilians would also leave which would only keep some locals who are unwilling to leave and would take arms and do hit and run tactics. In this scenario, USSR still not into Anatolia.

Look for Operation Edelweiss. Not a lot of info, but Germans were close to the border of current Georgia, before they had to retreat due to the situation in Stalingrad.

Locals, unwilling to leave would be rounded up and deported in the scenario I envision.

 

[Nefer]

Look for Operation Edelweiss. Not a lot of info, but Germans were close to the border of current Georgia, before they had to retreat due to the situation in Stalingrad.

Locals, unwilling to leave would be rounded up and deported in the scenario I envision.

So confirming what I said, Germans had to evacuate the area because of a disruption in their plans. Which does not mean that the Russians were successful at combating the germans in the mountains.

those locals would again send their wife and children to the east which would be under protection of the Turkish Armed Forces. those who wants to fight would not be easy to find. At this point in time I think that the indiscriminate killings of the Greek Forces from when they attacked and occupied the west of Turkey would be fresh in their memories and so it would be a kill or be killed situation.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

So confirming what I said, Germans had to evacuate the area because of a disruption in their plans. Which does not mean that the Russians were successful at combating the germans in the mountains.

those locals would again send their wife and children to the east which would be under protection of the Turkish Armed Forces. those who wants to fight would not be easy to find. At this point in time I think that the indiscriminate killings of the Greek Forces from when they attacked and occupied the west of Turkey would be fresh in their memories and so it would be a kill or be killed situation.

Before the retreat, the advance more or less ground to a halt.

It is very different fighting insurgents in the middle of a civilian population
compared to when the very existence of a person, makes him a target.

 

[TMA]

TLR Too many brown nosing by some Pakistani members. If you weren't so dependant on Russia, China and partly the US, you'd learn to look for the hidden blade under the outstretched arm.

The west is not trustworthy, and that includes Russia, China. All you have to do is see how these countries foreign policy are built. How they behave towards countries they're less friendly with.

Russia cutting Natural gas delivery to Ukraine is just one recent example (not to mention invasion of Crim). And see how slow the world is reacting, so no, leaving NATO isn't the best option for Turkey. Besides the article is from a pov by a retired general. And as some of you may know the Turkish generals has either been for west or for east (meaning Russia or China) in their preference. Which is why they don't get to make political decisions.

If you wish to listen and promote someones comments then retired chief of TSK Ilker Basbug would be a better choice.

Russia did not invade Crimea. There was an illegal coup in Kiev backed by the US and in response to this illegal coup the Crimeans decided to join Russia and Russia obliged them. This is slightly different to an invasion...

 

[Saithan]

Russia did not invade Crimea. There was an illegal coup in Kiev backed by the US and in response to this illegal coup the Crimeans decided to join Russia and Russia obliged them. This is slightly different to an invasion...

So an uprising that made the corrupt president run away is deemed an illegal coup. But it doesn't change that Russia in this case is an aggressor and untrustworthy no matter how you Pakistanis choose to cut it.

If Russia decided to give Kashmir to India, how would you feel about it ?

 

[TMA]

Haha lol, people who say Russia is a trustworthy ally is retard and has 0 knowledge of history or international relations.

Better still better than the US...

 

[Saithan]

I think the important thing here is, like I pointed out, neither is good for our region. The lesser evil here would still be the US.

Crim to annexed because of it's military importance to Russia.

 

[TMA]

So an uprising that made the corrupt president run away is deemed an illegal coup. But it doesn't change that Russia in this case is an aggressor and untrustworthy no matter how you Pakistanis choose to cut it.

If Russia decided to give Kashmir to India, how would you feel about it ?

You are missing the point.
1. Irrespective of corrupt President or not, it was an illegal coup backed by a foreign power.
2. The people of Crimea, to whom Crimea belongs to first before Kiev or another part of Ukraine, decided against this illegal coup...
3. ... and decided to join the Russian Federation.
4. Russia accepted this.

Now has Kashmir ASKED Russia please give me away to Bharat?

Do you see the point?? The people of Crimea decided against this illegal coup and WANTED to join Russia.
Shall I repeat this?

 

[Nefer]

Before the retreat, the advance more or less ground to a halt.

It is very different fighting insurgents in the middle of a civilian population
compared to when the very existence of a person, makes him a target.

But you kind of expect that to happen, before a retreat. I'd imagine that the supplies would were started to get overstretched or maybe they could not spare the supplies for the mountain assault since it was needed elsewhere because of the soviet push back. Logistics plays a very big role here

That would only bother governments who actually care about the civilian populations. Which is not Russia, they probably would want to waste ammo 24/7 to rout out the combatants who are left in the cities, but they probably wont. And in comparison with wartime they won't be getting free materials for new munitions(since lend lease ended)
In this scenario where Coastal cities are evacuated so there are no non-combatants left. the combatants/militias would have the advantage of terrain and will always have the first imitative and finding hit and runners is difficult on its own, specially in that era. If the Russians would ignore that and foolishly attack deeper in Anatolia, their supply lines would be hit.

 

[Saithan]

You are missing the point.
1. Irrespective of corrupt President or not, it was an illegal coup backed by a foreign power.
2. The people of Crimea, to whom Crimea belongs to first before Kiev or another part of Ukraine, decided against this illegal coup...
3. ... and decided to join the Russian Federation.
4. Russia accepted this.

Now has Kashmir ASKED Russia please give me away to Bharat?

Do you see the point?? The people of Crimea decided against this illegal coup and WANTED to join Russia.
Shall I repeat this?

it's funny how you ignore that quite a many in crim boycotted the voting/referendum, and also would be considered illegal under the circumstances.

I need not even remind you of how fast Russia annexed crim.

here educate yourself. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annex..._Russian_Federation#Crimean_status_referendum