Russian team holds talks on sale of military hardware

[Sully3]

Am i the only one who sees the elephant in the room, which some Indians posters seem to over look.

Russia was Indias biggest defence partner for decades, Now its very obvious that alongside Israel, India is going to be the top USA military hardware buyer.
So how did Russia counter the ? by making more defence deals with China and adding more markets such as Pakistan and the new kid on the block Iran.

If Russia gets Pakistan as well as Iran onboard along with already having China as a massive military hardware buyer it is able to cut its looses that India will cause by switching to American Hardware.

Russia is about to be a big player in South Asia

 

[waz]

I'm counting the posts till the SU-35 is mentioned, oh it's already happened. .
The sale is probably regarding the attack helicopters, armoured infantry vehicles etc.

 

[nangyale]

What the Indian members tend to forget is that defence deals are not just about the dollar amount, they are also about alliances and potential.

At present Pakistan offer more better potential to Russia with Gawadar and CPEC than India, which is moving more towards the US and is thus becoming ever less inviting for Russia.

 

[Sully3]

What the Indian members tend to forget is that defence deals are not just about the dollar amount, they are also about alliances and potential.

At present Pakistan offer more better potential to Russia with Gawadar and CPEC than India, which is moving more towards the US and is thus becoming ever less inviting for Russia.

Truth be told it is a massive stab in the back the way India is switching its military hardware purchases to USA, after getting decades of support from Russia, be it diplomatically or be the top of the line fighters Russia has been supplying India with for the decades.

 

[Quwa]

Am i the only one who sees the elephant in the room, which some Indians posters seem to over look.

Russia was Indias biggest defence partner for decades, Now its very obvious that alongside Israel, India is going to be the top USA military hardware buyer.
So how did Russia counter the ? by making more defence deals with China and adding more markets such as Pakistan and the new kid on the block Iran.

If Russia gets Pakistan as well as Iran onboard along with already having China as a massive military hardware buyer it is able to cut its looses that India will cause by switching to American Hardware.

Russia is about to be a big player in South Asia

Thank you for raising this point. India being a $200bn market is irrelevant if Indian policymakers themselves are gunning for U.S, French and Israeli equipment. The IL-214 is going ahead without India and the FGFA is unclear at best.

This is not to say that Pakistan is suddenly an alternative, it isn't, not until it is in command of its economic situation. Debt servicing is taking a toll on our ability to set aside money for big ticket acquisitions, so a supplier like Russia would need to offer a line of credit or term financing, which is a risky bet with no short-term payoffs.

On other hand, Russia showing goodwill today (in terms of lower margins and flexible financing) could be seen as an investment, for when Pakistan does become economically better off, it'd have Russia in its favoured graces for new acquisitions.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Truth be told it is a massive stab in the back the way India is switching its military hardware purchases to USA, after getting decades of support from Russia, be it diplomatically or be the top of the line fighters Russia has been supplying India with for the decades.

Truth be told, this is what happens when you delay and go over expected cost of a carrier, not giving steel for home made IAC, getting a fit after putting an AC in T90 initially, not to mention not giving armor or barrel tech for it. I guess they were getting a little happy with the monopoly they had in India. If any other supplier want to play these games, they also can lose contracts.

 

[dadeechi]

With India moving more towards Western equipment (US, UK, France Israel, Japan, South Korea etc) the amount of money available for any Russia equipment has drastically come down.

What is important is not the size of the total defense budgets but the amounts of Defense spends by India & Pakistan on Russian equipment.

India still can spend more than what Pakistan can spend on Russian equipment but due to the decreased spend, it can no longer influence the non sale of Russian equipment to Pakistan.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Quite a wild card , scenario

We do need 5th Generation plane
Helicopters
Cooperation on Tanks research
SAMs

Would be interesting to see how the collaboration will enhance via trade and discussion

 

[Super Falcon]

Why u cant handle SU 35 u were same guys in 2009 never agreed pak and russia ever be friend good for us ur denial mood will one day benefit us

yeah su 35 lol

And remember russia not giving india S 400 when entire india jumping for modi last month visit

Mr Nair india only have money but stretegic depth lies in with pak russia will gain more customers via pak arab nations dont worry they still have that pie

Stretegic depth is important and russia is not living on your money dont forget china so MR NAIR i suggest accept reality russia policy has changed accept it or not once russia listned to u untill 2012 now why after ur pressure it still signed MI 35 deal i know it is not a big deal but when india oppose JF 17 with lanka why not in mi 35 case

But the hard reality Pakistan is not a 200 billion$ defence market like India's ,your key board effect wont change that fact .I replied in this post because you tried to compare Indian business with little paltry business of Pakistan .A single deal with India worth billion of dollars are far better than the a thousand soft loan deals with Pakistan .
IF they try to intimidate us they will lose deals again.We have money , a powerful diplomacy a thriving economy and fast developing technologies .Any way we will eventually develop our own weapons and replace foreigners with that until then we will invite all good companies in this world .All of them including Russia's can participate ,show case good systems and will get good deals .

