Russia Signs Landmark Military Cooperation Agreement With Pakistan

[IndoUS]

I think the most important thing is that it's just the beginning. Who cares if they're only Mi-35s? That's not the point. A huge taboo has been broken. Can anyone here imagine Russia selling *any* kind of military equipment to Pakistan even 10 years ago? Essentially, Russia has realized India is no longer as loyal as it once was and Russia is paying that "loyalty" back in kind.

Who says Mi-28s won't be sold to Pakistan down the road? If I were an Indian, I would most definitely be concerned at this development.

You do know that Russia already sells equipment to Pakistan right.

 

[AgentOrange]

You do know that Russia already sells equipment to Pakistan right.

But not complete weapons systems as far as I know.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

You do know that Russia already sells equipment to Pakistan right.

Not really not in the past .. Although they did offer us mig-29 n SU-27 in the 90s (after the collapse of USSR) but that's history .. Infact Russians even tried to stop Ukranians from selling us T-80s.. And that's how we got UD's with T-84 turret,gun and other sub systems ...

 

[IndoUS]

But not complete weapons systems as far as I know.

Yes, but even the Mi35 is now decades old. when during the original deal, the Russians were quick to come to India to assure them of this sale, so not much to do with it, since even India itself is retiring these from service.

 

[IndoUS]

Not really not in the past .. Although they did offer us mig-29 n SU-27 in the 90s (after the collapse of USSR) but that's history .. Infact Russians even tried to stop Ukranians from selling us T-80s.. And that's how we got UD's with T-84 turret,gun and other sub systems ...

Didn't Pakistan use version of T55 tanks or were they Chinese versions?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Didn't Pakistan use version of T55 tanks or were they Chinese versions?

Type 59Ms.. They were latter modified chinese variants .. (Which we ended producing under ToT).. Few years ago POF also produced AKs .. Apparently the Russians went ape shit over that aswell..

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Yes, but even the Mi35 is now decades old. when during the original deal, the Russians were quick to come to India to assure them of this sale, so not much to do with it, since even India itself is retiring these from service.

There is helluva difference between mi-25s produced in the 80s and Mi-35Ms (latest variant) in service with Brazil,Indonesia etc..

 

[IndoUS]

There is helluva difference between mi-25s produced in the 80s and Mi-35Ms (latest variant) in service with Brazil,Indonesia etc..

Yes, but still old frame, which most countries are retiring, it would have been ideal to go directly for the Havoc which would have given a much better punch, unless these would simply be used by spec ops for coin situation.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Yes, but still old frame, which most countries are retiring, it would have been ideal to go directly for the Havoc which would have given a much better punch, unless these would simply be used by spec ops for coin situation.

Old airframe? Lol do you even know what you are talking about ? An old frame is the one that has been in service since decades .. These MI-35Ms are brand new ... And yes they offer much more capabilities than their previous gens..

As for the question why Pak bought em?... For CT operations against the Taliban ... To insert troops/SF and provide cover at the same time... For ex .. In Swat,Peochar heights Pak army under took the largest heliborne operation of recent times .. Landing SSG guys on Taliban captured mountains ... (Who sobs were dug in)... And to land the operators we had to provide cover from Cobras while the MIs landed them... Now imagine a 35 landing soldiers/commandos and providing cover a the same time.. Ideal solution for us... Specially in the terrain we are conducting operations..

And as Penguin pointed out even during war helis don't "fight" with helis rather they are there to support the ground troops or armoured vehicles .. Which the new 35M is quiet capable of.. And who knows PA might buy T-129 latter (considering they are only buying 20 MI-35s.... And t-129 is not under production)... To replace the 54-55 Cobras?.. Which are supplimented by a SQD of fennecs..

 

[AgentOrange]

Yes, but still old frame, which most countries are retiring, it would have been ideal to go directly for the Havoc which would have given a much better punch, unless these would simply be used by spec ops for coin situation.

For Pakistan, terrorism is more of an immediate threat than Indian armored formations so the Mi-35s make sense both from a tactical and financial perspective. But as many articles have mentioned, the Russian embargo on Pakistan is effectively over and Pakistan will probably have as much access to Russia technology as India.

 

[IndoUS]

For Pakistan, terrorism is more of an immediate threat than Indian armored formations so the Mi-35s make sense both from a tactical and financial perspective. But as many articles have mentioned, the Russian embargo on Pakistan is effectively over and Pakistan will probably have as much access to Russia technology as India.

Yes, but the issue is whether this would be a welcome case for China and US. Since US provides military aid to Pakistan, and this would bring competition for China, which has undisputed advantage in Pakistani arms market.

 

[asad71]

Yes, but the issue is whether this would be a welcome case for China and US. Since US provides military aid to Pakistan, and this would bring competition for China, which has undisputed advantage in Pakistani arms market.

On the contrary, both will appreciate a break in the Indo-Russian chain.

 

[IndoUS]

On the contrary, both will appreciate a break in the Indo-Russian chain.

India will be stuck with Russia for a long time since the FGFA deal would be going for a good part of the next 25 years of service. Then there is the whole deal with tanks, where Russian armored vehicles make up a majority of India's armored division. Then most of current fighter aircraft in Indian inventory are still Russian, with MKIs being the backbone of the fleet, and this is going to repeat with the FGFA or until India is capable enough to make something that can match the MKI or the Mig-29. Then we move to the naval side, the only section where India has somewhat success and is moving away from Russian dominance, but still a lot a equipment still comes from Russia, which is steadily being replaced by either homebuilt system or systems that we have developed with JV with Israel. So for the possible half century India would still be a huge market for Russia, now it depends on Russia if it wants to keep its market which is the world largest or lose it to possible European counterparts. I am not going to add US in this list simply because of the distrust and string attached to offensive equipment that come with the deal, so US would be mostly used as a source for transport aircraft such as the C-130 or C-17, but other than that I don't see Indo-US defense deals expanding much,considering most of the deals are scraped with the US by the current government. The only real contender to Russian arms would be Israel, which have been steadily chipping at Russian sales with their tech JV.

Now I highly doubt Russia would be happy with China's expanding military sales, since it is directly in competition with its own, and their market are basically the same. So this would hurt Russia eve more, if they somehow completely manage to pissoff India it would a huge loss to them financially since India is a major buyer of their weapons, and China won't replace that since they have their defense industry which is becoming self reliant day by day, and won't need much of Russian assistance anymore, then the question would be, can Pakistan financially match India's defense deal with Russia, as a possible replacement and would China allow such deals considering Pakistan is a major buyer of Chinese weapons and aircraft.

 

[SrNair]

Good one.Russia finally understand India playing double game with them.India have hurt Russia very badly by purchasing French Rafale instead of Russian fighters.

Lol
Russian-Indian relation is still stronger than you can imagine.A mere pact and 20 helis not gonne change that or in other means Pakistan cant offer a large arms market like we have.

 

[SrNair]

Good Chance of entering into Pakistan weapon market by Russia, hope India could sleep tight at night.

Our one single deal for is around 30-50 billion$ worth.A mere pact and 20 helis is not anissue for us.
FYI our relation with Russia is still strong.