 

[mingle]

I'm counting the posts till the SU-35 is mentioned, oh it's already happened. .
The sale is probably regarding the attack helicopters, armoured infantry vehicles etc.

According to Pshamim PDF talks about Mi 28 attack helis .Not sure how many kind of attack helis PAA lookng for chines ,Russian US french ?

 

[GriffinsRule]

I dont get the stupid arguments Indians post about being a bigger market for Russia hence their ability to stop them from selling to Pakistan. The reality is quite the opposite. It is the Indians that cant survive without Russian armaments and help. 90% of their AF, Army and Navy are based on Russian supplies and there is no way they could survive by threatening to cutoff Russian as their arms dealer. If tomorrow, PAF or PA buys any significant weapon system from the Russians, the best Indians can do it moan and complain about it but the ground realities that they need Russians for spares to keep their armed forces running is only lost on the Indian forum posters.

 

[mourning sage]

I dont get the stupid arguments Indians post about being a bigger market for Russia hence their ability to stop them from selling to Pakistan. The reality is quite the opposite. It is the Indians that cant survive without Russian armaments and help. 90% of their AF, Army and Navy are based on Russian supplies and there is no way they could survive by threatening to cutoff Russian as their arms dealer. If tomorrow, PAF or PA buys any significant weapon system from the Russians, the best Indians can do it moan and complain about it but the ground realities that they need Russians for spares to keep their armed forces running is only lost on the Indian forum posters.

The arguments may be stupid but the Indians are pretty damn good at veiling them as legitimate reasons. You see, it works both ways, if India can not survive without Russian help, Russia can not survive without constant multi billion dollar injections into their economy by the Indians.

Do the Lankans or Nepalese depend on the Indians? No, they are independent and sovereign states but India has a way of black mailing them and force them into doing things that might go against their own national interests. Had our foreign policy makers had any vision and sense, we would have countered Indian influence, but we haven't and India goes on to enjoy the unlimited confidence of the international community, something that will take Pakistan several decades to build.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

I dont get the stupid arguments Indians post about being a bigger market for Russia hence their ability to stop them from selling to Pakistan. The reality is quite the opposite. It is the Indians that cant survive without Russian armaments and help. 90% of their AF, Army and Navy are based on Russian supplies and there is no way they could survive by threatening to cutoff Russian as their arms dealer. If tomorrow, PAF or PA buys any significant weapon system from the Russians, the best Indians can do it moan and complain about it but the ground realities that they need Russians for spares to keep their armed forces running is only lost on the Indian forum posters.

No one said India doesnt need Russia for spare parts, but they will keep losing multi billion dollar contracts if they keep playing some games. And if they want to make spare parts difficult even, then the trend can continue. Of late they've been losing left and right. Even they recently lost to S. Korea in the K9 thunder deal.

And it doesnt matter to me if Russia sells Pak anything. You're going to get something one way or another, from who ever. Currently, you're latching on to China, as India did with the USSR/Russia.

 

[Wolf]

It’s a game for sure even a win win situation by visiting Pakistan they will get two benefits confuse India (Indian will worry they may lose good supplier) and if India still prefer French Jets then a possible new customer already in pocket.

If French deal signed with India, i am quite sure we will soon see SU-35 and some other nice stuff in our inventory.

You are absolutely right but i am afraid our paf top brass love for F 16s will end up depriving Pakistan from both F 16 and Su 35s. Instead of relying on americans, just strike su 35 deal ASAP with Russians and dont keep Russians guessing meaning stop playing games with Russia for the sake of US.

Furthermore, Su 35s deal means we can get 2 squadrons of SU 35s in 2 billion dollars against F -16s deal which we will get half squadron i.e. 8 planes for 1.5 billion dollars. A better option will be to strike 5 squadron deal consisting of 4-5 billion dollars spread over a period of 3 years. Another advantage will be that we may secure further deals like Armata and S - 400 through SU 35 deal. The Russia will be guaranteed in Pakistan favour if we increase our trade volume with Russia to more than 10 billion dollars. Recent LNG deal is a good start.

Bottom line for Pakistan, Go Russia.

 

[jupiter2007]

It's Mi-35 and some other hardware......

I would love to see Su-35 in PAF.